The Next President is...

[fire4effect]

 

To be fair Robert De Niro and Al Pacino are making more kids to keep paying to keep Social Security solvent for a little while longer. And having more fun while at it.

When does male fertility decline? Men having children late (yahoo.com)

Edited June 2, 2023 by fire4effect
clarite

[Sim]

https://gab.com/realdonaldtrump/posts/110476221459302677

🤣 🤣 🤣

[Prozac]

Thought Nikki Haley presented herself well in CNN’s town hall tonight. I certainly don’t agree with all of her points, but so far, she is the most presentable, well spoken candidate in the race. IMO, it will be hard for Trump, DeSantis, or Joe Biden to debate her. This is the type of candidate both parties should be putting forward. 

[Guest nsplayr]

24 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Thought Nikki Haley presented herself well in CNN’s town hall tonight. I certainly don’t agree with all of her points, but so far, she is the most presentable, well spoken candidate in the race. IMO, it will be hard for Trump, DeSantis, or Joe Biden to debate her. This is the type of candidate both parties should be putting forward. 

I agree, she’s a good candidate. Won’t get very far IMHO unfortunately. She’s much too conservative for me to vote for in a general election, but she seems like a good person and is well qualified to be President as a former governor & ambassador.

I wish her luck and want to see more candidates like her for both parties n the future but…yea I don’t think she’s gonna get far against Trump in this primary.

Edited June 5, 2023 by nsplayr

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

she seems like a good person and is well qualified to be President as a former governor & ambassador

She’s much too conservative for me to vote for in a general election,

Something about these two comments being right next to each other rings of cognitive dissonance.  She's a good pick, but she's conservative so it's a no?   That makes no sense.  You're saying that just because someone is conservative, even if they're the best a good person for the job, you wouldn't vote for them?

By implication you're saying that you would vote for a worse candidate who was more liberal just based on...what?  The excellent results that the liberal left has given us?

Edited June 5, 2023 by FourFans
more factually correct

[brabus]

To be fair he said qualified and a good person, he didn’t say she was hands down the best of the entire field but he’d still pass. 

However, your statement does aptly describe an alarming amount of voters in this country (on both sides). It’s very disheartening to say the least. 

[FourFans]

13 minutes ago, brabus said:

To be fair he said qualified and a good person, he didn’t say she was hands down the best of the entire field but he’d still pass. 

However, your statement does aptly describe an alarming amount of voters in this country (on both sides). It’s very disheartening to say the least. 

A fair point.

But that's what's surprising to me.  People can highlight what they like about a candidate, but still stanchly say 'no' based on a political bias which is founded on a position or on assumptions that wouldn't hold water for 5 minutes when put to actual logical scrutiny.  Is disheartening.  Just like people who voted for President Obama based solely on his skin color, then had the audacity to declare someone else "racist" for questioning that decision process...which I got to experience firsthand.

I feel like critical thought and self-examination are completely extinct these days.

Edited June 5, 2023 by FourFans

[Prozac]

48 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Something about these two comments being right next to each other rings of cognitive dissonance.  She's a good pick, but she's conservative so it's a no?   That makes no sense.  You're saying that just because someone is conservative, even if they're the best a good person for the job, you wouldn't vote for them?

By implication you're saying that you would vote for a worse candidate who was more liberal just based on...what?  The excellent results that the liberal left has given us?

This kind of thought process blows my mind. I can say that someone is capable and qualified to do a job, particularly a political job, while also understanding that they don’t necessarily represent my values as well as another candidate might. You’ve taken this position before & seem to be unable to understand that people may not be willing to vote for a candidate that doesn’t represent their values no matter how “good” they may be. Here’s why I personally like Haley and wish there were more candidates like her: She will force Democratic candidates to be better. They will have to debate on policy rather than on the emotion stirred up on both sides by petty culture war tropes. Good candidates beget better candidates on both sides. Another reason I like her is because candidates like this tend to be far less divisive when they take office. Like nsplayr, I find it difficult to see myself voting for her in a general election. If she were to be elected though, I (and I think most on the left side of the spectrum) would have a much easier time generally supporting her than someone like Donald Trump. 

