Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Lawman]

Just to be clear, I in no way support a 20 year pilot ADSC, I’m just saying that’s the ultimate way to assure retention - not letting people leave from day 1.

Sadly it would also raise the collective quality of individuals at the higher echelons of career.

It’s no secret a whole lot of quality people with options and brains to be successful by and large leave, especially now with the pension having been changed to less lucrative from what it was. We are left with a depleted total talent pool to make LtCols out of… now while you effectively make the careerist mindset more cutthroat you also make it far easier to S-can that guy who can barely spell and shouldn’t be running a lemonade stand much less a squadron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StoleIt]

I could also see the AF pitching 20 year pilot ADSC's.

Which should be considered a predatory loan or some sort of indentured servitude, though. There needs to be some sort of mechanism to protect enthusiastic, misguided, brainwashed 21 year-old's from an exploitative and unfair contract.

I could totally see enthusiastic, ROTC cadet, past me signing that. And, in that scenario, current me would 100% hate and loath my former ROTC Cadre for basically being willing to knowingly sell me into an unfair, biased, and unconscionable contract.

Let's hope that COA (and stop loss) are never seriously considered by the geniuses at the ARTF & AFPC.

[Danger41]

I guarantee I would’ve signed that at 22.

[Lawman]

I guarantee I would’ve signed that at 22.

“I’m gonna get to fly Jets right?”

Let’s just admit the only difference better the 20 year old versions of ourselves and others who decided to trade it in for something is the type of couch we were sitting on when we “agreed to it.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guardian]

Then Douche generals like Goldfien will sit you behind a desk for 15 of your 20 because you are a volunteer.

[HeloDude]

4 hours ago, StoleIt said:

Which should be considered a predatory loan or some sort of indentured servitude, though. There needs to be some sort of mechanism to protect enthusiastic, misguided, brainwashed 21 year-old's from an exploitative and unfair contract.

If 20 years is “predatory”, then what isn’t?  18 years, 16 years?…10 years?

And young people sign contracts/documents that can change their lives all the time…a regular enlistment, purchasing a house, a school loan, changing your genitals, you name it.  You’re either an adult (who can vote for a president with the ability to destroy nations), or you’re not.

It’s not that young people don’t often know what they’re signing…it’s just that at the time they’re ok with it.  How many people are happy when they get married vs those who get divorced.  It’s a future-them problem.

[StoleIt]

53 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

If 20 years is “predatory”, then what isn’t?  18 years, 16 years?…10 years?

And young people sign contracts/documents that can change their lives all the time…a regular enlistment, purchasing a house, a school loan, changing your genitals, you name it.  You’re either an adult (who can vote for a president with the ability to destroy nations), or you’re not.

It’s not that young people don’t often know what they’re signing…it’s just that at the time they’re ok with it.  How many people are happy when they get married vs those who get divorced.  It’s a future-them problem.

I could at least believe, or stomach, that it's a 10 year ADSC because of the "cost" of training us...or so I was told. Has the cost gone up? I'd argue it's gone down with all the cuts in flying training. Allegedly, the ADSC used to be part of a financial investment calculus...if they increase it any it's just a retention tool, IMO.

Also, all those other contracts you mentioned (except school loans), you can bail on in some way or another (and Biden gave the school loan people $10k anyway).

Imagine if marriage really was until death...how many Kings created new branches of Christianity just because they changed their mind?

[Clark Griswold]

The adsc should be linked to the amount of / quality of training 

The more they cut in flight hours the less Congress should let them set high adscs 

 

[Bigred]

1 hour ago, StoleIt said:

I could at least believe, or stomach, that it's a 10 year ADSC because of the "cost" of training us...or so I was told. Has the cost gone up? I'd argue it's gone down with all the cuts in flying training. Allegedly, the ADSC used to be part of a financial investment calculus...if they increase it any it's just a retention tool, IMO.

Also, all those other contracts you mentioned (except school loans), you can bail on in some way or another (and Biden gave the school loan people $10k anyway).

Imagine if marriage really was until death...how many Kings created new branches of Christianity just because they changed their mind?

I doubt it’s a cost thing because the Navy doesn’t require 10 years, and I doubt they have the WalMart brand F-18s just to save money. 
 

When I was in Navy flight school, after winging helo guys only had a seven year comittment, everyone else had eight. They changed it to eight for everyone around 2006-7.

If I were to guess, the AF set it at 10 because they felt that’s what they could get dudes to agree to without negatively impacting accessions. I know if I was 22 and told I had to sign a 20 year contract, I have said hell no. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Bigred

[Bigred]

3 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I doubt it’s a cost thing because the Navy doesn’t require 10 years, and I doubt they have the WalMart brand F-18s just to save money. 
 

When I was in Navy flight school, after winging helo guys only had a seven year comittment, everyone else had eight. They changed it to eight for everyone around 2006-7.

If I were to guess, the AF set it at 10 because they felt that’s what they could get dudes to agree to without negatively impacting accessions. I know if I was 22 and told I had to sign a 20 year contract, I would have said hell no. 

