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disgruntledemployee

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Disagree with the “intentionally meant to not be taken seriously“ assessment. I didn’t see it that way at all. Pretty sure he wasn’t intending to joke. But you can and will believe whatever you want. Regardless my point stands. No way Trump gets a pass on a statement like that. Regardless of his clear intent.


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13 hours ago, pcola said:


That’s exactly my point. Media bias plain and clear. 4 years of everything Trump said being dissected, misrepresented, “fact checked”, dramatized, then proclaimed as evil from the mountain top of literally every single liberal media outlet in existence. And now every crazy ass statement from Biden and it’s “nothing to see here, moving along, oh isn’t he just wonderful!” The current state of our so-called news reporting is laughable at best, but probably more appropriately labeled shameful.


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That's fair

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7 hours ago, slackline said:


Isn’t there a clear difference between quirky, intentionally meant to not be taken seriously vs the things Trump has said while being 100% serious? You guys aren’t being honest with yourselves if you claim this is proof of some kind of bogus double standard.

We all know that many news sources have a left leaning bias. Saying that this is an example of that is silly, and hurts what would be credible complaints going forward. It will all turn to noise if you try to hold up everything he says with an actual sense of humor as “oh, see, he’s losing his mental capacity...” or “oh, see, the media is in love with him and was super mean to Trump!”

Trump’s craziness was, and there are thousands of tweets out there to back this up, put out there with a straight face.

What am I reading wrong here?


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No. There isn't. Literally hundreds of things Trump said we're clearly not meant to be taken literally but the Media flared on them. If you can recognize there is no difference in this remark and hundreds of Trump's, you are either a.) Not being honest or b.) Incapable of seeing past your bias. In either case you need to do some self reflection. 

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7 hours ago, slackline said:


Why is it so hard for Trump fans to admit that the man lied constantly? The man lied non-stop. If that word is too strong for you, he stretched the “facts” or presented “alternate facts” constantly.

Obama got that treatment from Fox News. Bush avoided it mostly because it wasn’t really happening yet.

Not an individual attack on pcola, but in general, the right needs to stop with the crocodile tears about just how unfairly Trump was treated. He invited it, relished it even. Played to his base like a charm. Apparently there are people on here eating it up still...


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 In not a Trump fan. In fact I'm actually excited about something's Biden might bring. But I disdain our hipocripocrasy in society. It 1.) Serves to further divide our country and 2.) Doesn't hold our officials accountable by redirecting blame on the opposite party. 

All politicians lie.  Trump was actually extraordinarily honest to the extent that he actually promoted policy that he campaigned on, something we don't usually see from politicians. Biden came from an administration that lied constantly about some extraordinarily important things. Using your own doctor, how the war in Iraq/Syria was going, the extent to which the US used drone strikes as a foreign policy tool, etc...

Well all have a duty to try and wake up to our bias. 

 

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7 hours ago, FLEA said:
 In not a Trump fan. In fact I'm actually excited about something's Biden might bring. But I disdain our hipocripocrasy in society. It 1.) Serves to further divide our country and 2.) Doesn't hold our officials accountable by redirecting blame on the opposite party. 
All politicians lie.  Trump was actually extraordinarily honest to the extent that he actually promoted policy that he campaigned on, something we don't usually see from politicians. Biden came from an administration that lied constantly about some extraordinarily important things. Using your own doctor, how the war in Iraq/Syria was going, the extent to which the US used drone strikes as a foreign policy tool, etc...
Well all have a duty to try and wake up to our bias. 
 


That’s fair. I completely agree that the Obama admin lied about the things you’re accusing them of. What else? You claim I need self-reflection? Here’s some reflection on promises kept vs not. Not an apples to apples comparison on lies, but the best I could do to attempt to show something that wouldn’t be claimed as liberal media.
https://guides.libs.uga.edu/factchecknews - Showing it is a non-partisan fact-checker

Obamameter- https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/?ruling=true

Trump-o-meter- https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/?ruling=true

By sheer volume alone, Obama broke 5x more promises, but he also fulfilled 10x more and had some kind of compromise on 7x more promises than Trump. Using this scale you could say he lied about way more I guess, so I’ll give you that. You’d also have to recognize that he accomplished way more if we’re using this as any kind of metric. This hurts to see for me because I was not a fan of Obama either.

