Danger41 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Another thing in the fighter community right now for CC’s is that if you go back to when these dudes were in UPT, fighters were few and far between. The U-28 community just released their DO/CC list and the vast majority were T-38 trained O-5’s who in normal times would’ve ended up in Vipers or something else. It’s weird how you shut the flood gates for a couple years and end up paying for it down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCO Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 28 minutes ago, Danger41 said: Another thing in the fighter community right now for CC’s is that if you go back to when these dudes were in UPT, fighters were few and far between. The U-28 community just released their DO/CC list and the vast majority were T-38 trained O-5’s who in normal times would’ve ended up in Vipers or something else. It’s weird how you shut the flood gates for a couple years and end up paying for it down the road. Yep. The fighter year groups from 07-09 are tiny, especially 07. 07 got ravaged by UAVs and backed up B courses making only about 1 fighter pilot per class across all three UPT bases. We just didn’t make any fighter pilots. Now everyone on staff throws up their arms like we never saw this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 43 minutes ago, Danger41 said: Another thing in the fighter community right now for CC’s is that if you go back to when these dudes were in UPT, fighters were few and far between. The U-28 community just released their DO/CC list and the vast majority were T-38 trained O-5’s who in normal times would’ve ended up in Vipers or something else. It’s weird how you shut the flood gates for a couple years and end up paying for it down the road. You saw the X-order effect of this at UPT as well. At XL, less than 30% (at most) of the 87th was manned by 11Fs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Standing by for another round of O6 command selection in which no less than a half-dozen-newly-selected wing commanders and vice wing commanders will by mystified (and somehow pissed) that they popped for a UPT O6 command because they were FAIPs once. Happens every time (somehow)... Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motofalcon Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/13/2024 at 10:21 AM, Swizzle said: Double or triple, back-to-back command is new norm for Mx, LRS, and SF. I have seen this, but also thought it was tied to the “large” vs “small” sq - for what I know, those fields have the designation (which is why you’ll see awards for “Top Small SF Sq” or “Best Large CE Sq”). So folks would be a CC of a small sq as a Maj, then go on to command a large unit sts as a LtCol. Still means multiple commands, which I would bet is a love/hate kinda thing, either you love commanding and want to keep doing it, or you hate it and are forced into it by your AFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, Chuck17 said: Standing by for another round of O6 command selection in which no less than a half-dozen-newly-selected wing commanders and vice wing commanders will by mystified (and somehow pissed) that they popped for a UPT O6 command because they were FAIPs once. Happens every time (somehow)... Chuck How is that not the dream job? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said: How is that not the dream job? Agree, aside from a few speciality assignments an O-6 command at UPT would be awesome. Unless you're a political creature unable to leverage that assignment into someone's front office in NCR. But for a pilot, it's one of the best gigs for an O6. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Møøse Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/13/2024 at 11:58 AM, Danger41 said: It’s weird how you shut the flood gates for a couple years and end up paying for it down the road. But you don’t ever pay for it, because the nature of AF moves means no one will ever be held accountable for decisions that provide a short-term benefit with worse long-term outcomes. Big decisions on acquisitions and personnel don’t come home to roost until the people who devised and approved them are several assignments in the future. There’s no personal or institutional financial penalty because the budget always goes up and the bad decision makers always get a defense gig afterwards. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said: ..the nature of our government means no one will ever be held accountable for decisions that provide a short-term benefit with worse long-term outcomes. You just found the problem with our whole thing. How do we fix it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 hours ago, tac airlifter said: You just found the problem with our whole thing. How do we fix it? KGB style ministry of accountability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 hours ago, HossHarris said: KGB style ministry of accountability Really. That would just end up whacking those who speak the truth to power, and further insulate the corruption and cronyism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 38 minutes ago, Magellan said: Really. That would just end up whacking those who speak the truth to power, and further insulate the corruption and cronyism. Depends on who’s running it…..perhaps a triumvirate or some sort of special group of Illuminati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger41 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I don't have a problem with a bunch of my deserving contemporaries not getting sent to fighters when the war needed pilots to fly other stuff. I think institutionally we need to get away from the MWS tribes and gate keeping and realize that what you get out of UPT shouldn't define/exclude your career the entire time. If you want to see some funny stuff, look at some of the UPT grads scores that went non-fighters from the 07-09 year group and then compare it to a guy in the mid-teens that did. You'd rather take a guy who's sole talent is fogging a mirror into a Viper than a thousand combat hour U-28 kid that had the misfortune of bad timing? I know it's more complicated than that but that's always bugged me. