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Military pilots that aren't discrete about dropping mil leave need to grow up and be adults. But it comes down to educating civilian background pilots that are ignorant of the overall situation. Today... with the exception of some Guardsmen/Reservists... the vast majority of military pilots are unable to get started with an airline before the age of 33. Civilian pilots get hired up to 10 years younger than that. Those complaining civilian pilots... and by my observations, they are a very small group... need to stop and look at the top 5% of the seniority list at the major airlines. A disproportionately tiny percentage of those pilots are military background... e.g. nearly all of the most senior pilots are from civilian backgrounds. Are the military pilots being cheated? Uh, no. But the nature or the beast is such that seniority lists favor civilian backgrounds. When these complaining civilians were hired at age 23-31, many said they "hit the lottery" by getting hired at their dream airline. So I ask them, "Why do you care if a pilot goes on mil leave? Military pilots taking 5 years of leave doesn't negatively affect you." - If they're senior to you, it's one less person to bid against for trips and vacation for 5 years. - And if they are junior to you, what do you care? They're junior to you... so is there a problem?? My bud just got hired by UAL less than a year ago. He's 49. Last week, I was on the jumpseat of a 777 and the captain was 50. I looked him up and he was hired at age 23. When he retires, he will be the #3 pilot at United. Two guys nearly the same age. But how do you think their wages and QOL potential will compare to each other in the year 2025? Each path (civ and mil) to the airlines has its pros and cons. Once you're there, work hard to maximize your QOL based on your circumstances. The seniority list is set in stone. And USERRA is a law. So control what you can, and don't be the miserable SOB that no one likes to fly with because someone else "got a better deal".

If you login the portal and search “rated assignments”, there’s a UFT link on the left side of the rated assignments page. That’s where the info will be posted.

Here's the thing. If it was total bullshit, it would have warranted and received zero response. Absolutely zero response. The fact that it has received a major response, being addressed by the man himself, and also is now "under investigation" is all you need to know that the allegations are fully credible. And you know what? Someone acting with integrity in the face of other people acting with none is never a foul.

I separated in 2020...it was a great year to start a new AFRC job AND a new Airline job. I was set for a May date, but got a 3 month delay to Aug. It's possible, but definitely not enjoyable. I didn't get my approval for the delay until 3 days before my May separation date...no stress there, right? In your shoes, I'd set a separation date 12 months out and try to stick with it. Set your airline available date to that day. The MOMENT you get terminal leave approved (which should be 90 days prior to get orders in hand, not a commander's verbal), re-update your available date on all airline apps. The airlines understand that these mil dates can be fluid, so if you interview, get accepted, then have the date change because AFPC is...well...horrible at their job, you're probably ok for one 'I can start training on this date' change with the airline that hires you. The airlines appear to do class scheduling about 3-6 months in advance at the most. It feels like it's a lot less then that at some though. The ACMI I used to work for gave some guys who were waiting for a class date 3 days of notice to get to class. The only DO NOT is to say you are available when you know you're not, and then plan on getting grace from the airline. You say you're available, be available.

You will be able to get hired by a major with 700 PIC. Especially when you check the military container and IP. I would submit apps ASAP. They will call.

If you want to go to the airlines, your timing is excellent. There are instances of Majors recently hiring 25 year old pilots with no turbine time. The first-hand stories from my friends in the training center at multiple airlines are amazing. 2000 hours, I'm guessing all turbine? I think you'll be fine. Do you want to know what Henry is yelling here? He is saying "If you don't plan to stay for 20, GO NOW!!!"

Umm, there are many airlines that are hiring with 0 PIC. Especially if you check some minority boxes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Misunderstanding on my part it seems. Yes, certainly apply to more than just the Big 6 if you're willing to go there. Even if uncertain you want to work for a Regional, consider applying because you will likely get called ASAP, and the interview experience could be helpful. What got my attention was your statement that you would turn someone down while waiting for a better option. I don't believe you should do that. If a company offers you a job after your interview, continue down the path with them. You might get trained and fly for them for a few months... and then lo and behold, a better option is offered to you. Now you can make your decision. I know plenty of people recently that were given a job offer... accepted it... and before they even showed up for training, they got another job offer from a company higher on their list. Bottom line: many here will tell you not to turn down an offer. I believe that is good advice. Better to have a paycheck rolling in while you continue to strive for a better job with better wages and working conditions. Turning down choices # 5, and 6 and staying unemployed while you wait for choice #1 will not earn you the sympathy of your colleagues. Nor your wife.

