Leaderboard

The hilarity here is that the same shitty 11F’s that are being complained about will be the ones who are shipped back to UPT after a 2 year touch and go in a fighter. From my little slice of the AF, my U-28 bros that went to 38’s (after ~2000 combat hours as evaluators) would all have ended up in fighters if not for the poor planning of being 2008 college graduates. But those guys are now not “good enough” to teach a guy how to fly tac and extended trail. I don’t get it.

I was a flt/cc is a squadron that was half enlisted aircrew. The amount of young kids that failed PT tests was surprising. Many of them were pretty thin dudes that I would have thought wouldn’t have had issues. They just didn’t care or didn’t want to put the effort into physical training. On another note, a got a brief last week from a new program AFSOC/SOCOM is standing up later this year. It’s going to be a staff of physical trainers, physical therapists, dietitians, dedicated to only aircrew. They are suppose to have their own gym, and biometric equipment for analysis of improvements. Any aircrew on base can walk in and get help, and their services are suppose to be oriented to help aircrew better operate in their crew position. Having back issues being in the seat? Expect them to help get you on a training program to strengthen back muscles and focus on making it more comfortable. They were getting fam rides on the jets to become more familiar with our operating environment to better help us. I walked in late but it sounded pretty awesome. It’s based off what the Army/Navy have for their spec ops teams, and the money is from SOCOM, so for now it’s only going to be a AFSOC thing.

Go fuck your face. The author of that "sob story" is one of my buddies and one of the most patriotic, humble, well-liked dudes I've known in my years in the AF. Not many people here have had assignments cancelled after: signing papers for a house, wife finding a GOOD job, and enrolling kids in school mere days before it starts. I don't care what you've been through, that's tough on anyone. Now, because one GO thinks heavy drivers aren't capable of teaching tac form, he has to do it all over again, but now he gets to pull his kids out of school mid-year and enroll them somewhere else. His post should be something we can all rally around as another feather in the "Big Blue gives zero fucks about us" cap. Most of us in his situation would punch at the soonest opportunity, middle fingers in the air. But knowing the author, he will take the kick in the junk and keep moving forward because he cares about Mother Blue and legitimately wants to fix this cluster fuck and leave it in a better place.

Most of you are splitting hairs. I’m not talking about legitimately innocent people. I’m talking about people who committed the crime, found a loophole, and walked because of it. The integrity about the system and the cops and everything else is a straw man argument. If the guy did it, this is a purely ethical question. Does he deserve to be free of consequences? I agree with you that the system has to be free of issues regarding integrity. To the question of a one mistake AF, no it shouldn’t be a one mistake AF. There is however a chasm of difference between a mistake and a crime. Just like there’s a massive difference between hitting a child while DUI and just DUI, but they’re both still crimes. I guess I’m harsh because while I’d be very lenient with legitimate mistakes that were unintended consequences, I will hammer a guy as hard as possible for a DUI. He absolutely can turn his life around, but not in my unit. That is a risk I’m not willing to take. You tell me, is a guy more likely to kill people if he ignores 12 hours bottle to throttle, or if he gets in his car and drives home through a neighborhood while DUI? We’d FEB a guy immediately for that, but you think they should be able to move up the ranks for doing it in a car? I know that is a harsh stance. I’m not like that with many things, but ~10K people die in drunk driving crashes a year. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

11R simply not pictured (EDIT, ground abort, no show)

Everyone deploys and nobody has a clue what the next ten years will entail. Go for the mission/location that appeals to you, and don’t worry about the rest.

Don't we gripe against big blue's corporate fitness policy of focusing on appearance instead of performance? And now we want body shame and speculate on some random person based on a picture?

I don’t really consider Due Process a “technicality.” It’s in some famous document at the National Archives in D.C. Just became someone is “accused” of breaking the law, doesn’t give the DA/Cops/Government a green light to not follow the law to obtain a conviction/sentence. If you’re drinking a beer, get pulled over cause you did a California stop, get a breathalyzer because they smelled booze and have a .10 BAC, that’s a DUI in most jurisdictions. But you know you just had a beer, there’s no way that you could’ve blown a .10 BAC. During your trial through cross examination come to find out the cop that gave it to you was newly trained with the equipment and the equipment was last calibrated a year ago and was pencil whipped erroneously saying it was calibrated. You get acquitted/charges just get dropped. However, the holier-than-thou crew at work is too busy talking shit about you, not that they know any of the facts, because you got pulled over and charged with a DUI.

