Negatory

This is the actual end of the thread. We're addressing the argument that evangelicals voted for Trump, right? You're saying that it's made up. Embrace the facts homie. White evangelical protestants voted republican 6 times more often than they voted democrat. Catholics 5 to 4. LDS 3 to 1. Do you want more evidence of this stupid ass claim that you are denying for no reason? By the way, these are rational, cogent arguments based on data, so stop with the BS about the connection being "tenuous at best" and inappropriate in "rational debate." You're making yourself look intentionally obtuse. Also, you CAN very easily say that democrats support BLM. That is backed by data. In 2023, 84% of dems support it. Only 17% of republicans do. What is wrong with you saying this? This is a RATIONAL argument. Doubt. Here i'll respond to this appeal to emotion right here! I hope this atones for "our" sins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_balance Congressman Hank Johnson on Guam tipping over - how is this person in charge Democrat saying the moon is made of gas - this person should lose their job permanently Ilhan Omar on Israel Palestine - wtf Extreme leftists on LGBTQIA transgender issues that don't matter - stupid AF and not important Extreme leftists on welfare or UBI for no reason with no plan - fuck off Nancy Pelosi engaging in obviously unethical stock trading - let's figure out what crime this is Joe Biden losing his mind due to dementia - please for the love of god give me a new candidate, but you better believe that I will also call out Trump for being senile Biden mishandling classified documents - investigate Clinton mishandling classified - investigate Political appointees in the IC playing divisive political games in 2016-2020 - this is fucked Is there anyone else you want "us" to call out specifically so that you can feel like we are more fair? Did we miss some required condemnation thread? Please send a flyer next time. To end this pointless defense of the indefensible (that there isn't as much difference between basic, non-extreme, R's and D's as this R-focused echo-chamber that is baseops likes to believe), have I missed the R's on this board being critical of R politicians making seditious comments (just quoted), the assault on the capitol on Jan 6 done by republican fringes, or the minimization of Trump's classified mishandling/financial crimes? It's whataboutism at its finest, there is no moral high ground brochacho, it's literally just your feelings. Pathos arguments work well I guess when you don't have a logos or ethos argument. Also, mods need to move to move this thread to the squadron bar. This is stupid AF to have a political circlejerk on the main page that some random UPT student is going to come across as they're looking for info about flying in the Air Force.

There’s absolutely an argument. Marjorie Taylor Greene says states should “consider seceding from the union” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/marjorie-taylor-greene-states-consider-seceding-from-the-union-1234822567/ Why don’t we just agree both sides are terrible and divisive? Because your identity is tied into a made up reductionist construct of a political party?

Oh, a brain dead take on political issues on base ops. Who would have guessed. You (specifically) can’t help but make false equivalencies and invalid broad generalizations, which you demonstrate literally every single day you post here. The truth is that Americans support way more nuance in this discussion than your backwards reductionist views. The majority of Americans do not support abortion past 24 weeks. Only 19% of Americans believe abortion should be legal with no strings attached. Oh that’s against the narrative you’re stating? Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/ A lot of people think that it should be allowed in extreme cases beyond an arbitrary time stamp (guaranteed non viability, extremely high risk of death, fetus is almost guaranteed dead). This is not the same as when you try to insinuate democrats support anyone - for any reason as flippant as they just don’t feel like it - should be able to get a third trimester abortion. THATS AN EXTREME VIEW DEMOCRATS DONT EVEN SUPPORT. But it’s in talk radio. You’ve been propagandized. You have to know this, right? But I guess you couldn’t win this argument without bending reality or convincing yourself of some slightly flawed logic. Finally, you guys are wrong about the potential of this to be perceived as just a states rights issue. This is a big deal. To the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, this was a fundamental attack on Women’s and men’s rights to plan their families. That’s how the majority of Americans (and a supermajority of Democrats) feel, and the longer you try to pretend it’s just a legal battle or was justified via some federalist debate, the longer you lose. Just telling you the truth. Here’s a graph showing how republicans are actively losing the support of independents across the country. 57 to 41, that’s not even close. Now that we’ve had a good time debunking the logical basis of your arguments, let’s go to the emotional way you’re losing this debate (and with it, the American people’s support): Go ahead and explain why does it affect your poor Christian family if another family that you have never interacted with gets an abortion 2 cities over? Get out of people’s lives. Also, are you suddenly okay with it if it’s just across state borders? Choose a side. If you’re gonna play the pathos argument and then go straight to a legal logos you just sound disingenuous. Which you are. But you sound like it, too. Oh, and is it really a states right thing? Or is it an overreaching control over everyone thing? Why is Texas trying to inhibit the ability for federal citizens to go to states that align with their views to enjoy the freedoms of those states? https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/west-texas-county-bans-travel-roads-seeking-abortion-104256476 Shit like that is what Republicans laugh about. It’s what the rest of Americans are terrified of. That’s a disadvantage for y’all, sorry.

