Recruiting Crisis: 9% want to serve

[mp5g]

I think that the real issue is that kids today just don’t have any idea who Doug Masters was or what he did for his family and country. Obviously we need a refreshed Iron Eagle movie to appeal to these youngins. Make Samuel L Jackson the new Chappie. 

[Biff_T]

Dis is da Bluebird, I be ready to refuel

[FourFans]

Samuel L Jackson would be droppin the MFing Hades Bombs all over that bitch!

How do we make this happen?!

[Bigred]

18 hours ago, gearhog said:

What about serving today is better than 10-20 years ago? Why do you think it will remain the same or improve for someone who joins today?

Better quality of life (paternity leave is one example). Better pay. Housing and dorms vastly improved from when I lived in the barracks. 
 

No sequestration of flight hours. Parts that are actually available. 
 

JFIRE and JCAS being incorporated across all branches vs individual branches having their own CAS methods. 

 

That’s an example from admin, ops, and tactics. I can keep going.

 

I laugh when people say ‘what’s better than 10-20 years ago’. My dad enlisted in the late 70s, he said he got slapped around. I enlisted in the late 90s, didn’t get hit but we lived in moldy ass barracks and had no hot water. Kids these days think it sucks they have to field day the barracks.

 

Life was always ‘better 10-20 years ago’. When people say that I ask them to actually, seriously, look at what was going on then versus now. 

[gearhog]

9 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I laugh when people say ‘what’s better than 10-20 years ago’. My dad enlisted in the late 70s, he said he got slapped around. I enlisted in the late 90s, didn’t get hit but we lived in moldy ass barracks and had no hot water. Kids these days think it sucks they have to field day the barracks.

Life was always ‘better 10-20 years ago’. When people say that I ask them to actually, seriously, look at what was going on then versus now. 

You could actually slap people around in the 1970s? How can you say that's not better? Now words are violence. 😄

You bring up an interesting point. Some perks, benefits, and conditions may be better, but "kids these days" think it sucks. All of the things you're touting can be gotten outside the military as well. The "Job" is the difference. Why is it no longer attractive to recruits?

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Jul/14/2003035423/-1/-1/1/STRENGTHENING-FOOD-SECURITY-IN-THE-FORCE-STRATEGY-AND-ROADMAP.PDF

"Analysis of the 2020 SOFS-A indicates that 76% of total active duty Service members
were food secure and 24% of active duty Service members experienced food insecurity
at some point in the preceding year of the survey."

 

[pbar]

8 hours ago, jonlbs said:

During my time working with ROTC I was shocked at how little people actually wanted to fly, I figured there would be 100 kids fighting for pilot slots but that just isn’t the case. I’m actually shocked at how many people I fly with at the airlines that have absolutely no interest in military flying or ever had any interest in anything military in general. So targeting the kids with your experiences might not work.

Air Force JROTC has a full ride PPL scholarship with no obligation incurred and yet in the three years I've been teaching it, I've only had 5 out of 250+ cadets apply.  I would have killed for an opportunity like that when I was in high school...

[HuggyU2]

The demise of the O'Club on Friday is something I miss. 
 

We used to have standard Friday stuff happening in the squadron... and around 1700 we would head to The Big House, meet the wives, and have a great time. 
 

The camaraderie among the wives was pretty high back then, as a result. They did some pretty funny shit and managed to avoid getting arrested on base. 
 

There were two years in a row when Hiram Walker sponsored  an ACC Crud Tournament at D-M and the winners (Moody AFB) got a $10,000 check. It was absolutely epic. The D-M Wing CC gave the opening remarks and I was expecting the usual bullshit-cover-your-ass. Not so much. He pretty much said "fight's on" and have a great time... and still made 2-stars. 
I recall that every ACC base but one sent a team TDY the first year. I simply cannot imagine that happening in today's climate. 

Our Beale team didn't win, but we did show up to the bar at 0930 on Saturday and didn't depart until 0230 Sunday. 
 

What a weekend. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by HuggyU2

[brabus]

@jonlbs I don’t doubt your experience in ROTC. Pawnman’s ROTC example of a couple pilots talking to cadets and rated desire skyrockets is important - turns out telling a few stories and dispelling WOMs does actually make a noticeable impact in someone’s desire to serve/fly, even in present day. There are thousands of 20 something’s clamoring to be pilots every year. So while I certainly understand your perspective and its validity, it would also be invalid to claim that’s just how all kids are these days and no talking about one’s mil service will change their minds. 
 

