Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[Prozac]

Good read (yes it’s NYT…Still, very well written and reasoned). Would encourage those here who are concerned about escalation of the war to read with an open mind. There are myriad reasons that appeasing Putin’s nuclear threats are a bad idea, not the least of which is that the threat itself becomes a weapon Putin can use at will to get what he wants. This essay expounds on that idea & makes a good case for holding the line against Russian threats. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/russia-war-ukraine-nuclear.html

[ClearedHot]

Russian Soldier surrenders to Ukrainian drone while Russian forces shoot at him.

 

[M2]

5 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Russian Soldier surrenders to Ukrainian drone while Russian forces shoot at him.

 

The video...
 

 

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/AvoooKiRxTlekGJ2POVtcjw
 

  Good day in Ukraine, four more Russian aircraft shot down or crashed.

[Biff_T]

5 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

https://apple.news/AvoooKiRxTlekGJ2POVtcjw
 

  Good day in Ukraine, four more Russian aircraft shot down or crashed.

Awesome!!! 

That's what they get for intentionally trageting civilians.  A nice long SAM or AAA right up the pooper. 

[DirkDiggler]

 

[pawnman]

32 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

 

Shot down their own aircraft. 

And to think people still claim they're going to win in Ukraine. 

[uhhello]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Shot down their own aircraft. 

And to think people still claim they're going to win in Ukraine. 

•  
• U.S. Patriot missile batteries fired two missiles on a U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, Iraq.^[344] One missile hit the aircraft of pilot Lieutenant Nathan Dennis White of VFA-195, Carrier Air Wing Five, killing him on April 2, 2003. This was the result of the missile design flaw in identifying hostile aircraft.^[345]

 

• A U.S. Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A of No. 13 Squadron RAF, killing the pilot and navigator. Investigations showed that the Tornado's identification friend or foe indicator had malfunctioned and hence it was not identified as a friendly aircraft.^[334][335]

 

It happens.  

 

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, uhhello said:

•  
• U.S. Patriot missile batteries fired two missiles on a U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, Iraq.^[344] One missile hit the aircraft of pilot Lieutenant Nathan Dennis White of VFA-195, Carrier Air Wing Five, killing him on April 2, 2003. This was the result of the missile design flaw in identifying hostile aircraft.^[345]

 

• A U.S. Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A of No. 13 Squadron RAF, killing the pilot and navigator. Investigations showed that the Tornado's identification friend or foe indicator had malfunctioned and hence it was not identified as a friendly aircraft.^[334][335]

 

It happens.  

 

Not saying it never happens... but 4 in one day? Over your own country? 

Have we ever lost a US aircraft to a US SAM system over the US?

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Not saying it never happens... but 4 in one day? Over your own country? 

Have we ever lost a US aircraft to a US SAM system over the US?

Have we ever been in sustained 24 hour combat operations with a very credible air threat?  Obviously something was going on that caused a giant increase in "shoot at anything flying".  

[Lawman]

Not saying it never happens... but 4 in one day? Over your own country? 
Have we ever lost a US aircraft to a US SAM system over the US?

Honestly given Patriot’s track record, I’d say that has more to do with the lack of active ground based air defense in the US.

You guys realize you are relying on an Army element of the TAGS/AAGS architecture to not only have the right mode 4/5 comsec, but also to have the smartest people you’d expect over there. There is a good reason we are planing our routes to avoid friendly concentrations of forces.

Hint: Air Defense doesn’t require near the asvab score you would expect it does. And one of the dumbest warrants I’ve ever worked with was an AD branch guy.


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[FourFans]

8 hours ago, pawnman said:

Not saying it never happens... but 4 in one day? Over your own country? 

Have we ever lost a US aircraft to a US SAM system over the US?

It's significant. Thankfully we never have, but that's 100% because we opt to do our fighting on the other sides of the ponds.

7 hours ago, Lawman said:

Air Defense doesn’t require near the asvab score you would expect it does. And one of the dumbest warrants I’ve ever worked with was an AD branch guy.

As a graduate of the Army's airspace control course...this is entirely accurate.  They understand joint airspace so well that they assume they'll get a coord altitude up the flight levels during a near peer conflict so they won't have to decon counterbattery fire with the USAF.  It's so far beyond laughable as to make one cry tears of grief for both the blue air they're going to shoot down, and the ground troops who won't get the air support they'll need.

Edited May 14, 2023 by FourFans

[pawnman]

12 hours ago, uhhello said:

Have we ever been in sustained 24 hour combat operations with a very credible air threat?  Obviously something was going on that caused a giant increase in "shoot at anything flying".  

It warms my heart to think Russia has so much fear of Ukrainian air assets that they're shooting anything they see.

