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Monkeypox - a friendly discussion.


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Life pro-tips: 

And politicians say all sorts of dissembling nonsense

Edit: I don't think nsplayr is dissembling, Biden is in reference to what I assume is a monkeypox question.

Edited by busdriver
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9 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Wow, the President wants to look into if we can use an existing vaccine or develop a new one to help protect people from a deadly virus, what an asshole!! /sarcasm

Folks, vaccines are really really good. Massive net positive for humanity. The levels of disease and pestilence and death our ancestors regularly had to suffer through are just unthinkable today, in part because of vaccines (and clean water & sanitation!).

Life pro-tips: Don’t shit where you eat, don’t drink from that murky stream of runoff, and get your MFing vaccines.

Remember when super liberal hippie moms were the biggest drivers of the anti-vaxx movement? 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2022 at 1:53 PM, nsplayr said:

No, it's actually spreading: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61506562

The point was that it would not be the first time that a tabletop exercise ended up being very prescient. I say good on them, I wish some of the BS exercises I've taken part of had been more accurate to real-world events!

The one thing I picked out from the article worth mentioning, "There are now 20 confirmed cases in the UK..."  I believe the non-African cases now total around 150!

Damn - chilling.  

Edited by GrndPndr
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Remember when super liberal hippie moms were the biggest drivers of the anti-vaxx movement? 

Yep, bunch of weirdo Goop chicks sticking crystals up their cooters and spreading measles around! Good riddance.

Edited by nsplayr
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11 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Life pro-tips: Don’t shit where you eat, don’t drink from that murky stream of runoff, and get your MFing vaccines.

The Current Thing – Stratechery by Ben Thompson

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24 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

If “the current thing” is not dying of preventable infectious disease, I do indeed support it!

I too wish to avoid dying of preventable infectious diseases.

I believe where we differ is that you have much more trust in our federal government than I do.

Good luck, I hope your trust in your government is rewarded, and that your mandated shots bring you the result you desire.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Blue said:

I too wish to avoid dying of preventable infectious diseases.

I believe where we differ is that you have much more trust in our federal government than I do.

Good luck, I hope your trust in your government is rewarded, and that your mandated shots bring you the result you desire.

No worries! I took the COVID vaccines voluntarily in order to protect myself and my family, along with many others over the years. I also got about 6-9 anthrax boosters on a more "voluntold" basis but what are ya gonna do 🤷‍♂️  I'm sure taking doxy for approx. 690 days while deployed (all while breathing in burn pit fumes!) was also totally harmless and healthy 😅

image.png.eb9d6c753afbd5826c67635fb6e5a296.png

(live look at me seeing my buddies retire & get their ratings)

And as a commissioned officer in the world's greatest Air Force, yea, I do "trust in our federal government" a fair bit I suppose despite all the shenanigans and buffoonery I've seen in ~15 years of service. Much more good than bad overall, plus the checks keep coming on the 1st and 15th which I greatly appreciate & hope to continue for the rest of my life. 🍻

Re: monkeypox...I knew all that sketchy unprotected sex at European raves would come back to bite me in the ass someday...

https://apnews.com/article/health-world-organization-united-nations-animals-72a9efaaf5b55ace396398b839847505

How can you blame me though??

image.png.695688005ef4ea866a56440212e47b95.png

Edited by nsplayr
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1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

If “the current thing” is not dying of preventable infectious disease, I do indeed support it!

Small point of order, there have been ZERO reported deaths from MonkeyPox.  Not that I want anyone in my family to deal with the symptoms and scars but a small bit of perspective. 

47 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

No worries! I took the COVID vaccines voluntarily in order to protect myself and my family, along with many others over the years. I also got about 6-9 anthrax boosters on a more "voluntold" basis but what are ya gonna do 🤷‍♂️  I'm sure taking doxy for approx. 690 days while deployed (all while breathing in burn pit fumes!) was also totally harmless and healthy 😅

I've been turned away from donating blood several times, not sure if it was the Anthrax booster, the burn pits or the European raves...

