Bigred Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bigred said: I doubt it’s a cost thing because the Navy doesn’t require 10 years, and I doubt they have the WalMart brand F-18s just to save money. When I was in Navy flight school, after winging helo guys only had a seven year comittment, everyone else had eight. They changed it to eight for everyone around 2006-7. If I were to guess, the AF set it at 10 because they felt that’s what they could get dudes to agree to without negatively impacting accessions. I know if I was 22 and told I had to sign a 20 year contract, I would have said hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 9 hours ago, StoleIt said: I could also see the AF pitching 20 year pilot ADSC's. Which should be considered a predatory loan or some sort of indentured servitude, though. There needs to be some sort of mechanism to protect enthusiastic, misguided, brainwashed 21 year-old's from an exploitative and unfair contract. I could totally see enthusiastic, ROTC cadet, past me signing that. And, in that scenario, current me would 100% hate and loath my former ROTC Cadre for basically being willing to knowingly sell me into an unfair, biased, and unconscionable contract. Let's hope that COA (and stop loss) are never seriously considered by the geniuses at the ARTF & AFPC. The mechanism is getting passed over for promotion twice. Then you're a free agent. It worked for me. I loved telling people that I had two years left on my ADSC while I walked around with a beard and polo shirt and hands in my pockets. That said 20 year contracts are unconscionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorgan Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 The mechanism is getting passed over for promotion twice. Then you're a free agent. It worked for me. I loved telling people that I had two years left on my ADSC while I walked around with a beard and polo shirt and hands in my pockets. That said 20 year contracts are unconscionable.Twice passed over might be a thing of the past as they transition to the 5-look system. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Twice passed over might be a thing of the past as they transition to the 5-look system. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOr realize there are literally more non flying stupid jobs than can possibly be staffed, and now you’ve got a population that literally can’t threaten walking papers. “Oh you didn’t make O4/5/6 and are now 3 years AZ. Well I have this opportunity at Fort Polk….”Like I said, the careerist mindset will be a lot more cutthroat. Not because you’re trying to make rank, but more because you’re trying to “stay in the air conditioning.” Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 (edited) NDAA 2023 authorizes service secretaries to approve an increase to the flight pay cap from $1000/mo to $1500/mo. Additionally, authorizes bonus yearly cap increase to $50k/yr. Edited December 8, 2022 by Standby 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperdriver1313 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 My guess is they have to up everything to what they authorize (50k/1500). These new airline contracts that can somewhat follow suit to delta will make it an interesting timeline and good for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzle Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Watch, it will take a full year to implement… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Swizzle said: Watch, it will take a full year to implement… Or never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Swizzle said: Watch, it will take a full year to implement… Then it will take another 5 years for DFAS to figure out how to change some 1's and 0's to have the flight pay actually pay correctly... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 19 minutes ago, SocialD said: Then it will take another 5 years for DFAS to figure out how to change some 1's and 0's to have the flight pay actually pay correctly... https://www.pilotonline.com/military/article_5620aed1-d34e-5421-addb-ea98a38ba0b4.html Read this old article and steel yourself that you just might be right 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, uhhello said: https://www.pilotonline.com/military/article_5620aed1-d34e-5421-addb-ea98a38ba0b4.html Read this old article and steel yourself that you just might be right 🙂 Oh I have little confidence DFAS and assume I won't be far off. I was told in 2018 there would be an new system in 2020 that would allow our flight pay to pay correctly. Well, we (DSGs) still get paid our flt pay paid via one of those "manual workarounds" they mention in the article, and that pay system still hasn't materialized. Also, a squadron mate fought an epic battle with DFAS (too confusing to type) and actually won out, but it took getting congressman involved. I'm constantly reminded of how inept they are at DFAS. Edited December 9, 2022 by SocialD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Has there been any progress on seeing an entire month’s or flight pay for just attending drill for DSGs? I thought that was part of the last NDAA but maybe it was only talked about. I’ve been on full-time orders for a bit so I haven’t kept track super closely. My going assumption is that it’s the law but DFAS somehow can’t execute it so…fuck us apparently 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 12/8/2022 at 2:20 PM, Standby said: NDAA 2023 authorizes service secretaries to approve an increase to the flight pay cap from $1000/mo to $1500/mo. Additionally, authorizes bonus yearly cap increase to $50k/yr. After seeing big Air Force drag their feet on using the full authorized amount for bonuses, I'm not optimistic about seeing $1500/ month flight pay. Especially when we have B-21s to pay for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 Sounds like it’s time for the USAF to initiate a study on the topic. Maybe some surveys. I’m sure it’ll all be fixed right after. 9 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 15 hours ago, pawnman said: Especially when we have B-21s to pay for. It’s fine, we’ll only buy 3 of them and they’ll cost $6.9T a piece once you factor in R&D costs 🤣😑 But nah we can’t possibly pay pilots more to stay or even just execute on pay changes already authored by law… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 I’d rather cut all the dead weight personnel than new tech.At my base if you got rid of all the NCO’s that are sucking up $60k per year struggling to justify their existence you could give each pilot a $100k+ bonus and still save money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJay Pilot Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 21 hours ago, pawnman said: Especially when we have B-21s to pay for. BuT iT’s DiFfReNt PoTs Of MoNeY! 