[FourFans]

12 minutes ago, Prozac said:

This kind of thought process blows my mind. I can say that someone is capable and qualified to do a job, particularly a political job, while also understanding that they don’t necessarily represent my values as well as another candidate might. You’ve taken this position before & seem to be unable to understand that people may not be willing to vote for a candidate that doesn’t represent their values no matter how “good” they may be. Here’s why I personally like Haley and wish there were more candidates like her: She will force Democratic candidates to be better. They will have to debate on policy rather than on the emotion stirred up on both sides by petty culture war tropes. Good candidates beget better candidates on both sides. Another reason I like her is because candidates like this tend to be far less divisive when they take office. Like nsplayr, I find it difficult to see myself voting for her in a general election. If she were to be elected though, I (and I think most on the left side of the spectrum) would have a much easier time generally supporting her than someone like Donald Trump. 

Fair points.  So what candidate represents your values?  What are your key values?

Edited June 5, 2023 by FourFans

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

Fair points.  So what candidate represents your values?  What are your key values?

Values? Hookers and blow brother. That’s why I’m hoping Hunter will be appointed as his dad’s successor by the Pentaverate when old Joe inevitably dies in a couple years. 🤣 🍻 

[FourFans]

8 hours ago, FourFans said:

I can say that someone is capable and qualified to do a job, particularly a political job, while also understanding that they don’t necessarily represent my values as well as another candidate might

 

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

Values? Hookers and blow brother. That’s why I’m hoping Hunter will be appointed as his dad’s successor by the Pentaverate when old Joe inevitably dies in a couple years. 🤣 🍻 

So, other people should be shut down for mis-understanding your values, but you won't share what those values are.  

You - "You don't understand me!" 

Them - *ok explain yourself* 

You - "You wouldn't understand!"   

Why should we ever take your opinion seriously?

Honestly dude.  Find your balls, decide what you believe, and take your stand.  If not, don't complain when you get choked out by rational arguments.

Curious question: do you train in any martial art or physical fitness event?  If so, do they endorse excuses as to why you lost or why you couldn't complete a movement/lift/event/pose?   Because that logic crosses over.

[Prozac]

13 minutes ago, FourFans said:

 

So, other people should be shut down for mis-understanding your values, but you won't share what those values are.  

You - "You don't understand me!" 

Them - *ok explain yourself* 

You - "You wouldn't understand!"   

Why should we ever take your opinion seriously?

Honestly dude.  Find your balls, decide what you believe, and take your stand.  If not, don't complain when you get choked out by rational arguments.

Curious question: do you train in any martial art or physical fitness event?  If so, do they endorse excuses as to why you lost or why you couldn't complete a movement/lift/event/pose?   Because that logic crosses over.

[Guest nsplayr]

10 hours ago, FourFans said:

Something about these two comments being right next to each other rings of cognitive dissonance.  She's a good pick, but she's conservative so it's a no?   That makes no sense.  You're saying that just because someone is conservative, even if they're the best a good person for the job, you wouldn't vote for them?

By implication you're saying that you would vote for a worse candidate who was more liberal just based on...what?  The excellent results that the liberal left has given us?

Based on what public policies they support.

Most of today’s GOP leaders would move forward enthusiastically with policies I think are wrong and bad. Most of todays Dems would also pursue new initiatives if elected, but for policies I think I are generally correct and good.

So even if I like Nikki Haley enough as a GOP candidate, especially compared to the actual leading contenders, that doesn’t mean I support her policy vision for the country.

Is this a weird or alien concept to some folks? 🤷‍♂️

I am a liberal democrat. I do in fact support liberal Democratic Party policies, like those of the current President. I think they are mostly correct and good and that the competing GOP policies are mostly wrong and bad.

I guess that’s like a 🤯 concept around here, but it’s part of why I keep posting on politics even though it’s 96.9% a waste of time. I would not support a Republican in a general election where a passable Democrat was also running. I don’t expect many of my friends on the right to vote any differently than me, just the opposite way consistent with their differing views & values. There are a fair amount of “independents” and learners who usually decide close elections, but I’m just not among them and that’s ok.