He only sounds like a quack because the media makes him out to be one....and all the sheep jump on board and shame him and his thoughts

I once attended a pre deployment brief he put on for a squadron going out the door. Figured it was going to be the standard “go get ‘em, be safe, and the country thanks you for service” type deal. Boy was I wrong. Story was basically he swapped out another deployed SQ CC back in the early 2000s right before the holidays, GO1 was in effect. Line dogs asked him if he was going to fly in booze for Christmas like the previous CC did the year before. He said no, started a CDI, and got the previous CC who was his “buddy” a Art 15. (I think, I don’t 100% remember the punishment) He concludes the story with his buddy ended up getting out and has had a successful airline career after the incident. it was the strangest pre deployment pep talk I’ve ever heard, and told me everything I need to know about my employment choices when my time is up.

^^^ Option 3 - go to the airlines, then find a guard job to finish out the last couple years. Get the check of the month and be an airline pilot. Drop a trip a month since you have the check of the month and enjoy getting paid six figures (plus retirement) to "work" 10 days a month.

He had no choice. I wonder which IG is doing the investigation, the statement made it sound like he directed the IG investigation which keeps it internal to AFSOC and thus his control. Since the accusations surround a sitting three star this should go straight to the AF/IG. Finally, not sure I would classify him as a 40 pound brain. Smart?...At times. Socially awkward...ALWAYS. A political chub gobbler...usually. But definitely not the Smartest guy in the room.

They can’t train pilots fast enough because the current facilities, planes and instructors aren’t enough. They are doing the most they can with what they have. No shortage of people wanting to be pilots. All we can hope is that since the total number of slots were down last year that they will make up for it this year!

Did some googling, and it appears this STO trainee chick has been a golden child her whole career. It appears she was an elite college runner at USAFA who got out of her 2LT years by training for for the 2016 Olympics...but it doesn't look like she went. According to her USAFA running bio she wanted to be a pilot, but apparently didn't make that cut either. Not sure what AFSC she was in before trying for STO, but it feels like this all has nothing to do with capability, and has everything to do with creating the first black female STO, regardless of standards. Sounds like she wants the beret without the bruises. Welcome to a military created by diversity and inclusion. I'm sure Russia and China do this too.

The problem isn't the simple act of wearing a mask. The problem is the implicit messages, day-by-day being cemented in people's heads. Implicit message #1: Uncovered face = scary and unsafe. You (and everyone else) must wear a mask for "safety" or "health." Many, many people now instinctively think anyone with an uncovered face is: a) gross/disgusting b) germ-spreading, c) dangerous, d) all of the above. Implicit message #2: No mask = rude, selfish, uncaring, asshole, etc. You can make character and personality judgements based on mask status. (At least half the population, and virtually all businesses with mask requirements, are donning the bullshit rag for that reason alone, and you know it.) Overall implicit message: "Health" is mask wearing and getting shots, and other humans are dangerous. The true horror will present itself in 10-15 years, when this generation of kids (who are being conditioned to believe all of the above) become adults. My kids watch movies filmed before 2020 and anytime there's a crowd, they frantically ask "where are their masks?!?!" "Dad, how can they fly on an airliner without a mask???" It makes me want to vomit. We have lived life as normally as possible throughout this whole thing, .... sports, travel, seeing friends and family.... all unmasked to the absolute max extent. But the fact is, most of their time is spent in school, where the lunatic branch Covidians have them masked and distanced and afraid. And shamed because they're not vaccinated, or because they were seen unmasked at baseball practice (ohh, the horror). It's despicable. Imagine how f'd in the head they'd be if we were idiot Covidian parents at home as well. Well, that's reality for many kids - they're having this bullshit irrational fear pumped into their heads FULL time, at home and school. You are flat out crazy if you think the implicit messages I listed above won't cause irreparable damage over time.

