Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Bigred]

18 hours ago, Dapper Dan Man said:

 

I think we need to challenge the “AF can’t afford those dollar figures” rhetoric way more than we do. So many times we hear this from flag officers, leaders, or policy makers and take it at face value without really putting that reasoning to the test.

The AF could afford those dollar figures if they could successfully advocate with lawmakers to reallocate resources they already have on the books. The AF can afford plenty, but the problem is what they’re allowed to spend it on. Physicians receive bonuses in amounts that might actually get a pilot to stay, yet where is the advocacy for that? Is there a doctor shortage in the Air Force that we’re just not talking about?

Or, the AF could produce less pilots and put that savings into retaining their experienced ones. Even if the cost of putting one person through UPT and FTU averaged only $2M, the AF could instead put that towards retention and pay 20 pilots $100,000 right now to stay. This isn’t earth shattering stuff…anyone who’s taken an HR class can tell you that hiring, onboarding, and training are some of the most expensive parts of running your company.

The AF is on record saying that they’d rather produce talent than retain talent, even though that’s the more fiscally irresponsible option. I think if we challenged this line of thinking and brought attention to it with lawmakers, they’d be more open to revising the NDAA and compelling the AF to come up with resource allocation options (and therefore bonus options) that would actually entice people to stay.

Write your congressmen.


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To be fair, the AF can’t give anything higher than 50k, that’s limited by law and requires some waivers from a few undersecretary’s that deal with finance/personnel.

All that said, from what I understand, there’s nothing that limits the Air Force from offering something like a three year, 50k per year contract. I’d be willing to bet the take rate would actually be higher if there was a 3 year option. 

[HossHarris]

8 hours ago, General Chang said:

Risk to fill squadrons with nothing but Lieutenants and Captains is acceptable.  Enough FGOs will stick around to adequately fill the commander positions.  The research is conclusive.  People on this forum don’t want to hear that, but not wanting to hear something doesn’t mean it’s not true.  The Pentagon is 100% focused on production ramp to 1500.

I know what stupid coa management chose. 
 

you missed/dodged the question…

How’s that workin out for y’all?

[StoleIt]

9 hours ago, General Chang said:

Risk to fill squadrons with nothing but Lieutenants and Captains is acceptable.  Enough FGOs will stick around to adequately fill the commander positions.  The research is conclusive.  People on this forum don’t want to hear that, but not wanting to hear something doesn’t mean it’s not true.  The Pentagon is 100% focused on production ramp to 1500.

I know this is a troll account, but the lack of pilot-centric FGOs does have second and third order effects that ripple throughout the enterprise.

In my little corner of the Air Force, we claim to hire the "best" and "most experienced" pilots because, after all, we are "AMCs only Selectively Manned Unit." In the last 2ish years, that I've paid attention to, our hiring boards went from 1-2 O-3's now to the inverse. This next hiring board has 1 O-5, 4 O-4s, and about 20 O-3s. The dynamic has changed, the experience level has drastically changed, but we claim "perfection is our standard" has not changed (oh yea, they dropped the hours requirement significantly to apply).

So, we will continue to get our nuts crushed by WHMO (waves at Rainman) by an institutional issue because nobody wants to call a spade, a spade.

Big Air Force might not value retention of skilled aviators but, I am going to laugh when it bites them because it starts causing major inconveniences to our Top 5 customers. My only regret is the people who set up the house of cards will never see justice for their mismanagement...and some poor CGO is going to buy a Q3'd for something silly that delayed a mission and they were never taught.

[Swizzle]

1 hour ago, HossHarris said:

I know what stupid coa management chose. 
 

you missed/dodged the question…

How’s that workin out for y’all?

Take rate is up!!

...when you decrease the denominator, and rig the math.

AFPC should put a metric of take rate percent vs IDE in-res select/attendee. That would reveal the take-to-stay/play rate of rewarding the yes-people under their control, the 'on-ramp' people.

