Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[HuggyU2]

I just saw some slides with the so-called "Bonus" take rate.  The year isn't over but it's dismal so far.

Only 14% of eligible 11F's have taken it. 

0/10 F-15C pilots took it.  

And 3/32 F-35 pilots.

[di1630]

I just saw some slides with the so-called "Bonus" take rate.  The year isn't over but it's dismal so far.
Only 14% of eligible 11F's have taken it. 
0/10 F-15C pilots took it.  
And 3/32 F-35 pilots.

As of 9 April that’s alllll true, RPAs are at 50% though!!




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[HuggyU2]

17 minutes ago, di1630 said:

As of 9 April that’s alllll true, RPAs are at 50% though!!
 

It was a grainy photo from a powerpoint briefing.  I didn't see a date, but the data was readable.  Appreciate you confirming, even though the person providing it was solid.  

I also heard not a single 11R took the "bonus"... go figure.  It will show in 6 months.  

 

Note:  The etymology of the word "Bonus" comes from ancient Greek.  

The verb is "Boner" and means "to bone".

The "us" ending (as in "Bonus") is the third person plural of the verb "Boner".  

Ergo, "Bonus" means "to bone us" or "we get boned", in the American vernacular.  

(now that I ponder it, I think it is Aramaic, not Greek).  

Edited May 17, 2021 by HuggyU2

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

It was a grainy photo from a powerpoint briefing.  I didn't see a date, but the data was readable.  Appreciate you confirming, even though the person providing it was solid.  

I also heard not a single 11R took the "bonus"... go figure.  It will show in 6 months.  

 

Note:  The etymology of the word "Bonus" comes from ancient Greek.  

The verb is "Boner" and means "to bone".

The "us" ending (as in "Bonus") is the third person plural of the verb "Boner".  

Ergo, "Bonus" means "to bone us" or "we get boned", in the American vernacular.  

(now that I ponder it, I think it is Aramaic, not Greek).  

11Rs were not offered a bonus this year. So they will be zero take for the foreseeable future. 

[HuggyU2]

5 hours ago, FLEA said:

11Rs were not offered a bonus this year. 

I’m aware. I work in an 11R squadron. Just being sarcastic. 

[FLEA]

55 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

I’m aware. I work in an 11R squadron. Just being sarcastic. 

Ah copy. I wasn't sure, because I knew you were a U2 guy but thought maybe you were just out of the fold. I'll have my detection meter worked on. 

[hindsight2020]

*airline hires in spite of rona*

big blue right now....

😄

[Swizzle]

[Smokin]

Don't worry, we'll just grow ourselves out of it.  Luckily COVID didn't decrease our 2020 pilot production, absorption, and experience levels... oh wait.  Yep, we're hosed.

[Nodeskjobs]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:45 PM, Craftsman said:

Heard an interesting pure rumor from leadership. There may be a VSP this fall for FGO types. Reasoning too many FGO’s. 🤔 

Any updates to this nasty rumor?

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, Nodeskjobs said:

Any updates to this nasty rumor?

I too, am waiting in eager anticipation of this. 

[Gunnermcjack]

12 hours ago, Nodeskjobs said:

Any updates to this nasty rumor?

This really would be the perfect AF personnel action. Completely reactionary and void of any foresight. Covid is tailing down and airlines are hiring like mad. Clearly, the only correct response would be to cut pilots. Because.... reasons. 

[mcbush]

I don't have any inside knowledge, but I don't see it happening. The FY22 budget got released yesterday and the USAF is the only branch that's getting an increase to end strength next year. Couple that with the everlasting AF pilot shortage and it wouldn't make any sense to get rid of people. Of course, that's never stopped the Bobs before...

[jazzdude]

I don't have any inside knowledge, but I don't see it happening. The FY22 budget got released yesterday and the USAF is the only branch that's getting an increase to end strength next year. Couple that with the everlasting AF pilot shortage and it wouldn't make any sense to get rid of people. Of course, that's never stopped the Bobs before...

VSP for 11X in general doesn't make sense.

Any year groups in particular airframes overmanned? Seems like 11Rs in the 2010ish year groups or older might get offered VSP based on not being offered a pilot bonus this year. Unless not being offered the bonus fixes the glitch on it's own.