Maybe that’s how you fix it then. Codify ethnical and legal standards for media. Maybe make a journalists oath similar to the hippocratic oath. I am sure you could do that in a non biased way if we could just get our heads out of our asses. And yes, that means potential limitations of lying or being close to lying on the freedom of the press. And before anyone says that’s unconstitutional, it’s not. We have limitations on almost every right we have (hate speech, over sexualized content, regular citizens can’t have nukes, etc.). The US has to have a serious talk about how the Information Age is making us vulnerable to being controlled by foreign entities.

You really can’t handle having a big boy discussion without bringing in political labels (that are wrong), can you? Nothing I said was political, but you have to bring it back to some super dumb take. Literally you just can’t fathom that we have similarity between our views. MAGA bro.

Israel and the West, specifically the US, are hardcore losing the info war. Seeing some of these high school and college age idiots supporting hamas simply because they are being inundated by TikTok propaganda makes me think we actually should do something. Susceptibility to disinformation is a legitimate vulnerability of democratic societies. How do you fix that?

Real “I’m a tough guy” vibes flowing. Half of Gazas population is under 18 and 70% are 29 or younger. You’re effectively asking blunted, uneducated, young people with no resources - who grew up surrounded by a cult and have been oppressed their whole lives - to just take it into their hands to have an epiphany and “kill the hoodlums.” Oh, it’s also impossible for regular citizens to get weapons, the “hoodlums” are actual savage terrorists, and if you kill them you’ll be likely labeled a terrorist yourself when the narrative is convenient (see the Kurds). I’m sure you’re also appalled by all the Texans who know there are drug dealers crossing the border - whose drugs make it deep into America - and those Texans don’t “just kill” those “motherf*ckers.” There are a lot of useless 15 year olds in Texas, tell ya what.

Just want to point out that folks like you are why alternative viewpoints don’t engage, and why this place has gently flowed back into being the echo chamber it’s always been. Here’s a pretty comprehensive view of why people believe that Israel is still oppressing Palestine, although I know this will be dismissed for no logical reason: https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/MDE1551412022ENGLISH.pdf Want to be clear, I don’t support Hamas or anyone who does. You seem to be getting your parties in a wad, but you don’t even understand why.

There are extreme leftists that are supporting small scale demonstrations that conservative media are significantly overblowing to play on YOUR (specifically) feelings and keep up the narrative that we are mortal enemies and diametrically opposed. Even Ocasio-Cortez condemned the demonstrations supporting Palestine. My point was that he wasn’t going to find someone on this forum that is pro Hamas’s actions. Because it’s a very rare viewpoint right now, including democrats or liberals. Everyone I know is fucking sickened.

I think it’s dumb to apply viewpoints hyperbolically both directions. I think you’ll find that the views you’re so riled up about are not as well held as you think. Even Ocasio-Cortez condemned the Palestinian support protests - one of the most “leftist” people you irrationally despise. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119687 I think that Rep. Tlaib and Bush are morons and wrong. They are capitalizing on human loss to get political points. Honestly, they’re sickening. Simultaneously, I think the Harvard students who released a letter are technically correct, albeit still wrong about when to talk about this - Israel has contributed to Israel-Palestine instability via effectively running an apartheid state. But it doesn’t excuse terrorist acts. I honestly see how f’d politics is from a Palestinian perspective, and I think you can too. US, EU, and Israel all deciding to admire the problem that Palestinians were effectively living in a penal colony for the last few decades contributed to this occurring. I also see how Palestine are morons and didn’t accept multiple potential compromises over the last 40 years.

