The Next President is...

[HossHarris]

Get a room queers

[herkbum]

Get a room queers

F*** off! I hired him at his ANG and have since moved away.

Looks like is censored

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[brabus]

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1692282708397863374?s=57&t=kJzkkF_dxqcTfdJgf3sbLQ
 

Really good discussion from Vivek. Even if you hate Tucker, this is worth your time. He actually talks very little (surprising, I know) - it’s mostly Vivek talking. It’s time we have an election that isn’t Trump v Biden (or similar old, rich white dudes). 

[uhhello]

14 minutes ago, brabus said:

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1692282708397863374?s=57&t=kJzkkF_dxqcTfdJgf3sbLQ
 

Really good discussion from Vivek. Even if you hate Tucker, this is worth your time. He actually talks very little (surprising, I know) - it’s mostly Vivek talking. It’s time we have an election that isn’t Trump v Biden (or similar old, rich white dudes). 

He has my vote by a landslide at this point. 

[brabus]

I’m actually glad trump isn’t going to the debate, now I can actually watch it to help inform my opinion of the primary candidates. But of course in dbag fashion he’s going on tucker at the same time, which also makes tucker complicit in the dbaggery. I really hope people see through that bullshit and watch the debate - you can always watch Tucker’s trump interview later…don’t give trump the satisfaction of a winning a ratings war. 

[pawnman]

19 minutes ago, brabus said:

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1692282708397863374?s=57&t=kJzkkF_dxqcTfdJgf3sbLQ
 

Really good discussion from Vivek. Even if you hate Tucker, this is worth your time. He actually talks very little (surprising, I know) - it’s mostly Vivek talking. It’s time we have an election that isn’t Trump v Biden (or similar old, rich white dudes). 

I listened to Vivek on the All In podcast and I thought he did a pretty good job. I have some disagreements with him, but at this stage, I think he may be the closest to what I would want in the White House. 

And the left can't accuse him off just being an old white man, so the diversity angle is covered. 

[brabus]

I also like that he’s in his 30s with a family. Even if we’re in different circles of society, or don’t completely agree on everything, I would love to see someone who actually is living in the stage of life with kids at home. I’m sick of some 75+ yr old who is so out of touch with the American family (regardless of which party) but acts like they know what you need. 

[ViperMan]

Vivek loses me when he supports Snowden being pardoned. Who, for the record, is a Russian counter-intelligence professional. A spy who did more damage to our national security than anyone else I can name, except for maybe the Rosenbergs. He has fell, hook, line, and sinker, for a Russian op. Having him as President would be good in some dimensions, and catastrophic in others. Maybe he'll wake up, time will tell. I think his heart is in the right place overall, but he is woefully misled in certain areas.

[brabus]

@ViperManWhat things do you see as catastrophic?

Edited August 20, 2023 by brabus

[brabus]

11 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Vivek loses me when he supports Snowden being pardoned.

I also hated Snowden for years, but there’s a lot to that story that many who hate him don’t actually know. He didn’t just expose a ton of random SAPs, etc, he exposed specific, very illegal, comm collection programs the NSA directed all over, including millions of untargeted Americans and other foreign nationals (as in they collected all their shit as “collateral damage” or “just in case we need it later”). The program was proven to be used for personal gain (agents spying on ex’s and things like that). It was so damning and illegal that congress actually forced change and restricted our intelligence gathering on Joe Blow, which is a good thing. 
 

So that’s just to say I can understand the logic of the action, while also not condoning the mishandling of classified/the method of whistleblowing Snowden took. He did a wrong action to expose incredibly wrong and illegal govt actions vs. millions. So perhaps this is a case of two wrongs make a right, the right being pardon because of the proven govt corruption and illegal shit that was at least attempted to be solved only because of his actions. Would I pardon him? I don’t know, but I can see why someone might. And that’s why this topic does not move the needle for me on Vivek or any other candidate who may say the same. 

[BashiChuni]

21 hours ago, pawnman said:

I listened to Vivek on the All In podcast and I thought he did a pretty good job. I have some disagreements with him, but at this stage, I think he may be the closest to what I would want in the White House. 