[di1630]

This really would be the perfect AF personnel action. Completely reactionary and void of any foresight. Covid is tailing down and airlines are hiring like mad. Clearly, the only correct response would be to cut pilots. Because.... reasons. 

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Danger41]

Sorry for what I’m sure is a duplicate question, but I couldn’t find it. 
 

If I’m on a bonus but want to pursue Palace Chase, what would happen to the remainder of that bonus? E.G. I’m on a 3 year bonus and if I were to get a 1 year PC, what’s the math on that?

[StoleIt]

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

Sorry for what I’m sure is a duplicate question, but I couldn’t find it. 
 

If I’m on a bonus but want to pursue Palace Chase, what would happen to the remainder of that bonus? E.G. I’m on a 3 year bonus and if I were to get a 1 year PC, what’s the math on that?

Will they even approve a PC from a bonus? Isn't that a SECAF level approval with no delegation lower?

[Danger41]

3 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Will they even approve a PC from a bonus? Isn't that a SECAF level approval with no delegation lower?

That’s a good piece of info. I have no idea if that’d get approved but I think I’ll pursue it.

[Majestik Møøse]

38 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Will they even approve a PC from a bonus? Isn't that a SECAF level approval with no delegation lower?

Jeebus, why? We’re so dumb. What if O-6s could decide which of their guys get paid more. Like the entire rest of the world.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Sorry for what I’m sure is a duplicate question, but I couldn’t find it. 
 

If I’m on a bonus but want to pursue Palace Chase, what would happen to the remainder of that bonus? E.G. I’m on a 3 year bonus and if I were to get a 1 year PC, what’s the math on that?

I don't see it getting approved, but in the unlikely event it works out, pretty sure you owe back whatever part of that bonus you haven't "earned" through the service commitment. Including taxes.

[FlyingWolf]

On 4/28/2021 at 5:39 PM, FourFans130 said:

Regardless, having seen behind the curtain now, I can speak with authority when I say "don't take the bonus".

...and I did.  I got out as soon as I could...right in the middle of a global pandemic, at 17 years of service, while non-current in an airplane, and I haven't regretted that decision even once.  So I say again: don't take the bonus.

Would you mind expanding on your perspective here?  What did you see behind the curtain? 

I appreciate your insight, feel free to PM.

[FourFans]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:40 PM, FlyingWolf said:

Would you mind expanding on your perspective here?  What did you see behind the curtain? 

I appreciate your insight, feel free to PM.

Multiple thoughts on this topic.  I'll go objective to subjective.

Financially: the 'bonus' is still 25,000 to 35,000 dollars.  It was introduced in the 1990s, yet has not substantially changed since then.  in 2015 when I took mine (25,000 for 5 years), it should have been at least 37,000 to account for inflation alone.  I didn't do my homework.  I recommend others do theirs before deciding.  By comparison, if you separate at 12 years of service and join an airline, a part 135 operator (think flying twin otters or -8's in hot places), a cargo carrier, or even a cargo carrier feeder to a major cargo carrier, you will make more money in the following 8 years than you would have in the Air Force. 

Moreover, the Air Force continues to insult their pilots with the need for a bonus and the option to take it...and sometimes no bonus at all...while GIVING doctors, surgeons, and dentists professional pay that exceeds the aviation bonus while not requiring a "take"...in the AIR FORCE.  Not the dental force, or the medical force, the Air Force.  This year, as a reservist pilot, I will not get an aviation bonus because it was not offered to pilots in my air frame at my base, because clearly the air force is good on pilots...while medical professionals get an automatic bump to account for the money they aren't making on the outside.  Objectively the USAF demonstrates that it does not value it's pilots and is unwilling to truly push for retention improvements.  The fellas at RAND have routinely updated their data that shows retaining a USAF pilot at 12-15 years for another 3 years using a $100,000 per year bonus is more cost effective than producing new pilots.  Just like big blue, we'll completely ignore the safety improvements of retaining experienced pilots in one of the most complicated and dangerous corners of the aviation world.  No, the USAF simply continues to accept the shackles that congress places on it regarding the restricted pilot bonus instead of pushing HARD for a professional pay similar to the medical career fields.  That lack of effort shows me all I need to see.