Hi, so called “leftist” Ron Burgundy here. If you think that anyone who is slightly liberal supports Hamas, I think you’re confused. As CH said, kill them all. Painfully, preferably. (I’d also like to take this moment to reiterate that no one on this forum is a leftist, your views and biases are so skewed though that I’ll be your huckleberry) Let’s pretend you were looking for nuanced viewpoints. A total war against Palestine is gonna be counterproductive. You’re gonna create more terrorists and Arab nations that are united against Israel - not less. We saw this with the resurgence of Al Qaeda and ISIS. I’m sure you learned this in your service. Getting drawn into the total war trap will be analogous to how the US overcommitted into the Middle East in 2001/2003, resulting in basically the degradation of our own empire and supremacy over the last 20 years for basically nothing! Hamas/Iran WANT this response. Now ask “why?” History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes. It wouldn’t be the first time civilized nations with very capable militaries are defeated because they didn’t understand the enemy’s centers of gravity (spoiler: it’s not in the people of Palestine). Israel must avoid being emotional, just like we should have in the early 2000s. Now, can they conduct a surgical campaign to kill a bunch of terrorists and save their folks, while simultaneously backing out quickly enough to maintain foreign relations and not destroy their economy? Time will tell. What is not tenable? Another united Arab states war that drives Israel to be a lone island reliant on the U.S. Or, alternatively, I guess you could argue Islam and Judaism/Christianity aren’t compatible. Crusades circa 2024? Glass em all!

If your metric for whether or not things are good is “are they better than the 80s, 90s, or 2000s,” I’ve got bad news for you. America’s extremely rare 60-year global unipolar dominance and being able to benefit from the rest of the world blowing its infrastructure up during WWII is over. There are actually a lot of arguments that being an American in 2019 or 2007 represents the best average life circumstances humans will experience for a long time. Good evidence that being a boomer or a gen x in America = best life humans have ever had, and will maintain that status for the next few generations. See Principles of a Changing World Order by Ray Dalio. Quantitative easing by both parties, immense overspending by both parties, collosal defense and policy failures in the Middle East wars, a lack of focus on infrastructure or investment, and real great power competition equals worse times for the foreseeable future. There is no easy way out, and no political agenda that will just magically fix it.

Dumb and distorted. We have hit 1.0C, are going to hit 1.5C of warming shortly, and are well on our way to 4+. What does that mean? It means your children are gonna have much tougher lives. And the point of the quote was not that we would die in 5 years, but that there would be mass deaths in the future if fossil fuels were not significantly curtailed by 2023. But that’s standard for you, you just don’t know how to read. Sorry that a kid is trying to reduce fossil fuel usage because of actual global warming, and that the right wing media has literally convinced you to hate her. It’s sad to look at. And I’m sure it’s hard for you to always be so mad about everything. Also, it’s a typical pattern to have a fallacy on here, but it’s always worthwhile to point out: No one said we needed to disproportionally affect industrializing societies over already industrialized. In fact, the VAST majority of emissions are due to first world consumption and production (US, China, EU). So we could just cut YOUR (and people like your) emissions, and that would be the 90% solution. But you can throw out a totally unrelated point that we should all be able to roll coal in F350s because if we can’t it would hurt Africa. Bro, you (and your base) don’t give a fuck about Africa or the developing world.

From “da libruls”: Trans rights becoming this important is too much emphasis, agreed. I don’t care to overcompensate, and I don’t think the majority of folks actually care. I personally agree that the woke-ness of some of the messaging is terribly annoying and not focused. And we should stop. Also, I agree that the family unit is important, who said it wasn’t? But wealth inequality is an actual problem that needs to be solved. History also shows that the higher wealth inequality goes the worse society gets. And if you look at society from an average 25 year olds eyes, you’d see that American capitalism as is hasnt made much progress since the 1970s when real wages stopped increasing. Wouldn’t recommend you throw totally separate ideals into one set of issues, because it’s harder to find common ground.

Not surprised Brabus. During some of this discourse through the years I actually, at one point, mistakenly thought you were smart.