FWIW I did vote for a Republican for mayor of my town because she was the best candidate - the catch is there are relatively few Dems here and her opponent was an extremist, whereas to me she is a reasonable, pro-business country club Republican. So ok, I’ll take the best of two sub-optimal choices given the realities of where I live and my fellow voters here. By that same logic were I to vote in the IA or NH GOP presidential primary somehow, Haley would definitely get a look from me, even if I would not support her against Biden in the general were she to become the GOP nominee.

I do genuinely want good GOP candidates and leaders because in a two party system like ours, you ain’t gonna win ‘em all and I truly don’t believe rooting for the “worst” “most beatable” Republican is a strategy Dems should pursue (or vice versa).

[Guest nsplayr]

11 hours ago, FourFans said:

…but still stanchly say 'no' based on a political bias which is founded on a position or on assumptions that wouldn't hold water for 5 minutes when put to actual logical scrutiny.

It’s not flimsy “political bias” to have policy preferences my man.

If there was a hypothetical election where the GOP candidate was pro-choice, pro-clean energy, wanted to strengthen the social safety net and raise taxes on the wealthy, all why the Dem advocates for the opposite, I would happily vote for the Republican!

What I find more flimsy is to say, “Wow, he/she is a great speaker/debater/etc., I would vote for them!” without regard for what policies they support and the values that underlie those policies.

I will 100% vote for a boring, replacement-level Dem who aligns with my policy preferences vs a charismatic, inspiring, well-spoken Republican who wants to do the opposite of what I would do on every policy choice. You should vote that way too, consistent with whatever values you hold & policies you support!

Edited June 5, 2023 by nsplayr

[Guest nsplayr]

46 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Honestly dude.  Find your balls, decide what you believe, and take your stand.  If not, don't complain when you get choked out by rational arguments.

Curious question: do you train in any martial art or physical fitness event?  If so, do they endorse excuses as to why you lost or why you couldn't complete a movement/lift/event/pose?   Because that logic crosses over.

😂🤣 LMAO.

iF yOu DoN’t AnSwEr My iMpLiEd QuEsTiOns I wIlL bEaT yOu Up!!!1

Ok internet tough guy, good luck & TYFYS 🇺🇸

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

I am a liberal democrat. I do in fact support liberal Democratic Party policies, like those of the current President. I think they are mostly correct and good and that the competing GOP policies are mostly wrong and bad.

how do you support policies that are obviously destructive to cities, families, and individuals? serious question.

[Guest nsplayr]

6 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

how do you support policies that are obviously destructive to cities, families, and individuals? serious question.

Because I do not agree with your premise than Dem party policies are “obviously destructive” to cities, families and individuals. Come on man, what kind of question is that? “Tell me sir, when did you stop beating your wife?”

I live near a city, have a family, and am an individual, and we’re all doing pretty great! Hope you are as well.

Edited June 5, 2023 by nsplayr

[BashiChuni]

2 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Because I do not agree with your premise than Dem party policies are “obviously destructive” to cities, families and individuals. Come on man, what kind of question is that?

I live near a city, have a family, and am an individual, and we’re all doing pretty great! Hope you are as well.

proof is in the pudding. most major democratic cities are in serious decline. it's not an argument.

it's not about you either. it's about the policies overall harm to society. glad you're doing well but the majority of americans living under democratic policies are not.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BashiChuni

[Guest nsplayr]

Just now, BashiChuni said:

proof is in the pudding. most major democratic cities are in serious decline. it's not an argument.

It is! I disagree with you. Nashville has never been better or more prosperous. That’s where I live near and so I have the receipts more than elsewhere. Come here and see for yourself!

[BashiChuni]

tennessee is not a state run by democrats. nice try. i'd submit portland, san francisco, chicago, nyc, msp, LA, etc

keep living in ignorance my friend.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BashiChuni

[Guest nsplayr]

The city is run by Dems, like almost every urban area. You correctly identified that the state is Republican-led, congratulations.

Whats your argument here, that all those cities are shitholes? If so, I’d argue they’re not. If you wanna talk granular specifics I wanna talk Nashville since that’s what I know in a granular level of detail.

I am well aware of the broad-brush political leavings of every state and major city.

[HeloDude]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I am a liberal democrat. I do in fact support liberal Democratic Party policies, like those of the current President. I think they are mostly correct and good and that the competing GOP policies are mostly wrong and bad.

