Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[gearhog]

6 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CORRECT?  JFC, it like talking to someone that can't read.  State your position on what you think IS CORRECT.  Is that too hard?

Again with the personal attacks. Aspergers?  WTF is wrong with you that you can't make an intelligent point without personal attacks?  Oh, it must be the intelligence part.

First, calm down. You're getting emotional again. There is no good reason to type in all caps. Ever.

Second, you've whined about me writing too much, yet you seem to not have read any of it. For three years now, I've written quite a bit on what I believe should and should not be done in this conflict. In an earlier post today, I even spoon fed you the steps to searching this thread for what I've written on the subject. Why should I be obligated to rehash what I've already said multiple times just because you're too lazy or too ill-equipped to read a few pages back?

I can give you several examples of you using personal attacks recently, but it's only a problem when you're accusing someone else? That's both hypocrisy and projection. Remember: You referred to yourself as a dumbass. I have never called you any such thing. I think there's a good chance your opinion of yourself is lower than my opinion of you, thus the overcompensation and anger. I am not to blame for your low self-confidence.

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, Boomer6 said:

Do you think Putin equates invading a country that is not a part of NATO as the same as invading a NATO country?

I think Putin is a wildcard who was not intimidated by the last administration.  He grew up KGB and has no limits of evil when it comes to getting what he wants.  A rationale person would think he would stop at the Polish border, but his actions are not always rationale.  Thanks to his losses in Ukraine he will not pose a threat serious military threat to NATO for the rest of his life, but he will continue attempts to regain control of all the FSU countries including those now in NATO through influence, subterfuge, insurgency, murder, and who knows what other tools.   Think about it this way, he was not afraid to hack and attempt to influence our election, do you really think he is afraid of NATO?

[Boomer6]

When he invaded Georgia he didn't continue into Turkey. I also don't equate election influence, which we do/have done as well, to knowingly attacking a country that will trigger WWIII. A war like that would risk his hold on power and that's what I think he cares most about. I've got no problem assisting Ukraine, but that's not because I think he's going to invade a NATO country if we don't assist.

[Biff_T]

I miss the way George Dubya used to say "Vladimir Pootin".

[BashiChuni]

21 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

 A rationale person would think he would stop at the Polish border, but his actions are not always rationale. 

this is the root cause of our disagreement.

putin is VERY rational. he's been telling the west since 2008 what would happen if we seduce ukraine into nato.

the CIA forcasted exactly what he'd do in the leaked mid 2010 "no means no" memo.

 

if he wasn't rational then that CIA analysis wouldn't have come true.

[BashiChuni]

22 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Thanks for the personal attacks, I knew I could count on you, signed, dumbass.  It was Bashi that did the username, but I now think you are his alternate acct.

 

bro i'm living rent free on your keyboard nothing makes me happier!

[Sua Sponte]

20 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

When he invaded Georgia he didn't continue into Turkey. I also don't equate election influence, which we do/have done as well, to knowingly attacking a country that will trigger WWIII. A war like that would risk his hold on power and that's what I think he cares most about. I've got no problem assisting Ukraine, but that's not because I think he's going to invade a NATO country if we don't assist.

Turkey manufactures their own F-16s, had KC-135s (now Airbus MRTTs) for AR support, and tactical nukes. 

[Boomer6]

13 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

Turkey manufactures their own F-16s, had KC-135s (now Airbus MRTTs) for AR support, and tactical nukes. 

Poland has vipers and is under our nuclear umbrella...

[disgruntledemployee]

22 hours ago, gearhog said:

First, calm down. You're getting emotional again. There is no good reason to type in all caps. Ever.

Second, you've whined about me writing too much, yet you seem to not have read any of it. For three years now, I've written quite a bit on what I believe should and should not be done in this conflict. In an earlier post today, I even spoon fed you the steps to searching this thread for what I've written on the subject. Why should I be obligated to rehash what I've already said multiple times just because you're too lazy or too ill-equipped to read a few pages back?

I can give you several examples of you using personal attacks recently, but it's only a problem when you're accusing someone else? That's both hypocrisy and projection. Remember: You referred to yourself as a dumbass. I have never called you any such thing. I think there's a good chance your opinion of yourself is lower than my opinion of you, thus the overcompensation and anger. I am not to blame for your low self-confidence.