To be fair, no gripe is holistic without an accompanying proposed fix, so, reward free, independent thinkers who have the courage to speak up and act. Senior leaders should listen instead of shoving everyone into your box-construct of self-licking ice creams (Aka adapt and the system adapt like AF teaches and preaches). Build new carton constructs, like see-through milk containers so everyone avoids any sour, curdled milk! What AF does not realize is people see the covered, non-descript AF container is fermented and about to explode.

[mcbush]

41 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

Take rate is up!!

...when you decrease the denominator, and rig the math.

AFPC should put a metric of take rate percent vs IDE in-res select/attendee. That would reveal the take-to-stay/play rate of rewarding the yes-people under their control, the 'on-ramp' people.

But that would require intellectual honesty and a desire to solve the problem, neither of which are present here.

 

23 hours ago, Dapper Dan Man said:

The AF is on record saying that they’d rather produce talent than retain talent, even though that’s the more fiscally irresponsible option. I think if we challenged this line of thinking and brought attention to it with lawmakers, they’d be more open to revising the NDAA and compelling the AF to come up with resource allocation options (and therefore bonus options) that would actually entice people to stay.

Write your congressmen.

 

Congress is no better than HAF DAF. You want to see the response I got last time I wrote my Congressman?

 

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, mcbush said:

But that would require intellectual honesty and a desire to solve the problem, neither of which are present here.

 

Congress is no better than HAF DAF. You want to see the response I got last time I wrote my Congressman?

 

That is like a ChatGPT output, 1st run..

[Danger41]

That sucks about your Congressman @mcbush. The only time I ever reached out to mine (Sen Mike Rounds from South Dakota), I went to his website, followed the contact procedure, and had a staffer reach out to me by the end of the day. Problem was solved in 3 days. I was actually shocked at how well it went.

[guineapigfury]

15 hours ago, Danger41 said:

That sucks about your Congressman @mcbush. The only time I ever reached out to mine (Sen Mike Rounds from South Dakota), I went to his website, followed the contact procedure, and had a staffer reach out to me by the end of the day. Problem was solved in 3 days. I was actually shocked at how well it went.

In 2016 I reached out to Kristi Noem's office for help with a recalcitrant office not processing my separation in a timely fashion and got a complete resolution within 18 hours.  It sounds like South Dakotans are electing people who aren't messing around.

[General Chang]

You people should really do some historical research on this topic, just on this site.  Same boring griping for a couple of generations now.  The creative solution is to produce more pilots.  Congress will not help with retention bonuses, so the AF has given up.  The ramp to 1500 pilots per year IS the target.  Younger squadrons IS the acceptable risk.  Keep calling me a troll, but this is the model going forward.  Embrace it and start working with those young pilots to get them up-to-speed faster.  Do something productive in your unit instead of complaining on a website.  The lack of “Service Berfore Self” on this website still floors me.  If I ever find one of you in real life under one of my commands…

[nunya]

48 minutes ago, General Chang said:

If I ever find one of you in real life under one of my commands…

You’ll what? Make us want to retire? Palace Chase? Just plain separate? Good deal.

[Air_Space]

Without going into specifics how does HAF assume this is going to happen? Assuming Chang isn't a troll, there is just no way I can see this happening even if we go to T1 only sim track tomorrow. There's still the bottleneck of T-6s

1) Maintenance isn't going to be able to keep up especially on the 38 side

2) You don't have the instructors 

3) High risk, if we go to flying 6-7 days a week with trip turns. That's how people put jets in the dirt (which we don't have enough of already). Or has HAF just said screw it, we accept the losses?

4) High ops tempo in UPT makes your instructor problem worse as now their living in s%*t towns and never see their family either in the process 

[pawnman]

15 minutes ago, Air_Space said:

Without going into specifics how does HAF assume this is going to happen? Assuming Chang isn't a troll, there is just no way I can see this happening even if we go to T1 only sim track tomorrow. There's still the bottleneck of T-6s

1) Maintenance isn't going to be able to keep up especially on the 38 side

2) You don't have the instructors 

3) High risk, if we go to flying 6-7 days a week with trip turns. That's how people put jets in the dirt (which we don't have enough of already). Or has HAF just said screw it, we accept the losses?