And yet voluntarily chooses to live in one of the “reddest” states in the country.  Wouldn’t you be happier in California or Oregon?  Honest question…God knows I would never consider moving to California.

[herkbum]

As a native Nashvillian, who loves the city, I am so happy I no longer live there. It is not the same city I grew up and lived in for so many years. It is overcrowded and no infrastructure to support the growth. We are in the same state but in a smaller city where I went to college and we love it. It still feels like it did in the early 90s when I was in school there.

There has also been so many non natives Nashvillians that have moved in that the city has lost it’s friendliness that I grew up loving. I remember driving or walking thru the city or downtown and everyone spoke to each other or waved when passing. There really aren’t very many Nashvillians downtown unless they are going to a Titans or Predators game. When we had the opportunity to move, we were happy to do so. When we come back to visit, the City definitely has a different feel to it. My old neighborhood has been invaded by non Tennesseans that were not trying to leave the policies that everyone is speaking about, but moved because of their job or wanting to live in a city/state without an income tax. It created disagreements and the HOA webpage became very entertaining. I miss many of the people I grew up and worked with, but the city has gotten too metropolitan for us. Last month when we were there for a birthday party, my wife looked at me and we both agreed we were happy that we had moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[TreeA10]

Nashville is not a urban cesspool with a large crime problem because the sanity of the surrounding Republican/conservative population won't let it.  Where leftists and liberal idiots have been allowed free rein in deep blue states, chaos and misery has embedded into the cities.  500,000 people have bailed out of California, IIRC. Google population decline in blue states for better numbers.  Claiming to be blind to facts or making false comparisons certainly won't improve the life of anyone too poor to run away from those bad policies.  But hey, keep voting for those policies, I'm sure something different will eventually result.

[FourFans]

@nsplayr

Hopefully by now you know that I appreciate your viewpoint and I enjoy sparring.

So, as you responded to statements I made and questions I addressed to prozac....

You've been kind enough and polite enough to explain what you believe.  I greatly appreciate that.  It takes courage to express an unpopular opinion so in a public forum.  Expression of deeply held beliefs is generally terrifying at a cognitive level.  Specifically because it is exclusive.  Embracing one set of beliefs excludes others and thereby puts a person in a specific and sometimes isolated class.  Thankfully, doing so also exposes truths that have convinced a person to change their way of living based on a line of reason (hopefully) and should therefore be shared with others.  If you have changed your way of living based on a line of reason, I am actively curious to hear the why behind it. 

You have shared the what you believe.  You and others have actively refused to share the 'why'. 

The state of our cities are a great example.  I've been to Portland, Dallas, Seattle, Anchorage, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Memphis, Miami, Honolulu, Chicago, Sydney, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Cologne, London, Tokyo, and Seoul multiple times in the past 24 months.  I walk around when I'm there.  A lot.  I can attest to the fact that major American cities have declined excessively in their safety, quality, and general habitability, especially when compared to their international cohort that is not experiencing the same woke agenda applications.  (Cologne would be the an exception as it is full woke, and rapidly becoming more dangerous and drug ridden).

Yet you declare you're willingness to ignore the decline of humanity's densest population centers based on your own personal observation of one city...that's not rational, reasonable, or intellectually honest.  I've spent very little time in Nashville, though my few experiences have been good.  I digress.

If someone disagrees with me based on their values, my default is to question my own opinion and figure out what I've got wrong.  I think that asking them what they value and why they value it is a rational and respectful thing to do.  I want to know the WHY behind what people believe.  When they actively refuse to respond, I'm going to call that out as cowardice...because that's what it is.  Not having the courage to demonstrate, explain, or stand up for what one claims to believe is a demonstration of exactly that: cowardice.  I've been addressed before here for using the word "coward" and I will continue to use it correctly in context.  To those who don't like it, I'm not going to apologize.

So in my view, @Prozac is displaying cowardice on an internet forum by refusing to answer questions concerning why he believes what he believes.  I'm calling that out.  Doing so doesn't make me mean or a bully.  It makes me honest.  The emotional responses to my questions is not my responsibility, they are the product of someone else's maturity.  If you disagree with that, please re-examine the definition of a bully.