I punched at the 10 year mark as a Flying TR with a palace chase commitment. After I had served my 18 month commitment I decided to stay mainly because I liked the people in the unit. I view staying in the reserve as another insurance policy. If you have a major economic downturn, furlough, medical disability; the security of the unit and the retirement pension is huge. If you have a major airline career with no bumps in the road, then gutting out 10 extra years in the reserves won’t be worth much more than the memories with the bros. The pension at 60 will be just some extra beer money compared to your 401K balance after a 30 year airline career.

FWIW captain from my list trip (regional) was interviewing with Delta. Had 50 turbine PIC. Non Military too. edit: actually got offered an interview when he had 0 PIC I can’t emphasize enough, what has already been said, if you meet the barebones mins to apply just send it. So many data points of people getting hired with way less experience than what used to be the standard. I mean it’s insanity.

Put your app in! These companies need talent, and your military training and experience is a well known commodity to the hiring teams. I’m in a similar boat to you (950 PIC/1700 total) and Delta extended the interview invite two weeks after I submitted my app. It’s a plus if you can check as many boxes possible (IP, EP, Safety, etc.), but just know that as long as you meet the minimums, these companies are seriously considering all qualified talent.

Ok, Huggy and Ryder seem to have more current intel. Disregard my 1000 PIC comment. Like I said, grain of salt. 😉

I think this is good advice, too. The standards are lowering by the day as they rush to fill the company with qualified bodies, and 700/2000 hours along with all the military jazz definitely puts you in the qualified bucket. Besides, as you alluded to before, a lot of airlines don't really give a shit about gobs of hours - they just want to know that you can fly and are good to get along with. 700 hours? 7000 hours? 17000 hours? They all know how to fly, and the airline knows it. Flew with an interview captain a few months ago (DAL). He said the discussions in the hiring rooms are seriously about how the airlineapps/pilotcredentials pool of qualified candidates is simply not big enough to accommodate hiring for the big 6 airlines for more than a year or two if the pool doesn't fill back up pretty quicly. This is why Delta is literally grabbing kids while they are still students at aviation schools like Auburn & MTSU and setting them on a path to employment that early. Bottom line - apply now, you NEVER KNOW what you will get, just like I find out almost every month bidding. I am usually pleasantly surprised. And this is also great advice 👇👇👇👇👇

Nope, the fault lies with me. My apologies for my brusk post. As others have done, feel free to pm me with specific questions about UAL. Happy to help out.

Cmon now! Lol

As guys are saying here: Blast to all. Take the first one you get, then get picky. As a mil guy, you need to do one important thing: FLUSH the concept loyalty-based transactional employment. The military actually drills this into us, and we don't realize it. Yes, be loyal to your union and company, but in the end, it's all about the Benjamins. They'd furlough you, so don't feel bad about "wasting a training seat" or some such. Be civil about it if you need to drop out of a class, but don't sweat it either. Speaking to cargo. Yes, it's AWESOME. You'll fly nights, but it's not really that bad, and the pay is worth the disrupted sleep cycle. (by contrast many of those pax pilots are striving to get on a widebody...where you fly lots of overseas nights) Not dealing with pax is completely worth it. Don't buy the hype that cargo is a difficult one to land. If you're specifically looking at UPS or FedEx, yes the process isn't as simple as the pax carriers...but it's not rocket surgery and it's completely worth it. No one knows how UPS hires. Fill out the app and keep updating, it's an exercise in patience. FedEx still has the kick-in-the-shins 2-day interview process from hell. Oh yeah, and update that app every 2 weeks and start as far out (over a year is good) as you can. Both are excellent companies with outstanding pilot groups where you'll want to spend your career. It's the best part-time job in the world. Last bit: Don't be afraid to spend time at a last choice airline. I separated at 17 years while 3 years non-current, joined the reserves and a not-first-choice airline where I worked for a year. It got me a type rating that probably led to getting hired by my top choice. Experience is experience and it helps you get hired. That's happening a lot these days. I'm in training now at my second 121 carrier. We had several people no-show the training, and one guy quit training halfway through to go to another carrier...this is at a top-end company mind you. I saw that happen in both of the 121 training pipelines. It happens all the time. I've personally hear of guys no-showing to training (by taking a different job) at Delta, United, America, UPS, and FedEx. PM me if you want more specifics. I spent the last four years giving this whole process a very hard stare, so it's fresh.

Not true! It has NOTHING to do with "lowering standards". Just ask "management".