47 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

And as a commissioned officer in the world's greatest Air Force, yea, I do "trust in our federal government" a fair bit I suppose despite all the shenanigans and buffoonery I've seen in ~15 years of service. Much more good than bad overall, plus the checks keep coming on the 1st and 15th which I greatly appreciate & hope to continue for the rest of my life. 🍻

Yeah except for that whole giving when they purposely gave 5,000 U.S. soldiers over 250 different chemicals including PCP, LSD, mescaline and BZ with the expressed purpose of testing for delirium.  Oh and that time they lied about the Gulf of Tonkin.  Wait there were WMD in Iraq.  And eavesdropping on Americans through bulk collection.  You are correct, simple shenanigans.

55 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

 

image.png.eb9d6c753afbd5826c67635fb6e5a296.png

(live look at me seeing my buddies retire & get their ratings)

Give me a call when you get closer young Jedi

 

56 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

How can you blame me though??

image.png.695688005ef4ea866a56440212e47b95.png

Nope, not one bit.

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2 hours ago, Blue said:

I believe where we differ is that you have much more trust in our federal government than I do.

So who do you trust to give you pertinent information regarding infectious diseases and treatments? Jenny McCarthy? Q? Marjorie Taylor Greene? Or maybe Alex Jones? I’ll take my chances with the CDC, warts and all, thank you very much. 

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

So who do you trust to give you pertinent information regarding infectious diseases and treatments? Jenny McCarthy?...I’ll take my chances with the CDC, warts and all, thank you very much. 

You do you.

I'll take the one with better t1ts...

Cleavage : r/Jennymccarthy

 

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

So who do you trust to give you pertinent information regarding infectious diseases and treatments? Jenny McCarthy? Q? Marjorie Taylor Greene? Or maybe Alex Jones? I’ll take my chances with the CDC, warts and all, thank you very much. 

I don't know @Prozac.  Not sure why I'd be asking a washed up actress, congressman, or TV personality for any kind of medical advice.

But that's besides the point.  Back in the Before Times, if the CDC made a recommendation, I could evaluate it on my own.  I could consult my doctor, my friends, my clergyman, my drinking buddies, or the monster that lives under my bed.  I could make my own decision on what to do.  I could decide to do what the CDC recommends.  I could decide to do the opposite.  I could exercise my God-given American right to sit on my ass, and take absolutely no action at all.

Regardless of what I decided, I wouldn't face a loss of my job, being barred from local businesses, or anything of the sort.

But, I suppose those times are long past.

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49 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

You do you.

I'll take the one with better t1ts...

Cleavage : r/Jennymccarthy

 

Yes, taking medical advice based on breast size has GOT to be good for your health. This does say a lot about the current state of our country though. I’ll keep Jenny in the ‘better seen not heard’ file for the moment. 

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8 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

The one thing I picked out from the article worth mentioning, "There are now 20 confirmed cases in the UK..."  I believe the non-African cases now total around 150!

Damn - chilling.  

Update!

"U.S. health officials said Monday they knew of one confirmed case, in the state of Massachusetts, and four probable cases — two in Utah, one in Florida and one in New York City.  All were men who had traveled outside the U.S."

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3 hours ago, Blue said:

I don't know @Prozac.  Not sure why I'd be asking a washed up actress, congressman, or TV personality for any kind of medical advice.

But that's besides the point.  Back in the Before Times, if the CDC made a recommendation, I could evaluate it on my own.  I could consult my doctor, my friends, my clergyman, my drinking buddies, or the monster that lives under my bed.  I could make my own decision on what to do.  I could decide to do what the CDC recommends.  I could decide to do the opposite.  I could exercise my God-given American right to sit on my ass, and take absolutely no action at all.

Regardless of what I decided, I wouldn't face a loss of my job, being barred from local businesses, or anything of the sort.

But, I suppose those times are long past.

  Has the US government restricted or mandated anyone or anything in reference to Monkeypox?  At this point I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore.  This isn't the 1st time monkeypox has broken out in the US (reference the 2003 outbreak).  The government did fly some limited amounts of the smallpox vaccine to various locations and administered it to a couple dozen people post infection because it's an effective treatment.  Do you honestly believe that the US is going to mandate mass smallpox vaccination based on this?