How the hell are we supposed to quantify that?

Take advantage of those programs and don’t try to rub some dirt on it and get back out there. I’ve got constant neck and back pain that has gotten significantly better by talking to the people mentioned above. At Hurlburt, it was the same guys that work with the STS folks and they helped me a good bit. It was simple stuff to help strengthen certain muscles and get others into balance. It’s worth it.

That's the first intelligent fitness-related development I've seen from the USAF since 1991. As a fighter back-injury-sufferer, I could've used a little of that rather than "take some Motrin and get on the flying schedule next week".

Push-ups, pull-ups, 1.5 run, waist. And they really believe this test accurately tells them anything about what physical condition someone is in? As a business practice, is the investment in dollars and resources worth the data we get from the "fitness program"? A month before I turned 50, I did my mandatory PT test with one of my best friends, who was 47. Of the other 7 in your PT group, one was early 30's, and the other 6 were early 20's. Me and my artificial hip came across the finish line at 10:16 with Brad about 20" behind me. We stood there and heckled the other 7 with shouts of "old guys rule!" Most of them were sucking wind. I lapped one of them twice. While this is only one indicator, it was obvious that these kids in their early 20's were lethargic. But was anything productive done with this data now that they were identified? Or was the time away from work, and the money spent on the salary for the full-time civilian monitor with the expensive AED heart-attack-restart box worth it? I appears to be such a monumental circle-jerk that we simply couldn't improve during my 28 years in.

Putting the C-172 on the list and leaving off the J-3 Cub is unforgivable!

you seem angry

https://i2.wp.com/delarroz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/66358532_1071672159887919_8957239623923269632_n.jpg?resize=476%2C365 Not saying the Clintons did it, but the Clintons did it Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

This thread is actually really kind of comical. On one hand, you have pointy nose dudes bitching about the lack of quality of UPT/IFF grads they are getting because the training pipeline is so badly undermanned, and then in the very same post, come up with this elitist BS about how other people don't have what it takes to train your guys. Like, okay, fine, the rest of us weren't exactly knocking down the door to come join your dumpster fire, but hey good luck with not having a midair with your shitty VR-trained UPT Next wingman that the last 3 training programs have been passing the buck on.

I guess I was the bottom ~25% of my year group according to the Air Force. Maybe I should start working like the shit bag Big Blue believes I am. Come in late, two hour lunch, gym at about 2, go home after the gym...

You do.

AF: “We have a massive pilot shortage! They’re leaving in droves. We need more money to fix this.” Congress: “You’re not getting more money, and It’s beginning to sound like you’ve been mismanaging your organization...” AF: “Actually, we just fixed everything. We’re good now.”

IFF is not about employing an airplane as a weapons system. It’s an admin course that teaches you how to speak/do the basics of being a fighter wingman. Hell, it’s right in the title of the course (fundamentals). Even the end of block sorties are demonstration of proficiency, not expertise. I agree the FTU shouldn’t be spending time on that. I vehemently agree that Brabus shouldn’t have to do that during MQT in a Viper. And also, if you think the basics aren’t important in a fighter, I’ve got 2 friends that were great fighter pilots that are no longer with us after making a simple mistake flying instruments. I don’t know anyone who has been shot down in the last decade and a half. To me, if a guy drops a fighter and makes it to the FTU, that’s more on IFF if they don’t like the product. Blaming UPT and scapegoating non 11F for a bad product at FTU and/or in the CAF is off-base IMO. Lastly, how on God’s green earth is a B-52/B-2 guy droning around in the bozosphere dropping BOC or launching SOW “good enough” to teach in a T-38 but some 11M/11S that’s been doing tons of actual hand flying in challenging environments not? No offense to the BUFF community, but I don’t get it.

AWWWW Academy ❤️

A lot of emphasis here on SUPT T-38 training for future fighter pilots. You don't need a fighter or bomber pilot to teach T-38 rejoins or tactical. MIF is MIF. There is a reason why IFF exists. If the product after the FTU is shit, you have nobody to blame but the 11F community. Only 11Fs teach at IFF and FTU.