Absolutely put apps in anywhere you would want to work. I know guys that only applied at their dream airline and started within a month or two of the availability date. I also know guys that only applied to their dream airline only to get the "try again in a year". It takes time to build the apps, get references, for the airline to score the app, and then get the invite. Only applying at a single place is a great way to not get hired for a year after your availability date.

Blast apps everywhere. Take the first job, then get picky.

No worries man. Also, I personally know someone who has worked directly with these squadrons and according to his sources, there’s validity to the claims in the anonymous email.

My “change my mind” was made in jest or sarcasm. Notice nothing from anyone in support.

You shouldn't be crucified, but how do you know there isn't more proof? In my very limited experience with AFSOC there is usually at least some truth in frustrated letters like this. I would be willing to bet email or other evidence was provided that is still being held back. The response form the AFSOC/CC is VERY telling...yeah we get it, there is context, but there is no denial of the facts. Again, no denial of the facts. Sadly, this narrative jives with a lot of other things leaking out of AFSOC/HQ. Why did so many senior AFSOC officers leave rather than serve under him? Why did both folks slated to fleet up to WING/CC punch at the same rather than serve under this guy? Why is he pushing the most caustic human ever to wear the uniform to replace him? Did he really classify the entire gunship community as killers without conscious who enjoy killing...and thus they need down time to reflect on themselves? I, like you, know and respect some of the people named. However, if any of the alleged facts related to them is true...there is some serious splainin to do. Seriously, if she was truly offered a Tier 1 position if she would stay, does that pass any sniff test other than a woke agenda? I am sick to my stomach hoping that part is wrong.

"It's factually incorrect"... "It's all rumor"..."It lacked context" ... "Singling out a fellow service member for public abuse is bullying and harassment" Deny, deny, deny, counter accuse. Classic and predictable response. I'm sure much of it is rumor. However, if even 10% of that letter is true, the entire chain of command needs to be fired. I'm not sure which is worse, the likelihood that it happened or the fact that I'm not even remotely surprised. Kinda funny how differently whistleblowers are treated depending on if their report upsets the social agenda. Had it been the other way around, that the SOF community was preventing a qualified female, some of those generals would have already been fired. Finally, if the dude that wrote that letter somehow reads this board: 1. Good on ya for publishing this. 2. Change your writing style if you ever need to submit anything in writing to the AF or even emails. I guarantee they're hunting you.

That guy sounds like, suppose the Wright Bros told everyone to never fly on an airplane. I understand he came up with the idea, but it took a huge number of people to develop the idea into a product. Now he just sounds like a qwack.

The dude that helped invented MRNA Vaccine technology or at least had a lot to do with it), explains the lunacy of what has happened. Big Tech is the devil and there is some serious bullshit taking place with our "masters". https://rumble.com/vrtdku-joe-rogan-jre-1757-robert-malone-covid.html?fbclid=IwAR1uDDwIB0fxwOTjmTDmevf2vYWK2r9KXaChtkQaclnK9JLl26z1g8CpcpA

Yeah, hand flying full procedure raw navaid approaches in the weather, to mins, then doing the missed approach is perhaps one of the most dynamic hands-and-feet exercises you can do while simultaneously receiving instant and precise feedback from the same navaids. If someone can't see how the ability translates directly to nearly every other aviation activity, maybe they were never that good at it. But it still translates, and at a very low price compared to the alternatives.

Had a bro several years ago get in some slight trouble due to some hijinks. Whenever a spare flight cap was found around the squadron, it was quickly turned into a canvas panel, and a dick was drawn in the cap in permanent marker. All fun and good until it occurred to the WG/CC, who was unaware and took his flight cap to an O-6 meeting in D.C., and then subsequently forgot said cap at the table, only for the SARC representative(no shit) to pick it up, look inside trying to find a name, and was struck by the sheer power of the dick drawing. Maybe some slight verbal counseling occurred, but the best part was that same guy ended up going and getting a rooster stamp and stamp pad, and that became the new marker for abandoned flight caps.