Next, this gem:

 

iF yOu DoN’t AnSwEr My iMpLiEd QuEsTiOns I wIlL bEaT yOu Up!!!1

 

Stop being childish.  You should know by now that's not my style.  If I issue a threat it's direct and usually rash...and usually retracted.  Threats on the internet are stupid.  Most people I've encountered start tearing up the first time they feel how bad a punch hurts their own knuckles.  I know I did.  I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the guys here are doughy dudes who've never actually been in a real fight.  Hopefully your cute online insults serve you well in the real world.

I asked a legit question based on legit science.  If the body is in shit shape, the brain isn't going to work as it should.  I still haven't gotten an answer from prozac.

If you are unacquainted with the association of physical and mental health, you should be.  If not, don't feel bad.  It's a common problem in American society.  Oddly enough, a lot of the rest of the world clearly understands it and almost takes it for granted.  For example, the Japanese have culturally inculcated physical activity as a daily requirement for their salaryman class.  They've even got walking tracks on the roofs of their skyscraper office buildings.  Yet Americans think someone is being a meathead bully if they ask someone else if they exercise or physically train.  It's rather weak minded...which is rather appropriate, all things considered.

If you haven't noticed, I don't imply questions.  I ask them directly.  Sometimes I get drunk and ALL the filters get bypassed, but my core belief remain the same.  I have yet to have one person answer me directly as to why they believe that the current agenda is good for our country.  I've heard lots of what.  Very little Why.   

 

For clarity: My one and only core belief is that I am broken and need a savior, which was provided by God in Jesus.  He lived, died, and rose again specifically for the purpose of reconciling me to God.  Nothing that I did, nothing that I am.  Who he is, and what he's done saves me.  My relationship with Him is the ONLY thing in this life that's worth anything. I was built to relate to him.  I am highly imperfect. But it's worth the work to try and be better.  Politics, religion, money, relationships, family, morality...all of those things are subservient and I poorly understand them.  So when I ask pointed questions, it's because I want pointed answers.  Living a coherent and intellectually honest life in view of origin, destination, morality, and meaning is the best I can try for.  Which is why I ask direct questions.

 

So.

 

Soft on China.  Transitioning of children without parental approval.  Active celebration of non-straight sexuality.  Advocacy of teaching sexual agendas to kids in school.  Mandates of politicized public health agendas.  Legalization of drugs.  Incentivizing fathers to leave the home in low income families.  Celebration of biological men oppressing of biological women.  Not being able to clearly define what a woman is.  Suppression of freelance workers in the economy (go look up the Pro Act and the 70 MILLION freelance workers it would crush).  Egregious excessive spending the likes of which you would NEVER approve in your own person budget.  Suppression and elimination of the cleanest energy sources human kind has ever created.  Enforcement of a 'green' agenda that is not only disastrous for ecosystem, our economy, and our country's defense, but is literally physically impossible.   Should I keep going?  Claiming that our country's and community's stances on these issues to be sound is intellectually dishonest.  All those agenda items are not only endorsed, but ACTIVELY ENFORCED by our current American leadership. 

Yet you insist that voting for the current version of the democrat party that endorses ALL of the above is sound because they are the party that represents your values.  Values which you and your liberal peers refuse to explain.  I'm not asking you to change.  I'm asking you to explain why you believe what you believe.

All I asked prozac, and now I'll ask you again: Why do you believe what you believe. 

I used to vote democrat.  I'm an independent now.  I am a parent who has a world that I'm going to leave to my kids.  I know what it's like to have a world dumped on and passed on to me by my parent generation.  I'm not going to do that to my kids.  That means WE ALL need to work to preserve our community and get back to it's foundational principles.  If we've gone down the wrong path, progress has to look like backing up and returning to the right path.  It seems clear to me that our country is going down the wrong path.  We need to back some things up.  I guess that makes me conservative.

You know what's never happened?  A liberal supporter asking me what I believe, not to mention why I believe it.

TLDR: Please question your premises about being a "Democrat" or "Republican" because the Democrat or Republican party represents your values.  You might find that it actually doesn't.  I'm not asking you to vote for my guy.  I'm asking you to stop supporting causes that are bad for our community and our country.  If you can't see the bad impacts, please get out of the echo chamber and actually inspect our country.  Those bad causes have started to impact our personal lives, and more personally our kids.  That I'll defend.

Edited June 5, 2023 by FourFans