Also keep in mind this whole runaround seems premised off this idea that guys are lecturing a captive audience. 99% of the time it’s a kid asking questions and you just answering. Very different than what it seems Joe is trying to accuse people of. I’m still confused how being asked about serving in the mil and answering positively, using real examples to support what you’re saying, is a bad thing.

[RASH]

The demise of the O'Club on Friday is something I miss. 
 
We used to have standard Friday stuff happening in the squadron... and around 1700 we would head to The Big House, meet the wives, and have a great time. 
 
The camaraderie among the wives was pretty high back then, as a result. They did some pretty funny shit and managed to avoid getting arrested on base. 
 
There were two years in a row when Hiram Walker sponsored  an ACC Crud Tournament at D-M and the winners (Moody AFB) got a $10,000 check. It was absolutely epic. The D-M Wing CC gave the opening remarks and I was expecting the usual bullshit-cover-your-ass. Not so much. He pretty much said "fight's on" and have a great time... and still made 2-stars. 
I recall that every ACC base but one sent a team TDY the first year. I simply cannot imagine that happening in today's climate. 
Our Beale team didn't win, but we did show up to the bar at 0930 on Saturday and didn't depart until 0230 Sunday. 
 
What a weekend. 

UPT/FAIP world in 1990 was the same. Our WG/CC had the keys to the O Club bar that didn’t officially open until 1630. He opened it and unlocked the beer cooler at noon every Friday.


Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app

[Lord Ratner]

10 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

The demise of the O'Club on Friday is something I miss

This. Everytime I had an O-6 or above asking why my generation didn't want to stay in longer, I had to explain that I simply didn't have the same memories they had from their CGO years. It takes a lot of emotional attachment to the military to want to deal with the life of an FGO and above, and frankly, we didn't have that, especially in the heavy world.

 

Instead, we had the all-men-are-rapists campaign, the great cleansing of 2012, RIFs from my second year at USAFA until the sudden reversal in 2015, 0-0-1-3 and literal article 15s for shenanigans that were tame compared to the stories the O-6 writing the Art15 would tell in private, blah blah blah. Never mind the two-months-on two-months-off deployments to the Died that guys would do for years because the AF decided that trickfucking the 90 day flying hours restrictions was more important than any sort of balanced family life, or the camaraderie built from deploying as a squadron.

 

Ironically, after I was court martialed (not guilty all charges) it *improved* my Air Force experience. I was immediately relieved of all the non-flying nonsense that they make you do to chase down the next promotion. I would have done anything to get "back on the path," but they were done with me, and boy when you start producing the quality of work that you would expect from someone who has been guaranteed to be passed over, they stop giving you work to do. 

If the AF wants to improve retention they need to accept that young people who want to kill people for their country have a lot of energy to burn in unsavory ways. Fail to provide that and they will not serve for another 10-20 years off the inertia of great memories and personal connections. Those people will in turn help recruiting.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Lord Ratner

[gearhog]

57 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Ironically, after I was court martialed (not guilty all charges) it *improved* my Air Force experience. I was immediately relieved of all the non-flying nonsense that they make you do to chase down the next promotion. I would have done anything to get "back on the path," but they were done with me, and boy when you start producing the quality of work that you would expect from someone who has been guaranteed to be passed over, they stop giving you work to do. 

 

Great post. Can you give a vague synopsis of what happened?

[Lord Ratner]

33 minutes ago, gearhog said:

Great post. Can you give a vague synopsis of what happened?

Fooled around with an E when drunk (stupid, I know), turns out she had a history of cheating so when her husband (stupid, I know) got suspicious she claimed rape/sexual assault.

 

Every single thing in the case pointed towards my story, to include when OSI wired her and had her try to get a confession from me, DNA evidence, every single witness testimony, a ton of pictures from that night showing her being very "friendly" with me, etc etc etc.

 

It was $15,000 and a lot of stress for my family and friends, but I got more than paid back financially when the AF kicked me out with a $70k severance (no continuation offered) and I got to start at the airlines 2 years earlier than my UPT ADSC would have allowed. I also met my wife when they sent me to SOS at 9 years 3 months, the literal last week of eligibility, as some sort of consolation for being court martialed🤣. So things work out strange sometimes.