Maybe? Anecdotal of course, but in my herk experience, I’ve seen probably too many C-130 dudes screw up a VOR-A on local training rides. My scariest moments in the MAF were never on the employment end of stick either…but always in admin phases of flight. Particularly departures, recoveries, and approaches with poor airmanship on display in the formation. It’s tempting to focus on employment, sure. But successful employment requires some building blocks that you just have to get from reps attempting to fly that perfect VOR-A in UPT. Your final point is dead on. Set the bar high in UPT, keep the bar high in the ops world. Students will meet it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't mean to derail this thread but this topic is something that interests and affects me. While I haven't seen a decrease in the quality of the UPT product, our community has gotten much, much younger in all positions, to include IPs (instructors in all crew positions really). In some ways this is a positive, since previously the time to upgrade to IP in AFSOC was sometimes excessive/out of whack with other communities. And honestly there's some high speed dudes that have both benefited from it and had good return on investment to the guys on the line. In other ways I think it's been a negative. In the last 3 years I've heard more incorrect/poorly considered techniques and sometimes downright wrong concepts/tactics than in my previous 15 years. I also think that the ops tempo, as you discussed, has led to a serious reduction in the amount of time IPs have to spend with new copilots. Finally, I think the airline hiring spree is about to crush the MC community. The AF got a reprieve for 18 months in the form of COVID, but now I'm seeing a large chunk of the O-4 IP/EP 2-3,000 hour guys either punching or on the verge of doing so. I've read/been presented the Shaw Class A. It was a tough read, especially as a senior IP. I wholeheartedly agree with your point about FTU instruction versus line instruction; the two just aren't the same. It's not cosmic, but how a line IP approaches student training versus an FTU IP is just a different mentality (and sometime skill set) that I didn't fully appreciate until I was an FTU IP. I'm absolutely not against improving/modernizing our UPT syllabus, but I'm of the personal opinion that actual hours in the airplane CANNOT be replicated, regardless of the level of technology present in whatever training device is being used. Back on topic, think the AF will bump the bonus back up to $35K this year?

...you might be surprised what really happens these days...

It's not lack of awareness, it's straight up (however sclerotic) game theory application. They have a reductionist view of airline hiring cycles since oh say, the end of the vietnam war (and definitively post deregulation). They will always short-call airline hiring predictions. That's why things like the FY21 AvB offerings are allowed to manifest in spite of real world a-word hiring intel they are privy to, especially in the age of the internet. I forget I'm one of the old crusty guys on here now, so I catch myself repeating the spiel, but I'll do it anyways: They'll always play run-the-clock offense, even when they're behind. It's not a bug to them, it's a feature. This is because even though in a game with no ADSC such decisions would get them sacked out of office, that's not the game we're playing here. You AD critters should know that better than anyone. At the pilot occupational level, they staff and manage this place like a regional airline. So, treat your ADSC contract like you work for the best paid regional airline, and a lot of this lamenting is self-limiting. If you pursue an extension of your one-sided contract, do so with eyes wide open. And to be clear, there are reasons why it's ok to be a "regional lifer" (ask me how I know). No right or wrong answer, only the right or wrong answer for each individual and /or dependent family. Happy New Year.

For that dementia patient, it probably still feels like the first week a la "Fifty First Dates." But at least there are no mean tweets. Of course, he couldn't figure it out to send one, but still...

For what its worth Negatory, I don't think you're stupid. You're one of the few members on this forum that is capable of examining another side and making an honest admission when you see things differently. I've seen that in the COVID thread. Rather, this is really solid evidence of how strong our echo chambers can be. And while you read an article that convinced you it was a Republican echo chamber propogating a myth, you quickly realized you were actually the one that was unaware of what the narrative was. No big deal, you fessed up to it and we move on. Both sides are guilty of it. You win points because you did 2 things. 1.) You heard something you thoght was wrong so you looked it up. Unfortunately what you looked up was wrong but you still tried due dilligence to get the story straight. 2.) When you recognized its wrong you owned it. In my book that earns you big points and you are the type of dude I would love the share beers with and discuss controversial opinions we don't agree one.

I hadn’t seen or followed the Pelosi thing. Although it was in January before we were in pandemic mode, I’ll say I stand corrected. I just never felt like people were mad about travel bans once we agreed Covid was a thing. Whoa buddy, calm your tits. But overreaction is a specialty on this forum.

This thread is emblematic of there literally being two completely different understandings of reality out there in contemporary American society.

