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I find it weird that we accept the fact that we're allegedly the world hyperpower, and the Taliban are the ones giving all the orders. If we're being honest, this hasn't been the case for the last 10-15 years. Whether you use the term unipolar or "sole remaining superpower (haven't heard the term hyperpower used before) the US is no longer the single most dominant country across the entire globe anymore. Spending 20 years pissing away our blood, sweat, and treasure in places like Afghanistan and Iraq hasn't helped matters on this front at all (China has caught up and even surpassed us in many ways). Whether you agree with it or not, the USA decided to accept a negotiated settlement to get out of this war. The Taliban won (terrible on the tongue to say but true) and as such they're getting to dictate certain things. I find it weird that the withdrawal was planned in such an appallingly catastrophic fashion. Agreed, though the really difficult part for me to accept is how CENTCOM seemed so unprepared. CENTOM's staff is enormous, especially compared to some other COCOMs. CENTCOM also has more given/delegated authorities than any other COCOM. How did they not adequately plan for this and not see it coming. Did we as a military refuse to believe that Afghanistan would fall so quickly? After 10-15 years of "just give us another year, we'll turn the tide" etc etc, were we truly unable to see that the thing we invested 20 years worth of effort in would collapse so quickly? I find it weird that the administration was absolutely obsessed with meeting some meaningless deadline. Agreed, the arbitrary withdrawal date unfortunately accelerated the dicknannagans seen at the end. I find it weird that no one can seem to nail down how many Americans were in Afghanistan, how many were airlifted, and how many were truly left behind. This doesn't surprise me at all. Ever been part of a NEO? It's actually very difficult for State to track all the American citizens present in any country all the time. If they don't register with the Embassy and aren't part of any US government presence it's pretty hard to keep track of all American's in any country, especially a third world, limited comms shithole like Afghanistan that's collapsing on itself. Any number the US government comes up with is unfortunately always going to have a median associated with it. I find it weird that the Taliban allegedly offered us the opportunity to police and secure Kabul, and we said, "No thanks." I don't find this weird at all (I'm also honestly skeptical that this is even true). I'm not a ground guy, but how many troops do you think it would take to secure a city the size of Kabul? It took 5,000 just to secure the airport. 20-40,000 is my guess. How long would it take us to get that many troops in place. Sure isn't going to happen in a couple days. And then what? The Afghan government had already collapsed and fled. What are we going to do once our people are out? Try to install a new government? Give the keys to the Taliban? Continue to secure a large city where all the government workers are streaming for the exit while a massive humanitarian crisis brews? And what level of casualties would we have been willing to accept to make that happen? I find it weird that leaving any number of Americans behind is acceptable to this administration. Agreed, though see my 4th comment above. There was probably always still going to be some American still on the ground after the last C-17 was wheels up. Additionally, this isn't the first time Americans have been left behind in a conflict and, also unfortunately, probably won't be the last. I find it weird that so little effort was made to disable or destroy the military hardware left behind. I don't find this weird. We de-mil'ed the big ticket stuff (helicopters. airplanes) that were still in our control. Stuff they captured after the ANA folded like HUMMVEEs, MRAPs, the one UH-60 will be broken down and unserviceable within a year or sooner (my Army friends have gotten some good chuckles out of them parading that stuff around). Another 20,000 captured M-4s isn't going make the Taliban more or less capable. And honestly what was/is the alternative? Tank plink every captured vehicle, potentially inside cities surrounded by civilians? Keep the war going to destroy material that won't be usable soon anyway? The only way to truly make sure nothing was left to the Taliban would have been to either keep the war going or to never equip the ANA in the first place. I find it weird that we seemingly made so little effort to prioritize American evacuees ahead of Afghanis. Agreed, though I think some of the efforts to retrieve Americans was kept out the media/conducted clandestinely. BLUF is it was a planning failure and could/should have been done better. I find it weird that a presidential administration could survive this calamity. This has been one of the oddest talking points I've seen kicked around in the media and on social media since this withdrawal started going pear shaped. No US presidential administration has collapsed/resigned for a large military failure, attack, or loss of life since the transformation of the US into a global power. FDR didn't resign after Pearl Harbor. Truman didn't resign after the US forces in Korea were almost wiped out around Busan. JFK didn't resign after the Bay of Pigs. Ford didn't resign after Saigon and the SS Mayaguez incident (US Marines were left behind there). Carter didn't resign after Desert One. Reagan didn't resign after the Beirut barracks bombing. Clinton didn't resign after Mogadishu. Bush didn't resign after 9-11. Obama didn't resign after Benegazi. Trump didn't resign after Niger (admittedly those last two were smaller in scope, loss of life, and consequences on the world stage then some of the others I mentioned). BLUF is that there's a way things like this have been handled by the American people and government the past 75 years; its every four years at the ballot box. I find it weird that the administration claims they had no inkling the AFG government would collapse in this manner, but that is constantly being proven false. Agreed. Once again, were we truly unable to admit we had failed. Were we lying to ourselves? I find it weird that the President told the press we are not leaving until every American who wants to leave is airlifted, and today...meh. What can you do? Americans are stranded overseas all the time. Agreed, the flip-flopping of positions on this has been wrong and is bad. I find it weird (no offense meant) that people like you think there is nothing weird about all of this. As terrible as the last couple weeks have been, and as hard as it's been for me personally to start thinking about the fact that I'm going to be a veteran of a lost war, I don't think the sky is falling. Our allies aren't magically going to align themselves with Russia or China. The US economy isn't going to collapse from this loss. The US isn't going to fall into civil war or revolution over this. I've said it previously in this thread, moving forward, we (the US military) need to conduct a brutal debrief and maybe grow a generation of officers that will do everything in their collective power to stop us from ever getting involved in a war like this again.