I used all caps because you seem dense in answering a basic question, so I had to use a bigger font for you to pay attention.  So here it is again, very plain.  Today, what do you think is correct regarding the ending of the Russia-Ukraine war?  Not 2 years ago, not 12 posts ago, today.  Your turn.

As for the rest, here are some of your bullshit personal attacks. 

On 2/14/2025 at 11:05 AM, gearhog said:

Either you can't read, or you can't retain information.

You're inauthentic, and you're slow.

You have the foresight of a Labrador puppy.

 

On 2/14/2025 at 3:12 PM, gearhog said:

You couldn't write a cookbook.

You're not a smart person.

 

23 hours ago, gearhog said:

your Asperger's is showing.

 

22 hours ago, gearhog said:

 your low self-confidence.

 

[gearhog]

12 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

I used all caps because you seem dense in answering a basic question, so I had to use a bigger font for you to pay attention.  So here it is again, very plain.  Today, what do you think is correct regarding the ending of the Russia-Ukraine war?  Not 2 years ago, not 12 posts ago, today.  Your turn.

As for the rest, here are some of your bullshit personal attacks.

Stop whining. You're behaving like someone's jaded ex-girlfriend keeping a list of all their grievances. Those are all verifiable statements of fact.

Just because you keep begging me to repeat myself doesn't mean I'm going to do it. You can't always get what you want.

However, I will give you some new and original thoughts for you to bitch about:

I can continue to write lengthy posts about what I think is right or correct. It doesn't matter now. There's a time for putting those ideas an opinions out in the public space to influence the planning process. It's over. It was over when Trump was elected. We're now in the implementation phase. Whatever your feelings and emotions are, they're worthless. You're going to have to live with whatever is decided for you.

It should be apparent by now is at least attempting to deliver on campaign promises. Ending the war in Ukraine was a big one. He's ego-driven and I think he's motivated to fulfill those promises not always because the orders/actions themselves are the right thing to do, but because he knows just doing what he said he was going to do garners him an enormous amount of credibility and support. Perhaps not from you, but ...shrug.

So, he said he was going to end it and he feels he must deliver on it. He mentions it in nearly every major press briefing. He also expresses regret for the "millions of soldiers" dying in the conflict. The problem here is he made a promise without conditions, and he seems to have taken direct military engagement off the table. This shifts the negotiating power-position somewhat toward Russia. Putin has made no promises and continues to demonstrate he'll fight it out on the battlefield indefinitely. Putin knows he can use this leverage to get Trump to make some concessions. Neither are going to capitulate fully. The most probable outcome is no NATO for Ukraine, Russia gets to keep Crimea and a significant portion of the land it fought over, and some easing of sanctions. We get to cease dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into this mess and get security guarantees from Russia that it won't invade Europe, pursue BRICs and other economic threats. Russia wasn't going to invade Europe anyway, but we can wave it around as if is a big win for us. Is it not reasonable to assume that Trump will continue the war without giving Russia a significant amount of its asks.

Happy? You're just gonna have to prepare yourself to transition from pissing and moaning about what I believe should happen to pissing and moaning about what has actually happened. It's out of our hands.

Edited February 16 by gearhog

[tac airlifter]

On 2/14/2025 at 8:34 PM, ClearedHot said:

Putin is a wildcard who ..... has no limits of evil when it comes to getting what he wants.  A rationale person would think he would stop at the Polish border, but his actions are not always rationale. Think about it this way, he was not afraid to hack and attempt to influence our election, do you really think he is afraid of NATO?

I disagree with the first (truncated) sentence; "no limits of evil" is an overstatement.  He hasn't used artillery with chlorine, hasn't released weaponized plague...is he ordering mass rapes of sex slaves & posting it on the internet like ISIS?  Hyperbole from the pro-UKR crowd turns off more listeners than gains converts.  Putin is a murderous dictator for sure, and invading a sovereign country was wrong.  Let's get over that and analyze COAs pragmatically because many mistakes thus far have been interwoven with grandiose moralism detracting from objectivity.