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 20 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said: But you don’t ever pay for it, because the nature of AF moves means no one will ever be held accountable for decisions that provide a short-term benefit with worse long-term outcomes. Big decisions on acquisitions and personnel don’t come home to roost until the people who devised and approved them are several assignments in the future. There’s no personal or institutional financial penalty because the budget always goes up and the bad decision makers always get a defense gig afterwards. THIS! Hits on my 3-year rule of military/government that we've all touched on in BO over the years. A "Good Idea" only has to brief well for the 2-3 years while someone is in a particular position then the results good or bad don't manifest for 10 years or more. Really big decisions are made by the GOs and SESs who will be safely retired on their boat or as you mentioned in their post government defense gig. In fairness we all tend to look at what makes us look good on the yearly OPR/OER/CIV Evaluation. Although ethically we really need to think how our actions will likely affect the long-term viability of the institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbush Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 As usual, luck and timing are everything, and there is no justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 minutes ago, fire4effect said: THIS! Hits on my 3-year rule of military/government that we've all touched on in BO over the years. A "Good Idea" only has to brief well for the 2-3 years while someone is in a particular position then the results good or bad don't manifest for 10 years or more. Really big decisions are made by the GOs and SESs who will be safely retired on their boat or as you mentioned in their post government defense gig. In fairness we all tend to look at what makes us look good on the yearly OPR/OER/CIV Evaluation. Although ethically we really need to think how our actions will likely affect the long-term viability of the institution. This was the standard RoKAF staffing strategy. Go to RoKAF with an idea or need, and they would "staff" it for six months to a year, until the good idea fairy in question PCS'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/14/2024 at 5:59 AM, Chuck17 said: Standing by for another round of O6 command selection in which no less than a half-dozen-newly-selected wing commanders and vice wing commanders will by mystified (and somehow pissed) that they popped for a UPT O6 command because they were FAIPs once. Happens every time (somehow)... Chuck Dude, if you get a UPT command you are taking my ass flying! I’ll buy the beer afterward, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/15/2024 at 12:07 PM, mcbush said: As usual, luck and timing are everything, and there is no justice. Don’t forget “Life isn’t fair”. Rule 1: Timing is everything Rule 2: Life isn’t fair Rule 3: There is no justice Honorable Mention: Never trust a shoe clerk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 19 hours ago, Bergman said: Don’t forget “Life isn’t fair”. Rule 1: Timing is everything Rule 2: Life isn’t fair Rule 3: There is no justice Honorable Mention: Never trust a shoe clerk This is incorrect. "There is no justice" and "life isn't fair" are the same thing. Timing is everything It's better to be lucky than good There is no justice. The real core values of the air force and life in general. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 new three rules: Rule 1: Diversity is our strength Rule 2: Equity is our mission Rule 3: Inclusion is our sword 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff_T Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 https://www.stripes.com/branches/air_force/2024-01-18/air-force-general-sexual-assault-court-martial-12719938.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I guess it could be a little different for a general, but for an Article 32 judge to recommend against court martial, you must have absolutely zero evidence against the defendant, and possibly some particularly incriminating evidence against the alleged victim. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/19/2024 at 1:35 PM, Lord Ratner said: I guess it could be a little different for a general, but for an Article 32 judge to recommend against court martial, you must have absolutely zero evidence against the defendant, and possibly some particularly incriminating evidence against the alleged victim. I remember the AFLC Command Chief being a player and getting busted down to E-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, Prosuper said: I remember the AFLC Command Chief being a player and getting busted down to E-1 There is always a hater out there... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sua Sponte Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 21 hours ago, Prosuper said: I remember the AFLC Command Chief being a player and getting busted down to E-1 Wild story. https://afcca.law.af.mil/content/afcca_opinions/cp/gurney-37905_recon.pub.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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