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41 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

i want all my bros to come work for the airlines. 

So quite a few are going to non-airline jobs?

Or simply not getting out when they can?

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11 hours ago, SocialD said:

Only upgraded because the seniority and for ability to drop a bunch

And that, my friends, is key...congrats on "living in that weird spot"!!

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1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

Not getting out. And continuing to get abused by active duty. 

Let's see which ones apply:



1. You don’t feel free to make your own choices. The other person tells you how to dress and how to act, tries to control who you spend time with, and keeps track of where you go and what you do all the time.

4. Your partner “love bombs” you. They try to make up for abusive behavior with exaggerated compliments, extravagant gifts, or telling you they “can’t live without you.”

5. You feel like everything that’s wrong with the relationship is your fault. Emotional abuse often includes convincing the other person that they need to be criticized and told what to do because of their poor behavior, and if they were “better,” there wouldn’t be a problem.

7. You never know which version of your partner you’re going to get. They’re hot and cold by turns, sometimes withdrawn or insulting, and then drawing you back in by being suddenly attentive and loving.

8. You get shut down when you try to communicate. The other person dismisses your needs or concerns, or responds to them with sarcasm or disgust.

9. You’ve lost confidence in your own perspective. You’ve been told so many times that you’re wrong, stupid, or crazy that you’ve started to believe it.

10. You’ve forgotten what you used to be like before the relationship. You spend so little time on your own, doing things you care about, or spending time with close friends that you don’t remember what it felt like to be a strong and independent person.



Yeap, definitely in an abusive relationship.

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  • 1 month later...
40 minutes ago, bfargin said:

In all fairness, I’m pretty sure that was C model driver boning his crew chief at Kadena.

I didn’t misspeak…the strike guys know exactly what I’m referring to. 

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9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Just one of the many reasons flying freight is better than flying pax…



Meh, that message was probably the extent of the pilots "dealing" with a pax.  At the gate...send a message and it's someone else's problem.  Off the gate...send a message and it's someone else's problem.  Airborne...send a message and it's someone else's problem.  My flights are short enough that I'm going to my destination anyway.  The one time as a Captain, I've had a pax removed (drunk guy), I didn't hear about it until after the fact...perfect!  Either way, I'll be in the cockpit, searching for the end of the internet lol.

Edited by SocialD
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8 hours ago, StoleIt said:

True, freight gets to fly around literal boxes of dildos. Not this onesie twosie weak sauce...

Many times, over the middle of the Pacific in the wee hours of the morning have I considered the number of latex dongs I’ve helped deliver around the world, spreading pleasure to women everywhere. Then I remember that 90% of them are probably just headed to BQZip’s mom’s house & I throw up in my mouth a little & wash it down with some freight dawg coffee while I try to think about something else. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Summarized Highlights

Note: All “May 2” dates are based on an Aug. 1, 2023, ratification that will change if the agreement is not ratified Aug. 1.

  • Duration – 4 years; Amendable date: Aug. 1, 2027
  • Back Pay – (based on eligible earnings)
    • 2020: 4%
    • 2021: 4%
    • 2022: 14%
    • 2023: ~21% (3 months preceding DOS (thus effective May 2, 2023)
  • Pay rates that meet or exceed Delta pay rates:
    • (DOS ~21% increase)
    • May 2, 2024: 5%
    • May 2, 2025: 4%
    • May 2, 2026: 4%
    • May 2, 2027: 3% Amendable year raise
  • Increase of 401(k) contributions increase to:
    • 17% on May 2, 2024
    • 18% on May 2, 2026
  • Realign pay step date (pay longevity) to date of hire for all pilots who have not reached 12th year pay.
  • Establish a Market Based Cash Balance Plan.
  • Sick sell-back – or – Retiree Health Reimbursement Arrangement (RHRA) option for pilots at retirement at 66% of the value of accrued sick bank (up to $200,000).
  • Vacation year 2024/2025 and beyond: 4:35 pay per day.
  • Vacation year 2025/2026 and beyond: 4:00 credit per day.
  • Increase of vacation accrual to 35 days at 19 years of service.
  • Long-haul narrowbody (NB) override: CA $8.00/FO $6.00 on all NB flying to Europe, South America (south of the equator), and Hawaii.
  • International Override: CA $6.50/FO $4.50 (includes Canada).
  • Improved profit sharing to the Delta formula (10% up to $2.5B pre-tax profit, 20% for anything above).
  • Increase training pay to 5:00 per day.
  • Increase (long course) training pay for Initial, Upgrade, Transition to 3:05 per day.
  • Holiday pay for nine (9) holidays of an additional 5:15 for each designated holiday duty touches (includes simulator training, DHD’s to/from training, OE, and CKP).
  • Deadhead (DHD) pays greater of scheduled or actual if pilot on aircraft.
  • Jumpseat: Captain may coordinate to account for expected taxi fuel burn to offset jumpseat occupant.
  • Pairing Construction Limits:
    • 1- and 2-day pairings: minimum of 20%
    • 4-day pairings: average maximum of 38% in a rolling 12-month period, max 43% in any month
    • 5-day pairings: average max of 8% in a rolling 12-month period, max of 10% in any month
  • Elimination of ACARS use for scheduling purposes.
  • Newly developed pilot-centric Electronic Communication System (ECS).
  • No DHD prior to redeye flight segment on allocated sequences.
  • 2:00 hours pay, no credit for sequences that release between 0000-0159.
  • Development of graduated premium scale:
    • 50%, 75%, 100%
  • Movement of pilot DFP only with pilot consent (no moveable DFP).
  • Adjustments to reserve assignment system utilizing buckets and seniority.
  • Company may not search or schedule reserve pilot to fly in the lineholder month.
  • Reserves reassigned will be paid in accordance with the reassignment pay provisions.
  • If a reserve pilot is scheduled into a DFP (no later than noon), the pilot will receive 5:15 pay/no credit (above guarantee) and the DFP must be restored within the current month; if the DFP cannot be restored (e.g., remainder of month consists of only DFPs), or the pilot elects to not have the DFP restored, the pilot will receive an additional 5:15 pay/no credit (above guarantee).
  • DFP trading via TTS-like system with transparency and conditions.
  • Long Call increased to 14 hours outside of DOTC.
  • Sit rig to pay for all sit time, including due to delays, reassignments, and reserve assignments, for all block-in to block-out time in excess of 2:30
  • ALV (Average Line Value) window reduced to 74-82 hours, with conditional flex up.
  • Reassignments will pay 50% premium for segments in the current/first duty period of a reassignment and 100% premium of all segments in subsequent duty period until the pilot is returned to original sequence or domicile.
  • Pilot shared sequences implemented at DOS.
  • Sequence Protection, Recovery Obligation, and Replacement Flying improvements that increase pilot optionality.
  • Adjustments and protections surrounding NB Split Duty Pairings.
    • Min pay rig of 7:45
    • Max 2 flight segments (1 outbound, 1 inbound)
    • Max total scheduled block time: 4:15
  • Check Pilots
    • 6.0-hour min day including schoolhouse work.
    • 20% override for all X-Type schoolhouse work.
    • 15-day standard month (Company can schedule up to 17): 16th day and greater at overtime (additional 2.5 hours/day above 15 days).
    • X & L Type CKP paid 12th year pay for what can hold in 4-part bid status.
    • Create Line Check Pilot (LCP) position.
      • LCP bid with PBS
      • 25% override pay for all Flight Standards work performed.
    • Create Instructor Pilot (IP) position.
      • IP paid highest bid status can hold capped at 12th year WB FO.
      • 15% override pay for IP work performed.
  • Minimum of 4 vacancy bid awards annually.
  • Long Term Disability (LTD):
    • New LTD
      • Monthly Benefit: 50% of Pre-Disability Earnings, no cap, fully pensionable.
      • Removal of all offsets.
      • Reduce elimination period from 90 days to 60 days.
      • Imputed Income Option: annual election would allow LTD benefits to be “tax-free.”
    • Improvements to Existing LTD Plans
      • Increase monthly benefit by 30%.
      • Remove ALL remaining offsets.
      • Pilot on LTD and employed by AA as a Sim-P may continue to receive current LTD benefit.
    • Life insurance increase to $500,000.
    • FAA first Class Medical reimbursement of up to $278 or $457 with EKG.