Retention will tank further; every passing day proves it…I agree. I disagree about the 30%, they were at worst willing to stay. I also disagree it takes any of those thing listed to make it to 20 years. That said, we’re in a bad way. Centralized Command, Decentralized Control, and the lower echelons of Command AND the highest levels of Control are both incentivized to just say yes, beyond reason. It’s clear to those who can see it, at the highest and lowest levels. It’s a great job (calling even) this AF pilot gig…it’s a horrible place to spend a career. Don’t ever think it’s the same for 20 years…be a pilot, serve your country, then choose for yourself if this is what you want. Most of us stay because we think others need help/protection. If no one cared about people, the take rate would round down to zero. IMO. Don’t take the bonus unless you love/will love what you’re doing…to each their own. ~Bendy Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app

Strawman. And there's a certain irony because your stance is all-or-nothing. If it helps at all, we do it, right? That's pretty inflexible. In reality, how much does it help, and what is the required threshold for mandating something? What are the metrics for taking away individual decision making, and what are the metrics for returning it? A lot of this is just ignorance. Most people are never involved in a process that determines the value of a life, or multiple lives. Funnily enough the military does it all the time with collateral damage. And insurance companies have life valued down to the dollar. But every time you get in a car you put other lives at risk. Is it the same risk level as COVID? No. But where's the line between driving and COVID? Isn't it strange that we don't know it, after two years? Who gets to decide? And if it's not up to the individual, does the individual at least have a right to view the process, the metrics, and the data? Most also don't realize how many people die every day. So you get absurd metrics like "1% of everyone over 65 has died of COVID-19." Yup. But over 4% of everyone over 65 dies each year. So what's the point? How many developmentally disabled kids who are *barely* able to comprehend human interactions will be irreparably stunted by the masking and isolation? 1? 100? 1000? How many old lives is that worth? How many fat lives? How many cancer survivors? If parents don't get to make that decision, what are the metrics being used by those who do? What are the government's estimates for childhood developmental damage, and what is their limit for saving the elderly? In the next pandemic, when we have an actually-scary disease, was it worth creating the division and distrust in expertise that we've created with this pandemic? How is it that two years in, the government is only now distinguishing between "died of COVID-19" and "died with COVID?" Do you really think they forgot? No one at the CDC thought that would be relevant until now? There's so much more to this than just "masks do something." You keep throwing the idea of tyranny back at conservatives as though they are making an argument for some sort of Machiavellian takeover of American society. Tyranny most often comes from the idiots and fools, so wildly underqualified for their positions, and deeply aware of it, that they will say or do anything to distract from their nearly-perfect track record of failure. Data and thresholds are the enemy, because they tie a politician to something that can be measured, scored, and held against them at the next election. I'm not concerned about Barack Obama secretly running the Democratic Illuminati from his basement. I'm worried about well-meaning Americans taking the fear mongering and scare tactics of politicians at face value, and sacrificing their Liberty and free will for a threat that is being almost entirely exaggerated and fabricated by politicians. I think I'm wrong? How is it that some of the loudest politicians on the left have been caught violating every safety measure they espouse? Newsome at the French laundry, AOC in Miami. The mayor of Austin going to a wedding. Pelosi going to the hair salon. These are not the actions of people who believe what they are saying. It would be one thing, and still bad, for us to give up our freedom based on the whims of politicians who do not have the data or the thresholds to present us with, but at least believe in their hysteria enough to submit to their own edicts. But we don't. Who are you going to believe? Them, or your own two eyes?

Not to inflame the mental break you experienced there, but the irony of decrying "liberal mask pussies" while simultaneously condemning a piece of cloth for destroying your entire life is rich.

No.. but based on all available stats there'd be fewer hospitalizations and deaths. And most likely a reduction in cases resulting in better hospital staffing, fewer airline cancellations etc.. Break/break Man, didn't expect that mask comment to set you guys off so severely. It's really all or nothing with some of you. What I've learned so far: -Precautions are horseshit and not worth doing unless they're 100% effective -Any amount of adherence to public health guidance sets you on an apocalyptic dystopian slippery slope a la 28 days later -Pieces of cloth on our faces are the pre-eminent threat to both our freedom and mental health. -Once they seize control they'll never give it back (except for that time the CDC lifted mask guidance based on data at the time)