  Your description above of your process in evaluating what vaccines you take isn't how the military works.  Are saying that for every vaccine you've received in the military, you evaluated what the CDC guidance is/was and chose to take the shot on your own?  That would've made the MEPS in-processing line or the initial deployment series real slow.  I don't know a single deployer with a vaccination record less than 3 pages long; up until this COVID drama, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of military members had no idea what was in the vaccines they took.   

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I know it was a different time but I told the AF to stick both the Gamma globulin and the Anthrax vaccine where the sun don't shine at the beginning of the gulf war. It wasn't an AF wide order but my squadron was ordered by the wing commander to line up and get both shots (they recommended Botulinum neurotoxin as well). I chose not to take any of them. After getting back home from the war and several trips back and forth to Europe and Saudi (July/August of 1991) the base hospital called me to see why I didn't get my required shots. I chose to ignore them and never heard another peep before I retired. I wasn't the only one at my base to forgo those shots and nobody was court marshaled or separated.

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On 5/22/2022 at 8:39 PM, nsplayr said:

Folks, vaccines are really really good. Massive net positive for humanity. The levels of disease and pestilence and death our ancestors regularly had to suffer through are just unthinkable today, in part because of vaccines (and clean water & sanitation!).

I often think about the child mortality around vaccines since I'm an older Dad now. I could not imagine losing swaths of kids to polio, *pox, or the long-term health effects they imposed.

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On 5/23/2022 at 7:41 PM, bfargin said:

I know it was a different time but I told the AF to stick both the Gamma globulin and the Anthrax vaccine where the sun don't shine at the beginning of the gulf war. It wasn't an AF wide order but my squadron was ordered by the wing commander to line up and get both shots (they recommended Botulinum neurotoxin as well). I chose not to take any of them. After getting back home from the war and several trips back and forth to Europe and Saudi (July/August of 1991) the base hospital called me to see why I didn't get my required shots. I chose to ignore them and never heard another peep before I retired. I wasn't the only one at my base to forgo those shots and nobody was court marshaled or separated.

This was not my experience in 99-06 when I saw people get paperwork for not getting those shots. I tried to dodge as well, but as a lowly E1-E3 at the time...I didn't have that privilege.

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On 5/23/2022 at 1:18 PM, Blue said:

I don't know @Prozac.  Not sure why I'd be asking a washed up actress, congressman, or TV personality for any kind of medical advice.

But that's besides the point.  Back in the Before Times, if the CDC made a recommendation, I could evaluate it on my own.  I could consult my doctor, my friends, my clergyman, my drinking buddies, or the monster that lives under my bed.  I could make my own decision on what to do.  I could decide to do what the CDC recommends.  I could decide to do the opposite.  I could exercise my God-given American right to sit on my ass, and take absolutely no action at all.

Regardless of what I decided, I wouldn't face a loss of my job, being barred from local businesses, or anything of the sort.

But, I suppose those times are long past.

"Back in the before times" certain workplaces still had health rules and you also had the god-given right as an American to not volunteer for the military or any other job with health requirements you don't like.  As far as I know we haven't drafted anyone since Vietnam, so you voluntarily signed on to the host of rules the military imposes on its members above and beyond the civilian population. 
 

On 5/23/2022 at 5:15 PM, DirkDiggler said:

Your description above of your process in evaluating what vaccines you take isn't how the military works.  Are saying that for every vaccine you've received in the military, you evaluated what the CDC guidance is/was and chose to take the shot on your own?  That would've made the MEPS in-processing line or the initial deployment series real slow.  I don't know a single deployer with a vaccination record less than 3 pages long; up until this COVID drama, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of military members had no idea what was in the vaccines they took.   

Exactly. I'm not aware of any time in recent military history where personal interpretations of cdc guidance, drinking buddies, or friends had any bearing on military medical requirements. Maybe clergy to a very tiny extent. 
 

Civilian world is a whole different discussion. But military members complaining about the rules they voluntarily subjected themselves to is hilarious stupidity. 