I hope stories like Scheller's gets thrown back in the faces of the current government come midterms. Not saying that he should be free from consequence, but like, really? Generals patting themselves on the back for "the best airlift operation since Berlin" while court-martialing an FGO for daring to question their integrity? It's genuinely disgraceful, no matter how you slice it. If some generals owned up to it, took accountability, and resigned, and then Scheller got court-martialed anyways, I would think it would be more justified. But this? Absolutely disgraceful. It seems like to get a bird or stars, you have to turn in your balls first.

Carter was always honorable and tried to do the right thing. Joe Biden is and has always been a thug. Look at any number of videos insulting people, losing his temper, lying or just talking like he is out of the slums of Philly. Joe will resign at a time and place dictated by his handlers. I am more disappointed that Austin and Miley haven’t resigned yet. Perhaps they are being pulled by the same puppet strings.

I find it weird that we accept the fact that we're allegedly the world hyperpower, and the Taliban are the ones giving all the orders. I find it weird that the withdrawal was planned in such an appallingly catastrophic fashion. I find it weird that the administration was absolutely obsessed with meeting some meaningless deadline. I find it weird that no one can seem to nail down how many Americans were in Afghanistan, how many were airlifted, and how many were truly left behind. I find it weird that the Taliban allegedly offered us the opportunity to police and secure Kabul, and we said, "No thanks." I find it weird that leaving any number of Americans behind is acceptable to this administration. I find it weird that so little effort was made to disable or destroy the military hardware left behind. I find it weird that we seemingly made so little effort to prioritize American evacuees ahead of Afghanis. I find it weird that a presidential administration could survive this calamity. I find it weird that the administration claims they had no inkling the AFG government would collapse in this manner, but that is constantly being proven false. I find it weird that the President told the press we are not leaving until every American who wants to leave is airlifted, and today...meh. What can you do? Americans are stranded overseas all the time. I find it weird (no offense meant) that people like you think there is nothing weird about all of this.