😂🍻 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoEN Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 On 12/9/2022 at 6:22 PM, nsplayr said: Has there been any progress on seeing an entire month’s or flight pay for just attending drill for DSGs? I thought that was part of the last NDAA but maybe it was only talked about. I’ve been on full-time orders for a bit so I haven’t kept track super closely. My going assumption is that it’s the law but DFAS somehow can’t execute it so… us apparently 🤷♂️ Curious about this too, haven’t heard any progress or updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) On 12/9/2022 at 6:22 PM, nsplayr said: Has there been any progress on seeing an entire month’s or flight pay for just attending drill for DSGs? I thought that was part of the last NDAA but maybe it was only talked about. I’ve been on full-time orders for a bit so I haven’t kept track super closely. My going assumption is that it’s the law but DFAS somehow can’t execute it so…fuck us apparently 🤷♂️ 54 minutes ago, BroncoEN said: Curious about this too, haven’t heard any progress or updates I remember hearing guys talk about a new ops building that would be built on our base "within the next few years." That was in 2002 and we still don't have that building...and the project has already been pushed into the next decade. I expect full flight pay for DSGs to go about the same way lol. Free beer....tomorrow. Edited December 11, 2022 by SocialD 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Rose Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) On 12/8/2022 at 1:20 PM, Standby said: NDAA 2023 authorizes service secretaries to approve an increase to the flight pay cap from $1000/mo to $1500/mo. Additionally, authorizes bonus yearly cap increase to $50k/yr. Where do you find the different NDAA versions? I may be reading it wrong, but the version of the NDAA 2023 that pops up on Congress' page looks like it shows increases of Flight pay to $1,500 max and Pilot Bonus to $75,000 per year max. Not Sure if this is an old committee version or what, so the $50K Bonus may be accurate, just the first time I recall seeing that. Here's the verbiage from Congress' website (Aviation portions in BOLD and amends the monthly Flight Pay and Bonus sections of pertinent law): SEC. 612. INCREASE TO MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF CERTAIN BONUS AND SPECIAL PAY AUTHORITIES. (a) General Bonus Authority for Enlisted Members.--Section 331(c)(1) of title 37, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ``$50,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ``$30,000'' and inserting ``$50,000''. (b) Special Bonus and Incentive Pay Authorities for Nuclear Officers.--Section 333(d)(1)(A) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking ``$50,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''. (c) Special Aviation Incentive Pay and Bonus Authorities for Officers.--Section 334(c)(1) of title 37, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ``$1,000'' and inserting ``$1,500''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ``$35,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''. (d) Skill Incentive Pay or Proficiency Bonus.--Section 353(c)(1)(A) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking ``$1,000'' and inserting ``$1,750''. Edited December 12, 2022 by Hunter Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Hunter Rose said: Where do you find the different NDAA versions? I may be reading it wrong, but the version of the NDAA 2023 that pops up on Congress' page looks like it shows increases of Flight pay to $1,500 max and Pilot Bonus to $75,000 per year max. Not Sure if this is an old committee version or what, so the $50K Bonus may be accurate, just the first time I recall seeing that. Here's the verbiage from Congress' website (Aviation portions in BOLD and amends the monthly Flight Pay and Bonus sections of pertinent law): SEC. 612. INCREASE TO MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF CERTAIN BONUS AND SPECIAL PAY AUTHORITIES. (a) General Bonus Authority for Enlisted Members.--Section 331(c)(1) of title 37, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ``$50,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ``$30,000'' and inserting ``$50,000''. (b) Special Bonus and Incentive Pay Authorities for Nuclear Officers.--Section 333(d)(1)(A) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking ``$50,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''. (c) Special Aviation Incentive Pay and Bonus Authorities for Officers.--Section 334(c)(1) of title 37, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ``$1,000'' and inserting ``$1,500''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ``$35,000'' and inserting ``$75,000''. (d) Skill Incentive Pay or Proficiency Bonus.--Section 353(c)(1)(A) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking ``$1,000'' and inserting ``$1,750''. PDF Page 534, Taken from https://armedservices.house.gov/ndaa. Quoted above may have been an amendment prior to agreement. Edited December 13, 2022 by Standby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Standby said: PDF Page 534, Taken from https://armedservices.house.gov/ndaa. Quoted above may have been an amendment prior to agreement. Ya, but have you checked the DOD SUP, the AF SUP and the (insert your majcom here) SUP? Sorry...my cynicism is ever increasing lately due to stupid fucking regs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Rose Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Standby said: PDF Page 534, Taken from https://armedservices.house.gov/ndaa. Quoted above may have been an amendment prior to agreement. Thanks. I thought I might be reading an old Senate version with the $75K Bonus verbiage in it. Funny, as a $75K bonus might have been just enough tp actually make a dent in retention. A $50K bonus likely isn't enough to move the needle at all from where we are currently IMO. As usual, the US Gov't cheaps out... Edited December 13, 2022 by Hunter Rose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger41 Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Budget passed the senate. We’ll see what HAF decides for ACP offerings… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Sounds similar to airline contract negotiations. Maybe some informational pickets will set AF Mgmt straight. Some baggage bling, a lanyard, and stickers for urinals will send the message. OR. Just start showing off UAL, DAL, AA, SWA, etc., bling. Have some fun out there, wish you all the best. I think you'll get it because the AF probably asked for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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