However that financial analysis ignores the quality of life items, right?  Unfortunately a QoL analysis only puts more nails in the coffin.  For example, pilots are likely to marry spouses in a like-status, like-education-level, and like-earning potential bracket.  In short, we choose to partner within our peer group.  Yet the Air Force completely ignores this fact and continues to move us every three years, thereby negating our life partners the opportunity to professionally put down roots and create a career, thereby stifling their earning potential.  Yes, the air force has claimed new programs to improve this problem by letting pilot homestead, but they are largely lip service programs that have shown to kill career progression.  Take a look at how well the career pilot program went...for the four individuals that got accepted.  Or perhaps AFPAK HANDS, which I watched get used as a "force shaping tool" to force 8 senior MAF MWS IPs decide to separate instead of taking that as their next assignment (circa 2016).  That trend has not changed.

The senior leaders of the USAF refuse to force the middle leadership to abide by the simple rules of organizational excellence: Train and equip and prepare your people so well that they could leave and be hired by any other organization immediately, and treat them in such a manner that they don't want to.

My own story included an advisory that my last three years before hitting 20 would include a PCS (I'd been in my API-6 'flying' non-flying desk job for 2 years) and a 1 year deployment...because 2.5 years in the desert and 4.5 years total gone from home in 17 years wasn't enough.  When I asked for special consideration as the job I was filling is difficult to fill, I was flatly told no.  So I voted with my feet.  Then the USAF promoted me 3 months before my separation date...and I still separated (promotion carries no ADSC).

But let's shift gears and assume I decided to apply to be commander a staffer or whatever career progression track big blue would advise me to take.  The peek behind that curtain reveals nothing but another curtain.  I've been close personal friends with enough commanders to have learned that becoming a commander, an aide de camp, or attaining some other advancement position does not actually allow you access to change, fix, or improve the system as we all secretly hope to do if given that opportunity.  Instead, you are rewarded with a PCS, school, or lateral move every 1-2 years.  Moreover, you get the exposure to discover that the senior GS and SES community as well as the bad O-7s (there are good ones, but the bad ones abuse their influence and tend to poison the well far beyond the abilities of the good ones to fix) and their staff sycophants continue to perpetuate the self-promoting trend of the USAF.  That leaves the hard working 'good guy' O-6s and O-7s swimming very much upstream if they want to institute sincere and good changes.  I know several of these excellent men and women, and I pray their influence changes the USAF.  I realized that fighting that battle was not in my blood, so I couldn't continue on that road.

What's that have to do with the bonus?  In short, those who were going to stay would have done so anyways.  Those taking it for the money factor only may not have done their homework to realize they could make much more elsewhere.  So it's not really a retention bonus, it's a 'thanks for staying, we want to lock you in and take away your power to say "no" pay'.

Hence I say, unless you know you and your family want to stay at the whim of the you-are-nothing-but-a-number AFPC assignment process until the end of whatever commitment you are 'offered', don't take the bonus.

[SurelySerious]