They most certainly are more qualified for the 38 job. I’m not saying that someone who didn’t fly fighters can’t do the job, they obviously can and have been for a while now. However, the skills you develop in a fighter community apply much more to 38s than the heavy world. The pilots who have thousands of hours flying at 100agl in tac formations, or maneuvering air to air, while managing everything else that goes into flying a fighter will have a much easier time teaching the fighter centric aspects of UPT. Tactical formations, low level flying, single seat CRM, etc is all second nature, whereas other communities will have to spend the time it requires developing the skills to effectively fly it, and then experiencing it enough to accurately debrief what they’re doing wrong. Developing the geometry sight pictures of multiple maneuvering aircraft, and assessing what is going wrong with it, is one of the hardest parts to do well. I don’t think it should be limited to only 11F, but there is a definite return on investment if they aren’t required in the CAF. Then there’s the guys who care about instilling the douchey “fighter mindset” and all that BS that I don’t believe in.

Quick story: U-2 bud does his T-38 check ride shortly after arriving at Beale, and flies it with the DO. My bud doesn't wear his nomex gloves. Examiner/DO debriefs him, and at the end says "you violated such-and-such regulation by not wearing the gloves, and therefore I will Q-3 you. It's a safety of flight issue." Bud says: "how could you tell?" Examiner/DO: "I saw it when you took the runway as you lowered your canopy." Bud: "so you intentionally allowed me to do the takeoff and the entire flight without correcting me on the spot for what you perceived was a serious safety violation? I'll take the Q-3... fair enough. However, you and I are going to go talk to the Squadron commander, and then the OG commander and I'm going to ask THEM if YOU should also be Q-3.". My bud ended up with a Q-1.

Oh awesome. Not a year after the push to have squadron PTLs administer tests. We trust evaluators in the squadron to administer checkrides to aviators in a job that can kill people if not done right, but we don’t trust them to administer PT tests. This is what happens when you let nonners (AFSC neutral term to me) run the Air Force.

Cut up BOne parts roasting on the desert floor at DM as B-21s roar overhead...Thats the future. The crews are staying put for the most part because of assignment cycles (systemic reaction is slow), and because the initial AFGSC plan to take care of them was unrealistic - things that take a lot of time/money/approval/basing decisions and/or are competitive. It’ll likely be a mix of most of those options, but no one place will get all the BOne dudes - you’re not all going to school/staff/UPT. That takes time to settle. And just because your airplane takes a dump doesn’t earn you any extra points in the eyes of big Air Force. Luck and timing. Make your choices appropriately and remember rule #1. Chuck

Here’s what’s wrong: brown captains rank.

They want younger versions of themselves. The system worked for them, therefore the system must be good. I quote again from The Talking Heads, "Same as it ever was..." The new and improved two-line PRF is a sop so that it looks like "they are doing something." And for the drones at A1, et al, it was a way to get The Man off their collective back and earn themselves one of those coveted strats. This is no different than the switch from the old weighted OERs to the new and improved "meets standard" OPR/PRF, and so on back to 1947. And before that back to the founding of our military officer corps. Largely, who you know along with luck/timing rules and always will. Make informed decisions knowing the rules of the game whether written or not.

I am starting to lose track how many times I have now seen officers who have only been stratified at the CGO level i.e. their O-5 PRFs were written when they were senior captains, surpass above average performing FGOs. This is the most frustrating part of the whole promotion process. FGO and CGO have totally different levels of expectations. This is what makes me believe the only real thing the board looks at is the bottomline strat and where it came from. They could not care less about an officer's upbringing. It also makes me extremely cynical about the new promotion system. Why would it be any different if there are only two lines. Certainly since strats and DPs still exist on the PRF, what will drive senior raters to more closely examine an officer's record? Its emblematic of our culture where 15 second news clips suffice for being "well informed". My solution would be to scrap the PRF system altogether. Let the full record speak for itself.

Spoiler alert...it will sound the same as someone who makes it IPZ except the bottom line will have a #1 strat from either a WG/CC or above. Pathways to achieve this feat are 1. be a wing exec 2. be an aide/exec for a flag officer (preferably as a captain) 3. work a staff gig for a flag officer (again preferably as a captain). Better yet, make sure you check the box on just one flying assignment to ensure you have enough time to do one of the above and then PCS to a fellowship program to ensure your O-5 PRF is written as a CGO. This way the board can see how fantastic of a CGO you are without muddying the waters with FGO performance.

Still no Cub time for me to talk about but I have really enjoyed getting comfortable flying the T-6. I really enjoy the warbird community. I also did a backcountry course last summer in Idaho. THAT was a hoot, I definitely need a few more airplanes!