 

 

 

[guineapigfury]

9 hours ago, StoleIt said:

I could also see the AF pitching 20 year pilot ADSC's.

Which should be considered a predatory loan or some sort of indentured servitude, though. There needs to be some sort of mechanism to protect enthusiastic, misguided, brainwashed 21 year-old's from an exploitative and unfair contract.

I could totally see enthusiastic, ROTC cadet, past me signing that. And, in that scenario, current me would 100% hate and loath my former ROTC Cadre for basically being willing to knowingly sell me into an unfair, biased, and unconscionable contract.

Let's hope that COA (and stop loss) are never seriously considered by the geniuses at the ARTF & AFPC.

The mechanism is getting passed over for promotion twice.  Then you're a free agent.  It worked for me.  I loved telling people that I had two years left on my ADSC while I walked around with a beard and polo shirt and hands in my pockets.  That said 20 year contracts are unconscionable.

[CaptainMorgan]

The mechanism is getting passed over for promotion twice.  Then you're a free agent.  It worked for me.  I loved telling people that I had two years left on my ADSC while I walked around with a beard and polo shirt and hands in my pockets.  That said 20 year contracts are unconscionable.

Twice passed over might be a thing of the past as they transition to the 5-look system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lawman]

Twice passed over might be a thing of the past as they transition to the 5-look system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or realize there are literally more non flying stupid jobs than can possibly be staffed, and now you’ve got a population that literally can’t threaten walking papers. “Oh you didn’t make O4/5/6 and are now 3 years AZ. Well I have this opportunity at Fort Polk….”

Like I said, the careerist mindset will be a lot more cutthroat. Not because you’re trying to make rank, but more because you’re trying to “stay in the air conditioning.”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Standby]

NDAA 2023 authorizes service secretaries to approve an increase to the flight pay cap from $1000/mo to $1500/mo. Additionally, authorizes bonus yearly cap increase to $50k/yr.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Standby

[viperdriver1313]

My guess is they have to up everything to what they authorize (50k/1500).

These new airline contracts that can somewhat follow suit to delta will make it an interesting timeline and good for anyone. 

[Swizzle]

Watch, it will take a full year to implement…

[Homestar]

6 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

Watch, it will take a full year to implement…

Or never

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Watch, it will take a full year to implement…

 

 

Then it will take another 5 years for DFAS to figure out how to change some 1's and 0's to have the flight pay actually pay correctly...

[uhhello]

19 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

 

Then it will take another 5 years for DFAS to figure out how to change some 1's and 0's to have the flight pay actually pay correctly...

https://www.pilotonline.com/military/article_5620aed1-d34e-5421-addb-ea98a38ba0b4.html

Read this old article and steel yourself that you just might be right 🙂

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, uhhello said:

https://www.pilotonline.com/military/article_5620aed1-d34e-5421-addb-ea98a38ba0b4.html

Read this old article and steel yourself that you just might be right 🙂

 

 

Oh I have little confidence DFAS and assume I won't be far off.  I was told in 2018 there would be an new system in 2020 that would allow our flight pay to pay correctly.  Well, we (DSGs) still get paid our flt pay paid via one of those "manual workarounds" they mention in the article, and that pay system still hasn't materialized.  Also, a squadron mate fought an epic battle with DFAS (too confusing to type) and actually won out, but it took getting congressman involved.  I'm constantly reminded of how inept they are at DFAS. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by SocialD

[Guest nsplayr]

Has there been any progress on seeing an entire month’s or flight pay for just attending drill for DSGs? I thought that was part of the last NDAA but maybe it was only talked about. I’ve been on full-time orders for a bit so I haven’t kept track super closely.

My going assumption is that it’s the law but DFAS somehow can’t execute it so…fuck us apparently 🤷‍♂️

[pawnman]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:20 PM, Standby said:

NDAA 2023 authorizes service secretaries to approve an increase to the flight pay cap from $1000/mo to $1500/mo. Additionally, authorizes bonus yearly cap increase to $50k/yr.

After seeing big Air Force drag their feet on using the full authorized amount for bonuses, I'm not optimistic about seeing $1500/ month flight pay. Especially when we have B-21s to pay for. 

[tac airlifter]

Sounds like it’s time for the USAF to initiate a study on the topic.  Maybe some surveys.  I’m sure it’ll all be fixed right after.

[Guest nsplayr]

15 hours ago, pawnman said:

Especially when we have B-21s to pay for. 

It’s fine, we’ll only buy 3 of them and they’ll cost $6.9T a piece once you factor in R&D costs 🤣😑

But nah we can’t possibly pay pilots more to stay or even just execute on pay changes already authored by law…

[di1630]

I’d rather cut all the dead weight personnel than new tech.

At my base if you got rid of all the NCO’s that are sucking up $60k per year struggling to justify their existence you could give each pilot a $100k+ bonus and still save money.