And the left can't accuse him off just being an old white man, so the diversity angle is covered. 

agree

[VMFA187]

16 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Vivek loses me when he supports Snowden being pardoned. Who, for the record, is a Russian counter-intelligence professional. A spy who did more damage to our national security than anyone else I can name, except for maybe the Rosenbergs. He has fell, hook, line, and sinker, for a Russian op. Having him as President would be good in some dimensions, and catastrophic in others. Maybe he'll wake up, time will tell. I think his heart is in the right place overall, but he is woefully misled in certain areas.

You'll never find someone who agrees on every issue. And Brabus did a nice job of summing up how many have felt, and now feel about Snowden. 

[Pooter]

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/21/trump-republican-2024-voters-poll

Respondents said they trust trump to tell them the truth more than family members or their religious leaders. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ 

This has moved past ideological capture and into full blown mental disorder. 

[Danger41]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:10 AM, brabus said:

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1692282708397863374?s=57&t=kJzkkF_dxqcTfdJgf3sbLQ
 

Really good discussion from Vivek. Even if you hate Tucker, this is worth your time. He actually talks very little (surprising, I know) - it’s mostly Vivek talking. It’s time we have an election that isn’t Trump v Biden (or similar old, rich white dudes). 

I listened to this and the highlight to me was about the 35 minute point where he answers the obvious bait question about the alphabet soup people. Good interview and thanks for posting.

[Blue]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/21/trump-republican-2024-voters-poll

Respondents said they trust trump to tell them the truth more than family members or their religious leaders. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ 

This has moved past ideological capture and into full blown mental disorder. 

I don't want to interrupt anyone enjoying their daily dose of political rage-porn.

But I've kind of taken to ignoring any "news story" that begins with the following:

• Recent polls say...
• Studies show...
• Experts say...

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I don't want to interrupt anyone enjoying their daily dose of political rage-porn.

But I've kind of taken to ignoring any "news story" that begins with the following:

• Recent polls say...
• Studies show...
• Experts say...

Fair enough, lots of polling and the reporting on such polls is click bait-ey.
 

But I'm not sure how else you find out what people think if you don't ask them.  Aggregating poll responses is one of the best ways to find out what Americans think as long as the errors are reasonably controlled for through sample size, demographic representation, and unbiased questions. 
 

CBS/Yougov are a reasonably accurate poll source (B+ according to fivethirtyeight.)  So a poll showing trust for any politician over one's own friends/family/religious leader, is a deeply troubling result.  
 

You've got a huge portion of the Republican based captured basically beyond the point of no return. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out with most roads, unfortunately, leading to a democrat in the White House. 

[ViperMan]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:37 AM, brabus said:

I also hated Snowden for years, but there’s a lot to that story that many who hate him don’t actually know. He didn’t just expose a ton of random SAPs, etc, he exposed specific, very illegal, comm collection programs the NSA directed all over, including millions of untargeted Americans and other foreign nationals (as in they collected all their shit as “collateral damage” or “just in case we need it later”). The program was proven to be used for personal gain (agents spying on ex’s and things like that). It was so damning and illegal that congress actually forced change and restricted our intelligence gathering on Joe Blow, which is a good thing. 

So that’s just to say I can understand the logic of the action, while also not condoning the mishandling of classified/the method of whistleblowing Snowden took. He did a wrong action to expose incredibly wrong and illegal govt actions vs. millions. So perhaps this is a case of two wrongs make a right, the right being pardon because of the proven govt corruption and illegal shit that was at least attempted to be solved only because of his actions. Would I pardon him? I don’t know, but I can see why someone might. And that’s why this topic does not move the needle for me on Vivek or any other candidate who may say the same. 

Based on what you wrote, it's safe to say we have diametrically opposed views on who and what Snowden is and we will not likely reach agreement. I think he is a sock-puppet Russian spy who was specifically designed to take advantage of a certain element within the American psyche that looks to defend the concept of liberty and has a certain default level of distrust in the government - all of which I can understand to some degree, and which I can support given our country's founding on July 4th. It makes him the perfect psyop. You can also look at the precipitous slide in relations between major world powers in the last 10 years (i.e. since 2013 when the revelations happened) and the theft of other computer-hacking tools from the CIA/NSA/etc, which have certainly been used against us to unknown effect and draw a not-so-indistinct line between the idea that a "patriot" traitor inspired other people in positions of trust within our government to betray it. How were those tools "stolen"? Do we even know? Are they being used against us right now?