It means a lot. It was out of Pawnman's control but he should have had more breadth of experience and progression in responsibility. For the young people reading this, continue to work hard but make sure your duty title is commensurate or exceeds your rank/TIR/TIS. Know the key duty positions at each level of command as you progress in rank and you should be switching jobs about every 1.5 years. As much as we like to think that if we just keep working hard our boss will take care of us, the truth is your careers needs to be actively managed (not backstabbing) by you and your boss. Your boss's effort to take care of you depends on your performance, politics, favoritism, available resources, his moral compass and etc. No one in the military is ever too valuable to leave a position/unit/command. We are all replaceable.

Ask your wife. She's the one that'll live there.

I was in the air force from 1980-1984 in sept 1982 while working the mid-shift, I was delivering a part to the fb-111a and walked in front of the open nose cone while tech's were testing the tfr and ars system while hooked up to the apu....i noticed the tfr were sweeping and the ars was doing the same. I was waved off to get out of the way...they(tech) shut down the aircraft and stopped transmitting. They contacted the flightline Sgt and I was taken to the ER at 0053. When I went in the LTC told me that it wouldn't show till the long term....and now its showing. Lost all my Teeth, nodules in chest, pain in shoulders, and others. Any help in this matter would be great....i do still have the er paperwork that it did happen VA needs more proof. Thanks. john

This is interesting to me, a friend of mine in med school and I (an engineering student) saw this research and may look into making some gear to mitigate these risks. I don't want to post all the details on the internet, but this is something that probably will be addressed in the near future.

Oh man I want to rant and rave so badly about the PT test but I think about about the 9 or 10 year point you just lose the will for it anymore. The AF is not serious about building healthier airmen. What's the point in trying to get them to realize how to make it better.

Don't even have words.

Seems to me that telling the whole world about it online is a lapse in judgement in itself!

I think there's a process for getting OTH's turned into HD's if that's case. Try google, otherwise, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell unless you did some REAL good explaining in the package AND they even bother to read it after seeing the OTH. Sorry!

No shit...whatever happened to the days when prepping for the TBAS meant cutting yourself off at 10 beers the night before? Flash cards, computer games and juggling...WTFO.

Then tell your generation to stop being such a bunch of pussies. Seriously, it's just a little test, what the hell is everyone so paranoid about? At the point you're a freshman/sophomore in college taking this thing, you either have hand-eye coordination and memory skills or you don't. No amount of doing lame stuff is going to make any measurable amount of difference. But whatever, it's up to you if you'd rather spend your free time in college juggling or playing computer games than going to parties or doing other interactive activities.

according to past results, I would say you guys shouldnt get so wrapped up in the TBAS, because i know guys that scored a 20, 17, 15, 38 and they all got slots. the guys that scored 17, 20 both got fighters, im not sure about the 38 and 15 guys. not saying you should go wing it, but dont over stress yourself.

This stuff is crazy. The only reason you guys get all wrapped up about this stuff is because you know it exists thanks to the Internet. I had no idea anything existed or what the test even was. They asked "does anyone want to apply for pilot?". I said "sure, why not?". They told me to drive 2 hours to another school that weekend to take some test with a joystick so I did. You've got what you've got. Just have fun in school and quit worrying about stuff. They make almost everyone a pilot these days anyway.

I do not use drugs recreationally. I do not agree with them. I have known Adderall is a drug that is prescribed for ADD, ADHD and so on... Right now I’m a senior in high school and currently in a intense curriculum program and working around 30 hours a week. In order to keep up with school I have used Adderall around once a week to every other week. I am not prescribed Adderall and I have never used it for anything else other than to complete school work. Even though that probably doesn’t matter. How does the Air Force look at this? What are my chances of becoming a helo pilot? Other than this case I have never used any drugs that were not prescribed to me.

But that's what frustrates me the most about the public speaking class! I did exactly what the professor said. He said write and give a speech about whether you believe in hate crimes or not. It was choice. Yet I didn't and I was considered wrong, though it was an opinion based assignment. I guess I just have trouble getting use to how PC college is. I'm doing well in my business classes (I have A's in them so far) and I find the Business Communications class I'm taking easy. I know I can get all A's in my business classes. I simply just wanted to know if those B's and C's in my Gen Eds would matter in the future when a guard or reserve unit looks at my transcript. The two A's I got recently pulled my GPA up. I know I can do well do well in these business classes and get all A's. Sorry if I'm sounding so rude or whinny. I'm guess I'm frustrated (a lot of family issues going on at home) and I don't think taking it out on random strangers on the internet is going to help. (Especially on strangers who are suppose to help).

Just enlist in the army infantry you'll deploy so much in that organization.