Summary of AAL's AIP is out. Some good, some meh...not industry leading, IMO. Doesn't even meet DAL's pay rate for another 2 years. Unless there is some magical language in the actual/full contract when it gets released:

week wife GIF

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8 hours ago, di1630 said:

How accurate is the “take hourly airline pay x $1,000 and that’s your pay” guidance? A guy told me that’s accurate for year 1 but then the reality after is much higher. Anyone have good data?

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Depends entirely on one’s priorities. There are certainly opportunities to make more money. Those opportunities will vary airline to airline as every contract is different. Every airline will have a guarantee that ensures you will be paid for a certain number of hours even if you fly less. Best advice I can give: plan to live at or under guarantee. If you make more, bonus! Invest it, send your kids to a good college, buy an expensive toy, whatever. But always be able to pay your bills on guarantee alone. This industry is cyclical and downturns tend to take people by surprise (they shouldn’t). 

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On 5/6/2023 at 6:55 PM, ClearedHot said:

Screen Shot 2023-05-06 at 8.54.23 PM.png

Looks like negative Gs made that monster fly out of some lady’s (or Eagle Driver’s) purse.  Lol.

That’s an ACARs message I never had to send as an FO. Lol

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8 hours ago, di1630 said:

How accurate is the “take hourly airline pay x $1,000 and that’s your pay” guidance? A guy told me that’s accurate for year 1 but then the reality after is much higher. Anyone have good data?



It depends....   Fly your schedule and go home, it's probably a safe bet.  Min sked kinda of guy and/or drop liberally and it's a bit high.  Hustle and fly premium and it's quite low.  Also profit sharing can skew the data a bit.  Min reserve guarantee (DAL) of 72 hours actually shacks the pay rate x 1,000 formula.   Min line guarantee of 65 hours = pay rate x 900ish.  


Pooter offers sage advice above.  I always advise guys budget on min line guarantee (or less) and use the rest as found money to pay for kids college, buy toys, hookers/blow, etc...  I keep my budget much lower than 65 hours, but I don't have kids and have a fair amount of rental income.  This made going from 330FO to 717FO a stress free event during rona.  I saw dudes freaking out because they "needed" to get 85 hours at 330 rates to maintain their budget....yikes!  


I'm trying to dig through years with little MLOA, but it's all a bit hazy.   Here are some real numbers for your data collection.  Actually, over on APC there is a year end pay thread every year.  Some guys get all butt hurt about it being a dick measuring contest, but I've always found it to be useful data if they give you deets.  I've always been jobs where anyone was free to see how much I'm paid, so talking pay has never bothered me.  


2022 - Pay rate Jan - Mar = $167/hr, Apr - Oct = $247/hr.  I only worked half of November before going on long term MLOA.  Worked the premium trip game pretty hard for 6 of those months but dropped liberally in July.  Ended at  $261k + $42k in 401k. 


20/21 - Too difficult to guess because of a deployment and down time from rona.


2019 - Pay rate was $208/hr.  Almost no premium, but hustled a little for more efficient trips.  Ended with $236k + 38K in 401k.  

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