 

I still owe you a reply in the Ukraine thread, but our union negotiations have my limited rhetorical attention span occupied at the moment.

[Sua Sponte]

On the flip side I was an E who banged two E’s, one accused me being a rapist after lying on a statement saying we never banged, court martialed, acquitted of being a rapist and found guilty of dereliction of duty X 2 for banging two E’s. Demoted two stripes and an LOR.

Since the USAF was sour grapes I didn’t get a punitive discharge, they sent me to a discharge hearing and got separated at 16 years.

I ran into one of the E’s a few years ago at Altus as a contractor. She quickly realized her Post-USAF aspirations of working for my company as a sim instructor were slim to nill as I’m a PM on the program.
 

I await the passed over C-17 jerkoff virgin in here that follows me around this forum saying what a good thing it was I got booted. 

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

On the flip side I was an E who banged two E’s,

Same time?

[Sua Sponte]

45 minutes ago, gearhog said:

Same time?

Close

[slc]

Blonde or brunette?  Hot?  Sorry, just trying to paint a visual here 

[Day Man]

2 minutes ago, slc said:

Blonde or brunette?  Hot?  Sorry, just trying to paint a visual here 

just PM him politely and ask him to take a selfie...

[CharlieHotel47]

what guard units out there are saying F!@# off big blue and allowing their guys to still wear Morale shirts out there... 

What will they come for next? My pickle suit? it's the only thing that makes me feel like a real pilot. I thought my guard unit would shield me from the AD duty BS that trickles down from time to time.

[08Dawg]

3 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

what guard units out there are saying F!@# off big blue and allowing their guys to still wear Morale shirts out there... 

 

Dude, I know some active duty units doing this. 

[brabus]

All of them? That’s the only acceptable answer. 

[Runr6730]

On 7/26/2023 at 7:24 PM, CharlieHotel47 said:

what guard units out there are saying F!@# off big blue and allowing their guys to still wear Morale shirts out there...

Not today, OSI

[Polar Bear]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:47 AM, Lord Ratner said:

This. Everytime I had an O-6 or above asking why my generation didn't want to stay in longer, I had to explain that I simply didn't have the same memories they had from their CGO years. It takes a lot of emotional attachment to the military to want to deal with the life of an FGO and above, and frankly, we didn't have that, especially in the heavy world.

 

Instead, we had the all-men-are-rapists campaign, the great cleansing of 2012, RIFs from my second year at USAFA until the sudden reversal in 2015, 0-0-1-3 and literal article 15s for shenanigans that were tame compared to the stories the O-6 writing the Art15 would tell in private, blah blah blah. Never mind the two-months-on two-months-off deployments to the Died that guys would do for years because the AF decided that tricking the 90 day flying hours restrictions was more important than any sort of balanced family life, or the camaraderie built from deploying as a squadron.

 

Ironically, after I was court martialed (not guilty all charges) it *improved* my Air Force experience. I was immediately relieved of all the non-flying nonsense that they make you do to chase down the next promotion. I would have done anything to get "back on the path," but they were done with me, and boy when you start producing the quality of work that you would expect from someone who has been guaranteed to be passed over, they stop giving you work to do. 

If the AF wants to improve retention they need to accept that young people who want to kill people for their country have a lot of energy to burn in unsavory ways. Fail to provide that and they will not serve for another 10-20 years off the inertia of great memories and personal connections. Those people will in turn help recruiting.

This doesn’t happen anymore?

 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Polar Bear said:

This doesn’t happen anymore?

 

Which part?

[SocialD]

On 7/26/2023 at 7:24 PM, CharlieHotel47 said:

what guard units out there are saying F!@# off big blue and allowing their guys to still wear Morale shirts out there...

 

A better question is which ones aren't?  Then stay away from those squadrons.   

[Danger41]

I’ve seen this happen a few times over the years about not wearing the squadron morale shirts, Friday patches, even the OG at Kadena is having Eagle Drivers not wear their Eagle Driver patches (you know, as their jet with nearly 5 decades and 104 kills worth of history goes away and they are all thrown into thrash). I legitimately don’t understand the impulse to take that away. Does anyone have a compelling answer? And I know most of you are rabid retards that hate the Air Force and are looking for any reason to complain, but I’m curious for a legitimate answer.