This headline about sums up the entire thing

At this point I'm not sure whether there will be any resignations among the top brass. Several of the retired ones (McMaster and Petreaus specifically) associated with Afghanistan general officer leadership aren't currently taking any responsibility publicly. Right now the narrative seems to be "we did our duty, served honorably, if anyone's to blame its our civilian leadership" (the last part isn't being said openly by the active duty guys). There's probably an element of truth to this but in my opinion its far from the complete story. Interesting book to read on the evolution of American generalship since WWII is The Generals by Thomas Ricks. The book only covers US Army generals and Ricks has some serious bias against the US military in many ways but its a very good read. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on what he has to say regarding US military senior leadership but I found it to be a pretty well researched and written study.

Got the email from my boss a scant 24 hours after that pesky Afghanistan thing closed up that it’s now time to get the vaccine or get paperwork. Ah, morale. Good stuff.

Lots of great insights, Dirk. I think where we will agree to disagree is: 1. I suspect this will hurt our long-term national security more than we want to admit. Securing the cooperation of NATO partners and regional partners in peacekeeping operations and small-to-mid-scale conflicts is going to be more challenging. This was a truly embarrassing sequence of events, and our friends and allies are giving us a well-deserved WTF. Can you imagine trying to depose the next Saddam or Al Qaeda? "Hey! Who's with us? France? Brits? Canada? C'mon everybody! Follow us! Guys? Hello?" 2. I harbor no illusions a president will ever resign (unless the impeachment votes are there). But I do wonder how catastrophic something can be before Senators and Congressmen gently nudge a president out the door. 3. I certainly don't expect our government to know exactly where every American is or was in a place like AFG, but if you followed the numbers coming from the administration, it was borderline absurd. How many Americans were there in mid-August? 4,000? 8,000? 12,000? Who the heck knows? 4. I don't believe this failure is comparable to Pearl Harbor, or Desert One, or Beirut, or any of the others. So many of those were diabolical surprise attacks, or immediate, short-term military setbacks. AFG was such a series of appalling failures that it's little wonder the conservative blogosphere is half-jokingly accusing the administration of working directly for China. This was simply horrible. In the end, though, history never seems to follow that predictable, logical arc we expect it to.

Cool, they should also charge an extra $200 for anyone with a BMI > 25, to keep it equitable. And if they were truly genuine, they should probably charge $400 for BMI > 30, which probably accounts for 50% of their workforce

The Aussies have gone off the deep end WRT COVID. Airline crew laying over in SYD are literally escorted to their hotel rooms by armed guards. The country mishandled vaccine rollout badly and has no viable plan to open its economy back up anytime within the next year. People there were lulled into a false sense of security by low case loads pre-delta. Now that Delta is running rampant, they’re shocked by their own lack of planning.

Scary stuff.

Please stop quoting the window licking moron. It defeats me blocking him.

Point taken. I'm not trying to be adversarial; you are correct that this was always going to be a horrific band-aid to tear off. But holy sh!t. This did not have to be like this.

Strange how Biden claims he had to go forward with the “previous agreement” from the last administration…and yet at the same time has changed many other agreements/policies set by the last administration…it’s almost as if it’s all political, on both sides. But since Biden is in charge, Biden owns it since he could have went a number of different ways. This is coming from someone who supported the pullout, just not the horrible execution.

I heard they're hiring Nav's......

Actually firing the Sq/CC seems even more over the top. It's not that unusual for a next level CC to disagree or even step in. Firing a CC because of it is pretty questionable. I can attest that as a Sq/CC I was a little close the bros and may not have always had the full objectivity. My OG never stepped in, but then I probably never had that crisis moment where one of my buds stepped in a really, really big pile. As an OG I did have to step in and direct a court martial when the Sq/CC had trouble pulling the trigger. I treated it more as a mentoring moment than a firing offense. After it was all over the Sq/CC admitted the charge was clearly warranted (absolute felony), but he just had a hard time because it was one of his own. I sat him down with a scotch and cigar and lamented that this was the hard part about command, and eventually he'd grow into his big boy pants. That said, I usually just stayed out of Sq business -- their time to lead.

Here's a picture of crew members volunteering to go make craters over there.