James P. Pfiffner, VN vet, military scholar, solid, respectable dude and expert in this field wrote a paper talking about this (https://pfiffner.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Pfiffner-The-Lies-of-Donald-Trump-A-Taxonomy.pdf) In it he says something we all agree on, all presidents lie. He also goes on to show that Trump does it more than any previous president, and not just in quantity, but the level of serious topics about which he lies is more egregious than past presidents. This isn’t me (someone who detests democrats as much as, maybe more than republicans) just trying to hide my bias against Trump, this is me attacking what people on the right continue to excuse, apologize for and rationalize as Trump’s lies. People say the media is “mean” and “unfair” to Trump. I’ll agree that they hold his feet to the fire more, and blow things out of context more than they have for previous presidents, but only after Trump proved he was willing to have a very, very loose relationship with the truth. He started lying, name calling and straight-up making bogus statements before he even announced his candidacy. Only then did the media start to treat him like a hostile witness.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/28/why-do-fact-checkers-find-more-false-statements-from-trump-than-biden/42343935/ (media bias, right of center https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/columbus-dispatch/ ) Occam’s razor says the simplest explanation is often the right explanation. Trump simply lies way more than most other presidents. (edited to remove some hyperbole)


Completely agree with you that all politicians lie, it’s like they have a disease or something. Hence why I said our country needs a reset on all politicians from all parties. Set up some new rules, and hold them accountable.

TLDR/ People claiming Trump was on the same level as any president before him are hiding under a rock from the mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise. All politicians lie, Trump just does it on a scale that is simply way more than most other politicians. His lies hurt not only our country on the world stage, but they hurt democracy as well.


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I guess it’s just pointless to compare which president lied more. What’s probably more useful is actually calling out specific lies or patterns. I think the impact of some of the lies the last few years have been worse than usual when it comes to the future of America

For example, Trump’s immediate “Fake News” response to any news that he didn’t like has done more to drive a wedge between this country than any other president in recent history. No one trusts anybody anymore. There’s some potential good in being skeptical of information, sure, but it’s not panning out that way. Now a higher than ever number of people enjoy calling themselves anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists. Dumbasses have a platform where they can get to an echo chamber (the Internet), which does much more harm than good.

Also his recent inane rants on how he “won” the election are setting up a large portion of the country to not believe in democracy. Combining these with the Facebook propaganda machine are mobilizing a bunch of idiots, without any real evidence. Over the last month, I’ve seen multiple full militias (10-20 people) out eating with their guns to... intimidate the liberals? I’ve never seen that before. This is how home grown extremism/authoritarianism starts: with a healthy amount of disinformation and distrust of your fellow countrymen.

You guys are gonna come back and say that the dems unfairly discredited the president the same way before his term, but that’s simply not true. I urge you to re-read (Or more than likely, read the first time, as I’m almost certain you got all your info from the news) the mueller report, specifically when it comes to “Individual-1.” I’m predicting Trump will pardon himself and his family before he’s gone, but this is another example of disinformation gone awry.

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Aaaaand now Rudy has covid. Not gonna lie I'm kind of bummed because him being sidelined greatly reduces the chance that trump will fulfill my prediction and fire him before this is all over. 
 

It does make you wonder though.. how many other people did Rudy infect as he bounced around the country flagrantly disregarding covid guidelines.  Maybe this will finally be the moment where die hard right wingers realize the Trump/Giuliani clown show is detrimental to their own side. It's okay guys, some people are just slow to catch on...
 

It only took them trying to undermine our entire election system while simultaneously infecting state and local republicans with a deadly disease through pure negligence. 

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38 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Aaaaand now Rudy has covid. Not gonna lie I'm kind of bummed because him being sidelined greatly reduces the chance that trump will fulfill my prediction and fire him before this is all over. 
 

It does make you wonder though.. how many other people did Rudy infect as he bounced around the country flagrantly disregarding covid guidelines.  Maybe this will finally be the moment where die hard right wingers realize the Trump/Giuliani clown show is detrimental to their own side. It's okay guys, some people are just slow to catch on...
 

It only took them trying to undermine our entire election system while simultaneously infecting state and local republicans with a deadly disease through pure negligence. 

Unfortunately, I don't think there's ever a point when the die hard right wingers will realize that.  Makes it tough for conservatives who actually want to move the ball forward.

