Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[DirkDiggler]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:43 PM, Homestar said:

I feel you there. Though I didn't have a lifetime dream of flying in the Air Force growing up.

There is more to flying in the Air Force than a paycheck. I enjoy my job. I like my coworkers. Job satisfaction is high for me right now. I'm also at the end of my career and am transitioning to the civilian sector where my flying training will be properly valued (at least by second year pay--I don't believe that the airlines pay well out of the goodness of their heart). I'm proud of what I've done in the Air Force, I'm grateful for the places I've been, the people I've met, and the missions I've flown.

So many people in life are just angry. Angry at "the Air Force", angry at "the libs", angry at whatever. I also understand that many have had negative experiences in the Air Force. I have too. I was non-vol'd to Afghanistan for 364.5 days during a time where Greens were killing Blues. But I also had doors open from that experience that served me well later in my career.

I wish I made $300/hr plus profit sharing in the Air Force. I'd stay longer. But the money has been good enough and now I'm moving on. And a great big "thank you" for those who leave after their UPT commitment is up too! You served. Most Americans can't say the same. Go make that bank. Buy that boat, plane, or second wife. Enjoy life. Be happy.

Staying in the Air Force isn't for everyone. But it is for some.

Great post and very well said.

[bad_timing]

Draft says: "    (b) Rated Officers Described.--Rated officers... (2) who have not more than three years and not less than one year remaining on an active duty service obligation under section 653 of title 10, United States Code."

But 37 U.S. Code § 334 says eligibility is based on if the officer: "has completed any active duty service commitment incurred for undergraduate aviator training or is within one year of completing such commitment;"

 

I wonder if eligibility is expanding in order to lock people in earlier? And with the 1-year verbiage differing between the two, I wonder what this all means for FY23 eligibles that would be at <1 year left on the ADSC if this takes effect for the AvB program early next year.

[StoleIt]

44 minutes ago, bad_timing said:

Draft says: "    (b) Rated Officers Described.--Rated officers... (2) who have not more than three years and not less than one year remaining on an active duty service obligation under section 653 of title 10, United States Code."

So if you're inside of one year remaining you are ineligible for the bonus? Am I comprehending that right?

[viperdriver1313]

So my UPT ADSC expires in aug 2023, I couldn’t sign the bonus last year because I wasn’t eligible yet; and now this wording seems like I won’t be eligible because I will have <1 year. WTF…

[bad_timing]

22 minutes ago, viperdriver1313 said:

So my UPT ADSC expires in aug 2023, I couldn’t sign the bonus last year because I wasn’t eligible yet; and now this wording seems like I won’t be eligible because I will have <1 year. WTF…

I'm in the same boat. Maybe the $35k cap would apply to guys like us under 37 U.S. Code § 334, and there will be a separate pool of eligibles for the "demonstration program" that goes up to $50k? Who knows.

[viperdriver1313]

I was excited to see the Air Force offer a good deal.. 

Looks like my salt level will remain in the hypernatremia regime. 
 

[SocialD]

41 minutes ago, bad_timing said:

I'm in the same boat. Maybe the $35k cap would apply to guys like us under 37 U.S. Code § 334, and there will be a separate pool of eligibles for the "demonstration program" that goes up to $50k? Who knows.

 

 

Username checks!

[StoleIt]

5 hours ago, viperdriver1313 said:

So my UPT ADSC expires in aug 2023, I couldn’t sign the bonus last year because I wasn’t eligible yet; and now this wording seems like I won’t be eligible because I will have <1 year. WTF…

5 hours ago, bad_timing said:

I'm in the same boat. Maybe the $35k cap would apply to guys like us under 37 U.S. Code § 334, and there will be a separate pool of eligibles for the "demonstration program" that goes up to $50k? Who knows.

If you two were looking for a sign for whether or not to stay in or go airlines...just saying...

[DuckHunter]

[pawnman]

33 minutes ago, DuckHunter said:

So we continue to study the problem. 

I feel like I've been hearing the "study" line for my entire career. 

[tac airlifter]

17 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So we continue to study the problem. 

I feel like I've been hearing the "study" line for my entire career. 

100% agree.  Now that I’m at the end of my career, I finally see this for what it is: tactics of a failing bureaucracy.  Stall, delay decision until survey results, lose survey results, further study the problem, convene a committee and of course it takes time to select committee members, etc.  In fact, proficiency at these tactics is a chief indicator of which senior officer is ready for another star; battlefield results are irrelevant and accountability for failure in combat is zero.

If I could identify one single characteristic which is the thread tying together multiple failings of our military, small senseless policies to massive strategic failure, it would be this: combat success does not equal career success and career success can be had without combat success.  If we promoted people who valued combat success above all else, everything would resolve logically including the aviation bonus.

[Swizzle]

1 hour ago, DuckHunter said:

Red teaming this: So they’ll run out of $, maybe, thus BoP will go only to those hard to fill locations (i.e. Del. Can.-Kun. Etc.)…

 

[Majestik Møøse]

Increasing the bonus by $50,000 per year would cost a few hundred million, or 0.1% of the Air Force budget. That’s money that would directly decrease LM and NG income, while starving the airlines of their free pilot training program. In turn, you get happier pilots that’ll be more experienced to fight a war you never actually plan to get into.

[brabus]

208 pages in - the answer is still “don’t do it!” and go enjoy a far better life in the ANG, airlines, insert-other-passion job, etc. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by brabus

[SocialD]

12 minutes ago, brabus said:

208 pages in - the answer is still “don’t do it!” and go enjoy a far better life in the ANG, airlines, insert-other-passion job, etc. 