Well, it sounds like you were directly ordered, so according to what you said "I said I would only do it if I was directly ordered.", it's now time to get the shot. If you're worried about the efficacy of the relatively new type of vaccine technology you could get the Jansen/J&J (old school vaccine).

Penalty for refusing a direct order? Ummmm.... Article 15 and dishonorable discharge? Not sure if there would be jail time involved, but I am sure the sky is the limit to the insanity.

Trivializing a Bent Spear as a 'haircut LOR' just because it happens in the midst of a "cEnTcOm priorities" kerfuffle is a weird flex, but OK.... For context, those of us who got stuck sucking the SAC-redux d!ck for a while don't view everything from the binary "centcom or you're a nonner". I didn't join the Army, I got no identity crisis. #PACAFLivesMatters #hafadai #NoTaxFree #FlagPole #PRP 😄

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By all means, make the attempt. But maybe wear your mask until the exemption goes through.

It’s the one true American political tradition… Chuck

...like those COVID19 pre-existing conditions or other-health-factors worsening COVID19's impact... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html ...discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen, who will be the primary plaintiff? Any wagers on if a class action will be filed? A hearty 'you-were-right' 😒 is brewing 😏

This. The nuke thing was the public event that Gates could use but Gates and Mosely fought vigorously over AF investment priorities. Its like when you have that one POS airmen with tons of discipline and you use a sloppy haircut to give him his final LOR.

Not saying the short term data is worse for the vaccine, nor do the above numbers break down vaccine status (there are vaccinated people amongst that data). But when you look at the data above, the vaccine becomes statistically unnecessary for a large portion of the population. Additionally, studies show natural immunity is far more effective than the vaccine (e.g. keep your natural immune system strong vs. interfering with synthetic drugs). Those, combined with no long term data on the vaccine (the currently unmeasured, potential danger of the vaccine), is what makes it a rational decision for many to pause on the vaccine…for now anyways.

I’m not a Commander or anybody worth much of a crap in the military, but I’d be willing to be a part of that movement. I don’t think those actions are disloyal or anything like that. Hell, I’d say Lt Col Scheller’s actions epitomize the USAF’s core values in asking for integrity, putting the service before the individual, and a demand for excellence.

Worth a listen, Angry Planet now 2 for 2 A Brief History of Lying About Afghanistan

would be fucking hilarious if they opened the cash bags and it was all just aafes pogs.

Re: 13K over end strength. Last numbers I saw were at the end of FY19 citing our end of FY18 stats. So this data’s a year old, but it showed that the total force is short roughly 2K pilots out of a required 21K. If you exclude the ARC and look just at AD, we were apparently 1.8K short on CGOs and 1K over on FGOs for a total of 807 AD pilots short. Not sure I believe those numbers, but that’s what’s on the slide. Obviously that also implies that the ARC is about 1.2K shy. Bashi, same thing here as above. The last PC app we sent up got disapprovals all the way up to the PC office, and still ultimately got approved for 6 months off. I think your odds are still good.

11F, WIC Instructor, trying to PC 10 months off my GI Bill Transfer ADSC and 8 months off my UPT ADSC (I transferred my GI bill late to my wife which is why my GI Bill Transfer ADSC is 2 months after my UPT ADSC). I got approvals from Squadron and WG leadership. Found out today my request was disapproved by my functional. Apparently now it goes to SAFPC for their approval/denial? I've heard anything greater than 6 months gets denied. Thought I'd try for 10 anyway and see what happens.....We'll see if SAFPC approves it miraculously. Hoping they will atleast give me a "No, but you're approved for 6 months".

PC Approved! 11M, 6 months off UPT ADSC with letter of intent, all recommend DISAPPROVE up to SAF. I'm in utter shock. Sent from my SM-G960U using Baseops Network mobile app

Just be advised, the flow chart is incorrect for officers when it comes to your 1288. They copy and pasted the enlisted chart so it says first endorser on the 1288 is Sq/CC whereas per reg it should be Wg/CC for officers. Sent from my SM-G960U using Baseops Network mobile app

Would I, given equal medical situations? Yep.