[Lawman]

As a graduate of the Army's airspace control course...this is entirely accurate.  They understand joint airspace so well that they assume they'll get a coord altitude up the flight levels during a near peer conflict so they won't have to decon counterbattery fire with the USAF.  It's so far beyond laughable as to make one cry tears of grief for both the blue air they're going to shoot down, and the ground troops who won't get the air support they'll need.

It’s only getting worse…

LSCO has fundamentally shifted the application but the mindset or “oh everything below X altitude is just mine,” has been hard solidified in two decades of COIN “Doctrine.”

And in the next couple years we’re looking to greatly increase our SHORAD and protection at the Division level. So having just done the Suwalki gap warfighter I’d say you’re best bet to fit through that 80 mile corridor of airspace nightmare…. Is to not and just come down from Norway or something.


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[TreeA10]

17 hours ago, uhhello said:

•  
• U.S. Patriot missile batteries fired two missiles on a U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet 50 mi (80 km) from Karbala, Iraq.^[344] One missile hit the aircraft of pilot Lieutenant Nathan Dennis White of VFA-195, Carrier Air Wing Five, killing him on April 2, 2003. This was the result of the missile design flaw in identifying hostile aircraft.^[345]

 

• A U.S. Patriot missile shot down a British Panavia Tornado GR.4A of No. 13 Squadron RAF, killing the pilot and navigator. Investigations showed that the Tornado's identification friend or foe indicator had malfunctioned and hence it was not identified as a friendly aircraft.^[334][335]

 

It happens.  

 

I flew that Patriot battalion home from Kuwait City Itnl on a CRAF flight and Battalion Exec was on the Jumpseat explaining what happened. I’m not sure what was/wasn’t classified but it involved a lot more than IFF and both were avoidable.

[Majestik Møøse]

Army Patriots will kill you without a thought because the right light turns on or doesn’t turn on. They do what they’re told and critical thought is discouraged because they’re punished for mistakes. Stay TF away from them.

The USAF should own their own air defenses.

[hindsight2020]

just like the EW mission, the usaf ceded the mission set at their own expense. False economies abound.

[brabus]

It shocks me the amount of things the Army has been given. I’ve worked with some phenomenal, intelligent Army bros who are empowered to lead and get shit done, the only problem is they’re in a category that makes up 0.0069% of the Army. 

[Clark Griswold]

Has there been any attempt to get the AAA mission from the Army?


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[Lawman]

Has there been any attempt to get the AAA mission from the Army?


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You want to own a supporting formation within an Army maneuver formation? One that has to get its organic maintenance and sustainability from the wider formation of Army it lives with?

I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I can give you a guess how your representation and treatment at the big table in Division when you literally exist to be apportioned out to BCTs as needed and now you aren’t even in an Army uniform. THAAD could probably be passed off pretty easily, but everything below that is too entrenched into maneuver formations.


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[DirkDiggler]

Busy night over Kyiv, hope the AD batteries came through unscathed.

[Clark Griswold]

You want to own a supporting formation within an Army maneuver formation? One that has to get its organic maintenance and sustainability from the wider formation of Army it lives with?

I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I can give you a guess how your representation and treatment at the big table in Division when you literally exist to be apportioned out to BCTs as needed and now you aren’t even in an Army uniform. THAAD could probably be passed off pretty easily, but everything below that is too entrenched into maneuver formations.


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Point taken just askin’
THAAD mission seems applicable to big blue


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[Biff_T]

5 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

Busy night over Kyiv, hope the AD batteries came through unscathed.

Thats a lot of airbursts.  Looks so peaceful until you get closer lol.  

Edited May 16, 2023 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[Lawman]

Point taken just askin’
THAAD mission seems applicable to big blue


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It does, and honestly it would more mirror the Russian force structure. Even still, as the systems go from big theatre stuff to divisional/regimental footprints the parent you live with is gonna change.

Little known fact though, SA-22 isn’t an Army system, but look at where it is currently nested in Ukraine trying to plug holes and shore up the regular aligned Army ADs.


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[uhhello]

If only there were indicators he might be up to something....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/politics/pentagon-leak-classified-documents-teixeira/index.html

 

Quote

The first memorandum discussed an incident in September 2022 in which Teixeira was observed taking notes on classified intelligence and then putting those notes in his pocket. Though some of the report is redacted, it concludes by saying that Teixeira was instructed to “no longer take notes in any form on classified intelligence information.”

Quote

A month later, Teixeira’s supervisors were “made aware that … Teixeira was potentially ignoring a cease-and-desist order on deep diving into intelligence,” a second report states. Teixeira had attended a classified briefing and was asking “very specific questions” about the information provided, the report said, and he was again told to stop and “focus on his job.”

In a third incident report, a superior in Teixeira’s unit stated she observed him looking at intelligence “that was not related to his primary duty.” Teixeira was not reprimanded, the report indicated, but his superiors were notified of the observation.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by uhhello