 

This...part time is the way!  

[Danger41]

I only somewhat snarkily ask this, but what is the ACTF doing daily? The word of this has been out for months. Why would they wait until now to "study" it. This is a massive (and IMO, the best) retention tool available and they should have already worked this math problem out.

I don't know if anyone senior is actually looking at this site, but from one of the few AD guys from my YG, let me speak on behalf of the bros. I've had several (10+) folks that have become eligible for the bonus that have asked me for info on this. They are all intrigued and would likely sign on for the higher amount. A very common refrain is that they aren't too jazzed about going to the airlines, want to continue flying for the AD, but it doesn't make sense financially. I know that's an atom splitting revelation to say, but that's the ground truth. Pay these people and they will stay AD. I don't know why that's such a tough concept. 

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Increasing the bonus by $50,000 per year would cost a few hundred million, or 0.1% of the Air Force budget. That’s money that would directly decrease LM and NG income, while starving the airlines of their free pilot training program. In turn, you get happier pilots that’ll be more experienced to fight a war you never actually plan to get into.

Remember this program is only $15k/yr increase over AVB (50k vs 35k)…they're not additive programs…

Edited October 4, 2022 by Swizzle
Another interpretation of your writing: yes a true $50k ADDITION to AVB would “do-it”

[BashiChuni]

anyone trusting the federal government to do the "right" thing does so at their peril.

i'd bypass ANY type of bonus thrown at pilots and jump ship. much more money to be made on the outside

[Swizzle]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:28 AM, brabus said:

208 pages in - the answer is still “don’t do it!” and go enjoy a far better life in the ANG, airlines, insert-other-passion job, etc. 

 

On 10/4/2022 at 2:46 PM, BashiChuni said:

anyone trusting the federal government to do the "right" thing does so at their peril.

i'd bypass ANY type of bonus thrown at pilots and jump ship. much more money to be made on the outside

Found this gem of a website..our very own US govt CPI inflation calculator...wonder what analysis of AvB will reveal: good, bad, ugly, or fair deal? Spun it twice, and it wasn't so nice. Have a try yourself!!

(Oct 2021 vs Oct 2022 comparison, lost $2,558.54 in value)

(Oct 2017 vs Oct 2022 comparison....the bonus would need to be presently $42.1k/year for parity...lost $7,115.27 in purchasing power and it hasn't been addressed..that's 20.3% of its original purchasing power)

Background data/ref' here: FY2017 was when it was made $35k

 

[Ryder1587]

It boggles my mind that people are actually making decisions about staying in or getting out based on this crappy “bonus that is not even close to the amount it should be. Either stay in because you want to or jump ship and make more in the outside world.  If the “bonus” is making you stay in you probably need to reevaluate your life choices.  

[Swizzle]

5 minutes ago, Ryder1587 said:

It boggles my mind that people are actually making decisions about staying in or getting out based on this crappy “bonus that is not even close to the amount it should be. Either stay in because you want to or jump ship and make more in the outside world.  If the “bonus” is making you stay in you probably need to reevaluate your life choices.  

How should someone determine what it is worth? Or what about how much their time is worth? I posit analysis such as these are the most common, portable comparisons...doesn't mean it's the only measure, however should be part of one's calculus. It certainly informs the financial analysis part of that calculus. If you're a military flying addict, then being knowledgeable of it is important. It's easier to inform the portion that flying low level is fun; not much fun-analysis needed there!

[brabus]

8 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Either stay in because you want to

I think that’s most bonus takers anyways. They were never really going to get out, so might as well take some extra money. Agreed it’s pretty dumb to stay in just because of the bonus. 

[FourFans]

I know the current version of the bonus was established in the 90's at 25k...but I don't know the exact date.  I used the 1995 for the CPI calculator for an average...

$48,277 is what it gave me for current dollars...

Is a post WWGulfWarOne pilot during draw-down somehow worth more than a current get-ready-for-china pilot?

[Lawman]

I think that’s most bonus takers anyways. They were never really going to get out, so might as well take some extra money. Agreed it’s pretty dumb to stay in just because of the bonus. 

I heard an interesting counter to the “you were just gonna stay anyway” crowd in the command echelons.

The Command Senior Warrant for USASOC tried that, a W4 flight lead from ARSOA goes “yeah I was gonna stay! And that bonus is what I give to the family I’m not seeing… so I don’t get divorced or hit with the Me or the Army ultimatum either way that money is small potatoes compared to the millions you’ve invested in me.”

Dude just stared at him blankly having completely lost the room of people being told “you were just gonna row the boat anyway so why make your life less crappy.”

Nobody in that level of leadership that makes decisions about bonus money would understand people not giving themselves wholly to the Military. You’re trying to convince people who the idea of getting out never occurred and they are so disconnected they think we all feel that way.


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[Danger41]

That example above is why I think the best senior officers and political officials are the ones that come from real working backgrounds and not some puppy mill. How is some 4 star that’s a legacy graduate of a service academy that’s known nothing besides the AF going to relate to normies? Or the senator who did student council, boys state, Ivy League, Ivy League law, senate staffer, etc understand that not everyone looks at service purely as some patriotic duty above all else? 
 

Tangentially related but this is why I like Teddy Roosevelt so much. Total silver spoon upbringing but moves to North Dakota after his wife and mom die on the same day and works a “strenuous life”. Gets to know real people and see what they’re about.