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Yeah I'm not remembering that commissioning brief where they told us we gave up every singe right by joining the military. When your "leaders" change they rules when the wind blows, I'd push back too.

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On 5/23/2022 at 4:47 PM, GrndPndr said:

Update!

"U.S. health officials said Monday they knew of one confirmed case, in the state of Massachusetts, and four probable cases — two in Utah, one in Florida and one in New York City.  All were men who had traveled outside the U.S."

Dr. John Campbell has a good video of how the current Monkeypox was brought to Europe and the U.S.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, bfargin said:

Yeah I'm not remembering that commissioning brief where they told us we gave up every singe right by joining the military. When your "leaders" change they rules when the wind blows, I'd push back too.

Your experience and actions deploying for Desert Storm may have been a valid tactic back then, when the Air Force less digitized and hundreds of thousands of people/dozens of squadrons bigger.  It isn't any longer.

  In my corner of the AF (can't speak for others), your immunization status is tracked via ASIMS and reported to Sq Mobility and leadership every week.  If you're overdue a shot, you get told to get it politely, once.  Then you're in the DO's office explaining why you're red on immunizations and therefore not ready for alerts or deployments.  Putting aside this recent COVID dicknannagans since this is supposedly about monkeypox, getting vaccines if you're a military member isn't a choice or negotiable based on your personal feelings; it's a condition of employment.

  I didn't particularly want to get Yellow Fever, JEV, Anthrax, Smallpox, or Rabies vaccines, but they were all required for me to deploy, they're required for me to continue serving and a lawful order, so I rolled up my sleeve and got them.  Much like PT tests, OPRs, or ancillary training, I may personally think some of them are stupid or silly but the corporation didn't ask me and doesn't give a shit about my opinion.  If I or anyone in my squadron starts to refuse vaccines, they're now non-deployable and a drag on the squadron cause we've got to find someone else to cover alerts or deployments. 

  If an individual's personal feelings/beliefs/analysis about vaccines are so strong that they refuse them, then it's time for that person to find different pastures besides military service.   

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

In my corner of the AF (can't speak for others), your immunization status is tracked via ASIMS and reported to Sq Mobility and leadership every week.  If you're overdue a shot, you get told to get it politely, once.  Then you're in the DO's office explaining why you're red on immunizations and therefore not ready for alerts or deployments.  Putting aside this recent COVID dicknannagans since this is supposedly about monkeypox, getting vaccines if you're a military member isn't a choice or negotiable based on your personal feelings; it's a condition of employment.

This is true from what I've seen, although I have to admit that I inexplicably did BFM my way out of ever getting a smallpox vaccine despite deploying 8 times 😅 #StoryTime

Our medical records were not really looked at closely when we were downrange due to some SOF hand-waiving (i.e. we did not processes in and out through normal Big Green/Blue medical facilities) and I guess the folks at HRT and CVS were just lazy and never really followed up effectively when I was at home the other 50% of the time.

FWIW the successful strategy (n=1 so YMMV) is that if your wife is pregnant, might be pregnant, or you have a child under age 1 in the house, you shouldn't get the smallpox vaccine while at home. So when I was offered the vaccine at home a couple of times, we were "trying to get pregnant," and for 1 year and 9 months of my deploying time, that was verifiably true (late 2010 through mid 2012). Home station med techs were like, "cool, you'll get it when you get downrange" and then because we never really turned in our deployment med records to anyone, I never did. 🤷‍♂️ I was never ordered to get it and I never "refused," I just kinda slipped through the cracks and was perfectly happy to let that happen.

Now I'm feeling dumb because it was an irrational desire to not get it in the first place and also since apparently the smallpox vaccine is potentially effective against the next plague God has potentially decided we as a species are worthy of lol. My rule-following wife is shooting me daggers with her eyes and double-checking on my life insurance policies just in case I get The Pox and kick the bucket haha.

Good luck if anyone ever wants to attempt to replicate...I imagine they look at that stuff a lot more closely after some small % of folks apparently decided all vaccines are optional now even though they joined the US Air Force and are not in the drive-thru line at Burger King.

Edited by nsplayr
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