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Unfortunately, I don't think there's ever a point when the die hard right wingers will realize that.  Makes it tough for conservatives who actually want to move the ball forward.

The fringe left works the same way, but the difference is that their mainstream doesn't allow the fringe ideas to dominate the conversation. The mainstream left has certainly embraced that side of the party, with Sanders, AOC, Warren et al. If Trump had won this general election though, no chance you'd see 75% of the house Democrats refusing to acknowledge it, or discussions about sending a pro-Dem slate of electors forward anyway, etc. Embracing that level of kookiness would destroy the future prospects of the party, which are already not looking bright for the Dems.

As you said, they'd like to keep moving the ball, without being hijacked by the extreme crazies in the party. I'm shocked that the GOP is allowing it to happen. What on earth for? They're no longer beholden to Trump, they're likely to keep the senate, just jettison your dead orange weight and start thinking pragmatically about 2022 midterms and beyond. 

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9 hours ago, Waingro said:

The fringe left works the same way, but the difference is that their mainstream doesn't allow the fringe ideas to dominate the conversation. The mainstream left has certainly embraced that side of the party, with Sanders, AOC, Warren et al. If Trump had won this general election though, no chance you'd see 75% of the house Democrats refusing to acknowledge it, or discussions about sending a pro-Dem slate of electors forward anyway, etc. Embracing that level of kookiness would destroy the future prospects of the party, which are already not looking bright for the Dems.

As you said, they'd like to keep moving the ball, without being hijacked by the extreme crazies in the party. I'm shocked that the GOP is allowing it to happen. What on earth for? They're no longer beholden to Trump, they're likely to keep the senate, just jettison your dead orange weight and start thinking pragmatically about 2022 midterms and beyond. 

To quote a famous TV show, “Follow the money”.  The Trump campaign has raised over $200 million since Election Day, much of it with no strings attached in regards to spending.

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12 hours ago, Waingro said:

The fringe left works the same way, but the difference is that their mainstream doesn't allow the fringe ideas to dominate the conversation. The mainstream left has certainly embraced that side of the party, with Sanders, AOC, Warren et al. If Trump had won this general election though, no chance you'd see 75% of the house Democrats refusing to acknowledge it, or discussions about sending a pro-Dem slate of electors forward anyway, etc. Embracing that level of kookiness would destroy the future prospects of the party, which are already not looking bright for the Dems.

As you said, they'd like to keep moving the ball, without being hijacked by the extreme crazies in the party. I'm shocked that the GOP is allowing it to happen. What on earth for? They're no longer beholden to Trump, they're likely to keep the senate, just jettison your dead orange weight and start thinking pragmatically about 2022 midterms and beyond. 

Perhaps Loyalty? They can thank Trump and his relentless exposure of lunatics like AOC and Sanders for bringing in more conservative votes. Trump is not dead orange weight whether you like him or not.  He’s inspired a new wave of conservatism that goes for the throat of neocons like the toxic Bush family.  First president to not get us in a new foreign conflict; in fact he is ending many of them (granted I get to miss Christmas for one of them but that’s neither here nor there).  Trump isn’t going anywhere, whether that means he starts his own cable news network to rival Fox News or runs again in 2024 (I hope the latter because I love seeing the left so triggered about him.)  

Also, generally speaking, Biden is irrelevant in this conversation much like he is as a person, he will be shoved aside for Kamala and sit and watch like a dolt as the radical left starts to take over.  

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2 hours ago, dream big said:

Also, generally speaking, Biden is irrelevant in this conversation much like he is as a person, he will be shoved aside for Kamala and sit and watch like a dolt as the radical left starts to take over.  

I find this sentiment hilarious.  I guess Biden has no say in the matter...  What proof do you guys have that this is what they have planned?  How would you say they're going to enforce this crazy idea?  Still working on the whole dementia thing?  Let me know how that works out for you.  