Multiple thoughts on this topic.  I'll go objective to subjective.
Financially: the 'bonus' is still 25,000 to 35,000 dollars.  It was introduced in the 1990s, yet has not substantially changed since then.  in 2015 when I took mine (25,000 for 5 years), it should have been at least 37,000 to account for inflation alone.  I didn't do my homework.  I recommend others do theirs before deciding.  By comparison, if you separate at 12 years of service and join an airline, a part 135 operator (think flying twin otters or -8's in hot places), a cargo carrier, or even a cargo carrier feeder to a major cargo carrier, you will make more money in the following 8 years than you would have in the Air Force. 
Moreover, the Air Force continues to insult their pilots with the need for a bonus and the option to take it...and sometimes no bonus at all...while GIVING doctors, surgeons, and dentists professional pay that exceeds the aviation bonus while not requiring a "take"...in the AIR FORCE.  Not the dental force, or the medical force, the Air Force.  This year, as a reservist pilot, I will not get an aviation bonus because it was not offered to pilots in my air frame at my base, because clearly the air force is good on pilots...while medical professionals get an automatic bump to account for the money they aren't making on the outside.  Objectively the USAF demonstrates that it does not value it's pilots and is unwilling to truly push for retention improvements.  The fellas at RAND have routinely updated their data that shows retaining a USAF pilot at 12-15 years for another 3 years using a $100,000 per year bonus is more cost effective than producing new pilots.  Just like big blue, we'll completely ignore the safety improvements of retaining experienced pilots in one of the most complicated and dangerous corners of the aviation world.  No, the USAF simply continues to accept the shackles that congress places on it regarding the restricted pilot bonus instead of pushing HARD for a professional pay similar to the medical career fields.  That lack of effort shows me all I need to see.
However that financial analysis ignores the quality of life items, right?  Unfortunately a QoL analysis only puts more nails in the coffin.  For example, pilots are likely to marry spouses in a like-status, like-education-level, and like-earning potential bracket.  In short, we choose to partner within our peer group.  Yet the Air Force completely ignores this fact and continues to move us every three years, thereby negating our life partners the opportunity to professionally put down roots and create a career, thereby stifling their earning potential.  Yes, the air force has claimed new programs to improve this problem by letting pilot homestead, but they are largely lip service programs that have shown to kill career progression.  Take a look at how well the career pilot program went...for the four individuals that got accepted.  Or perhaps AFPAK HANDS, which I watched get used as a "force shaping tool" to force 8 senior MAF MWS IPs decide to separate instead of taking that as their next assignment (circa 2016).  That trend has not changed.
The senior leaders of the USAF refuse to force the middle leadership to abide by the simple rules of organizational excellence: Train and equip and prepare your people so well that they could leave and be hired by any other organization immediately, and treat them in such a manner that they don't want to.
My own story included an advisory that my last three years before hitting 20 would include a PCS (I'd been in my API-6 'flying' non-flying desk job for 2 years) and a 1 year deployment...because 2.5 years in the desert and 4.5 years total gone from home in 17 years wasn't enough.  When I asked for special consideration as the job I was filling is difficult to fill, I was flatly told no.  So I voted with my feet.  Then the USAF promoted me 3 months before my separation date...and I still separated (promotion carries no ADSC).
But let's shift gears and assume I decided to apply to be commander a staffer or whatever career progression track big blue would advise me to take.  The peek behind that curtain reveals nothing but another curtain.  I've been close personal friends with enough commanders to have learned that becoming a commander, an aide de camp, or attaining some other advancement position does not actually allow you access to change, fix, or improve the system as we all secretly hope to do if given that opportunity.  Instead, you are rewarded with a PCS, school, or lateral move every 1-2 years.  Moreover, you get the exposure to discover that the senior GS and SES community as well as the bad O-7s (there are good ones, but the bad ones abuse their influence and tend to poison the well far beyond the abilities of the good ones to fix) and their staff sycophants continue to perpetuate the self-promoting trend of the USAF.  That leaves the hard working 'good guy' O-6s and O-7s swimming very much upstream if they want to institute sincere and good changes.  I know several of these excellent men and women, and I pray their influence changes the USAF.  I realized that fighting that battle was not in my blood, so I couldn't continue on that road.
What's that have to do with the bonus?  In short, those who were going to stay would have done so anyways.  Those taking it for the money factor only may not have done their homework to realize they could make much more elsewhere.  So it's not really a retention bonus, it's a 'thanks for staying, we want to lock you in and take away your power to say "no" pay'.
Hence I say, unless you know you and your family want to stay at the whim of the you-are-nothing-but-a-number AFPC assignment process until the end of whatever commitment you are 'offered', don't take the bonus.

Quoted for truth, one of the best summaries out there.

[brabus]

The irony of the pro pay is pilots could go work for a major and make roughly the same as an MD (but without the 100s K in debt and 24 hr shifts in ERs). So how do they justify pro pay for docs, and not for pilots? Nonsensical. 

[HossHarris]

35 minutes ago, brabus said:

The irony of the pro pay is pilots could go work for a major and make roughly the same as an MD (but without the 100s K in debt and 24 hr shifts in ERs). So how do they justify pro pay for docs, and not for pilots? Nonsensical. 

Because being a doc is the same really regardless of who you’re working for. 
 

military flying is different. Not a lot of places you can fly a fighter. Or do the things they do with fatties (?). 
 

airline flying is boring as shit. It should not be the pinnacle of your flying career.