The bit about how the program was used for personal gain/vendetta carries the same structure as the "guns kill people" argument from the left. Any tool can be used or abused by people with an agenda - that doesn't negate the necessity of the tool. And in any case, the NSA isn't collecting a database of your dick-pics. Even if they were, based purely on volume, they'd only be able to look at a single pic for no more than .000069 seconds.

You call what he did whistle-blowing. I call what he did treason. I don't think those NSA programs were illegal. I think the Russians/Chinese/terrorists, probably already had some general idea that they were going on, but the net effect was to inspire a distrust in the US institutional apparatus...how's that working for us today? So yeah, when Vivek says he would pardon Snowden, he loses me - because it shows me his level of discernment/big picture SA. He has missed the point of Snowden - which was to inspire distrust of our government - not to disclose government programs that basically amount to the government collecting data that everyone was willingly giving to there phone-service provider anyway.

[lloyd christmas]

So, who got to Hunter when all this first started?  It’s pretty obvious that some bad actor on the word stage caught wind of the “US Vice President’s drug addict son”.   Hunter quickly became the easy target for the bad guys to exploit and Hunter quickly sold out.  Joe wasn’t initially involved but got roped in.  And then things got out of control. 

[brabus]

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

You've got a huge portion of the Republican based captured basically beyond the point of no return

Same for the left. It’s disheartening to see it happen on both sides. To the polling topic, we’re not too far down the road from a lot of polling showing a “red wave” in the midterms…it should have been a bloodbath for the Dems, until it wasn’t. The solution is we need candidates who are closer to center and able to actually let the other side speak while actually listening. Whether that person is slightly left or right of center almost doesn’t matter, we just don’t need more candidates who are massively pegged to one side of the spectrum - that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing for too long.

[brabus]

@ViperMan Fair enough, thanks for the reply. Only thing to add…
 

36 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

I don't think those NSA programs were illegal

The courts did in fact find the NSA illegally violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. So yeah, they were illegal, at least in how they were being used. 

[Pooter]

13 minutes ago, brabus said:

Same for the left. It’s disheartening to see it happen on both sides. To the polling topic, we’re not too far down the road from a lot of polling showing a “red wave” in the midterms…it should have been a bloodbath for the Dems, until it wasn’t. The solution is we need candidates who are closer to center and able to actually let the other side speak while actually listening. Whether that person is slightly left or right of center almost doesn’t matter, we just don’t need more candidates who are massively pegged to one side of the spectrum - that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing for too long.

Agree on the polarization 100%. But I think the democrat base would pivot to support another candidate if Biden were to step aside.  Sure the Dems are ideologically captured in some batshit positions but I don't see the same level of loyalty to an individual person like you do with the right base and trump. There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 
 

[uhhello]

52 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Agree on the polarization 100%. But I think the democrat base would pivot to support another candidate if Biden were to step aside.  Sure the Dems are ideologically captured in some batshit positions but I don't see the same level of loyalty to an individual person like you do with the right base and trump. There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 
 

Who is the Dem alternative.  They have to have someone in the wings because they know he ain't going to make it to the end of the year.  No chance.  

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

So, who got to Hunter when all this first started?  It’s pretty obvious that some bad actor on the word stage caught wind of the “US Vice President’s drug addict son”.   Hunter quickly became the easy target for the bad guys to exploit and Hunter quickly sold out.  Joe wasn’t initially involved but got roped in.  And then things got out of control. 

joes been involved for a long, long time

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 

All we can hope for is you’re wrong, but I understand completely why you feel that way. It’s frustrating how many GOP voters can’t pull their heads out of trump’s ass to see the bigger picture. Hopefully that demographic sucks at voting in the primaries and the rest of us vote. It fundamentally comes down to, do you want to win, or do you want 4 more years of disaster? If you want to win, Trump’s the worst horse to pick.

[SurelySerious]

What his followers don’t realize at this point is he’s out there “campaigning” to fundraise for his defense fund- normal ego stroking aside.