No fan of the guy, but I highly doubt he is intentionally going to be cool with people trying to sideline him, if in fact, these crazy ideas are what the nuts on the left intend.  I doubt they do, even if they want to.  It's a non-starter because it just falls DOA as an idea with no merit.  Dude just won the highest office in the land, could still argue if Trump hasn't done too much damage, the world.  That's gotta be more than a little empowering, and my bet is that the man aint gonna stand idly by while people try to cram radical ideas down our throats.  He'll do what he has to do, compromise and give some (highly likely that he gives more ground to the left because he's a democrat after all) ground to the left, and little to the right.  He's not suicidal, he's not gonna just start giving the right whatever they want.  Both sides of the aisle have proven they're cool with accomplishing nothing, so that's probably what will happen here.  Hopefully he'll continue on a similar path with China, hopefully he'll do some good for the environment.  After that, he won't do much good or bad...  

 

 

Wanted to add I love how the left is attacking their own demi-god, Obama because he hit the nail on the head regarding the whole "defund the police" messaging.  He didn't shoot down the idea of re-allocating some funding, or fixing training focus areas, he simply said something along the lines of "snappy slogans like Defund the Police won't win you many supporters."  He's 100% correct, they shoot themselves in the foot when they go for the snappy slogan that fires up the extremists, thereby hurting a cause that is actually legitimate, fixing the many problems in the way our country polices its people (from calling cops to deal with mental health issues, to helping someone who locked themselves out of their house to dealing with violent criminals or domestic disputes to racial profiling, etc.).  But no, the left, people like Omar and AOC, and some senator from ATL I can't remember started to eat their own... Our country's politicians are so stupid most of the time <---- I had sometimes, but changed it to most of the time.

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19 hours ago, Prozac said:

Trump’s potential 2024 run will keep a lot of conservatives in his court. It also has the potential to split the party (a few Republicans are finally getting sick of his shit) and give four more years to Dems. 

That’s assuming we see the Dems acting responsibly with power... and that’s a hell of an assumption.

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11 hours ago, Homestar said:

Trump will make more money as a former President than he did as president. Once he realizes this you’ll see him walk away. 

That logic falls flat when you consider that Trump gave up an insane amount of money to be President. The dude loves the fame, no doubt about it, but he didn’t become POTUS to get rich, no one does. 

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7 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

What does that mean?

Never-Trumpers aren't going to just walk over from R to D wholesale if a potentially all Democrat-led government does things like add states, increase SCOTUS justices, Green New Deal, etc. They'll just stay R and try to defeat Trump in a primary. If Democrats govern in a moderate (in my opinion responsible) fashion, then sure, that type of a change could be possible.

I just don't see it happening with the people Biden is picking, and the power struggle going on between the left and Democrats.

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6 hours ago, dream big said:

That logic falls flat when you consider that Trump gave up an insane amount of money to be President. The dude loves the fame, no doubt about it, but he didn’t become POTUS to get rich, no one does. 

No, he ran for President for the power (like everyone does) and he’ll use his status as ex-president to get rich (like they all do). Once he realizes how rich he can make himself as ex-President all the 2024 nonsense will stop.  

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6 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

Never-Trumpers aren't going to just walk over from R to D wholesale if a potentially all Democrat-led government does things like add states, increase SCOTUS justices, Green New Deal, etc. They'll just stay R and try to defeat Trump in a primary. If Democrats govern in a moderate (in my opinion responsible) fashion, then sure, that type of a change could be possible.

I just don't see it happening with the people Biden is picking, and the power struggle going on between the left and Democrats.

What is your vision of moderate democrat positions that would make Republicans happy?  

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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/texas-sues-georgia-michigan-pennsylvania-and-wisconsin-at-supreme-court-election-rules/

Quote

Texas argues that these states violated the Electors Clause of the Constitution because they made changes to voting rules and procedures through the courts or through executive actions, but not through the state legislatures. Additionally, Texas argues that there were differences in voting rules and procedures in different counties within the states, violating the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause. Finally, Texas argues that there were “voting irregularities” in these states as a result of the above.

Texas is asking the Supreme Court to order the states to allow their legislatures to appoint their electors. 

https://www.scribd.com/document/487348469/TX-v-State-Motion-2020-12-07-FINAL

Link to lawsuit. 

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1 hour ago, Sim said:

This has as much chance as every other "legitimate" lawsuit that's been filed so far, and is about as absurdly obvious as a desperate attempt to stop the inevitable...

 

I'm sure SCOTUS is dying to let Texas stomp all over other state's rights.  It would be a great precedent.  I wonder how Texas would respond if someone tried to force them to do something the Lonestar State didn't want to.

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