4) High ops tempo in UPT makes your instructor problem worse as now their living in s%*t towns and never see their family either in the process 

5. Lower the bar. 5 sorries in the T-6, do all instruments in the simulator. VR instead of flight time for low-level navigation. Kick formation to the FTUs.

Not a smart idea, but one I can see the Air Force leaning towards. We're already reducing flying hours and training events.

[CaptainMorgan]

5. Lower the bar. 5 sorries in the T-6, do all instruments in the simulator. VR instead of flight time for low-level navigation. Kick formation to the FTUs.
Not a smart idea, but one I can see the Air Force leaning towards. We're already reducing flying hours and training events.

They’re about to start T-6 straight to FTU trial groups.


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[brabus]

They’ve already done that. The bobs have been scrambling for years, grasping at any and all straws. They have no viable solution…other than retain enough dudes while producing approx 1000/yr. Congress and the DOD are unwilling to put real effort into retaining, so they just struggle like a fat kid at weight-loss camp to produce more (but less capable/greater limfacs early on).

[CaptainMorgan]

They’ve already done that. The bobs have been scrambling for years, grasping at any and all straws. They have no viable solution…other than retain enough dudes while producing approx 1000/yr. Congress and the DOD are unwilling to put real effort into retaining, so they just struggle like a fat kid at weight-loss camp to produce more (but less capable/greater limfacs early on).

They did it before with UPT Next at Austin. This will be 2.5 studs going straight to heavy FTUs in lieu of track select. Next was handpicked studs with experienced IPs.


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[raimius]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:26 AM, Air_Space said:

High ops tempo in UPT makes your instructor problem worse as now their living in s%*t towns and never see their family either in the process 

Already in progress.  (Could get worse, but then you are looking at 6-12mo before burning out the entire IP corps.). The former AFSOC min-turn deployment types are already complaining about the ops tempo...

[Ant-man]

Why bother retaining people when you can make them evaluators in their MWS with less than 72 gate months? I've seen it, and most people didn't understand why I thought that was insane. With the exception of the commanders and DOs, guys actually doing the flying in my corner of the AF are well within their ADSC, and the only ones past 10 years are lifers mostly relegated to staff. 

[jice]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:52 PM, raimius said:

Already in progress.  (Could get worse, but then you are looking at 6-12mo before burning out the entire IP corps.). The former AFSOC min-turn deployment types are already complaining about the ops tempo...

Could you elaborate? What’s ‘high ops tempo’ mean for AETC life?

[Standby]

1 hour ago, jice said:

Could you elaborate? What’s ‘high ops tempo’ mean for AETC life?

Triple turning 3 days a week, then rolling right into a student XC, only to come back on Monday to the same grind. If you’re a flight commander, tack on the endless amounts of counseling right after formal report. Gets old. 

[raimius]

2 hours ago, jice said:

Could you elaborate? What’s ‘high ops tempo’ mean for AETC life?

Double turn 5 days a week (maybe with another sim/rsu thrown in there) plus the occasional xc on the weekend, also whatever office job you have.

[Danger41]

I know a guy in this class and he told me that they are planning the following:

2 x C-130J

2 x KC-135

2 x U-28

2 x C-146

They also are supposedly wanting to grab from the middle third and then the next tranche of this would be from the bottom third to not skew results.  

[FourFans]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:32 AM, General Chang said:

If I ever find one of you in real life under one of my commands…

Please tell me this is you Chang...yeah, the guy who said stop hiring white men because you all think alike.

[brabus]

Who’s that jackass? Weird, seen tons of disagreements between white men, because they in fact do not think alike.

[SocialD]

11 minutes ago, brabus said:

Who’s that jackass? Weird, seen tons of disagreements between white men, because they in fact do not think alike.

 

 

I disagree!

[General Chang]

On 9/6/2023 at 3:34 AM, FourFans said:

Please tell me this is you Chang...yeah, the guy who said stop hiring white men because you all think alike.

Now we start with racist comments.  Lovely.  Diversity is the way of the future, you pansy.  You people need to get on-board with the new Air Force, or get flippin’ lost now.