I see zero evidence he wants a direct kinetic conflict with NATO.  If anything, he has been reserved given what our side is doing.  If RUS provided the Taliban major weapons systems, training right across the AFG border and live targeting the way we do... we'd have hit them directly.  We would never accept from them what they are currently accepting from us.  It's not from the goodness of his heart, it's because he's not strong enough to hit back or he knows he would lose a wider conflict or any number of reasons. But it shows a high degree of rational thought.

I'm unwilling to pay anymore for Ukraine's defense and I'm unwilling to pay for Ukraine's reconstruction. I voted for somebody who is doing those things; it sucks for Ukraine, but life is unfair and my priority is my own country.  Perhaps if UKR held elections or wasn't killing RUS civilians or hadn't blown the pipeline causing an environmental disaster I would entertain a conversation about "shared values" and "defending western norms" etc. but they're doing those things (admittedly in self-defense for a war they didn't start) so 🤷‍♂️

Edited February 16 by tac airlifter

[Lord Ratner]

55 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Perhaps if UKR held elections or wasn't killing RUS civilians or hadn't blown the pipeline causing an environmental disaster I would entertain a conversation about "shared values" and "defending western norms" etc. but they're doing those things (admittedly in self-defense for a war they didn't start) so 🤷‍♂️

All that talk about hyperbole then you throw this bullshit out. 😂🤣

 

No you wouldn't. Just admit that. It's a valid position, even if I disagree.

[tac airlifter]

30 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

All that talk about hyperbole then you throw this bullshit out. 😂🤣

 

No you wouldn't. Just admit that. It's a valid position, even if I disagree.

Sure I'd entertain a conversation.  You've seen me post here alot, I love entertaining conversations.  

[disgruntledemployee]

On 2/16/2025 at 6:59 AM, gearhog said:

Stop whining. You're behaving like someone's jaded ex-girlfriend keeping a list of all their grievances. Those are all verifiable statements of fact.

Just because you keep begging me to repeat myself doesn't mean I'm going to do it. You can't always get what you want.

However, I will give you some new and original thoughts for you to bitch about:

I can continue to write lengthy posts about what I think is right or correct. It doesn't matter now. There's a time for putting those ideas an opinions out in the public space to influence the planning process. It's over. It was over when Trump was elected. We're now in the implementation phase. Whatever your feelings and emotions are, they're worthless. You're going to have to live with whatever is decided for you.

It should be apparent by now is at least attempting to deliver on campaign promises. Ending the war in Ukraine was a big one. He's ego-driven and I think he's motivated to fulfill those promises not always because the orders/actions themselves are the right thing to do, but because he knows just doing what he said he was going to do garners him an enormous amount of credibility and support. Perhaps not from you, but ...shrug.

So, he said he was going to end it and he feels he must deliver on it. He mentions it in nearly every major press briefing. He also expresses regret for the "millions of soldiers" dying in the conflict. The problem here is he made a promise without conditions, and he seems to have taken direct military engagement off the table. This shifts the negotiating power-position somewhat toward Russia. Putin has made no promises and continues to demonstrate he'll fight it out on the battlefield indefinitely. Putin knows he can use this leverage to get Trump to make some concessions. Neither are going to capitulate fully. The most probable outcome is no NATO for Ukraine, Russia gets to keep Crimea and a significant portion of the land it fought over, and some easing of sanctions. We get to cease dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into this mess and get security guarantees from Russia that it won't invade Europe, pursue BRICs and other economic threats. Russia wasn't going to invade Europe anyway, but we can wave it around as if is a big win for us. Is it not reasonable to assume that Trump will continue the war without giving Russia a significant amount of its asks.

Happy? You're just gonna have to prepare yourself to transition from pissing and moaning about what I believe should happen to pissing and moaning about what has actually happened. It's out of our hands.

Stop quibbling and stop being a dick.  You clearly stated you are very smart, doing this posting stuff for way longer than little ol me, and like to say what you think is correct.  All your words, paraphrasing of course.

So I'll say what you can't/won't.

What I think is correct is that Putin withdraws all Russian forces from all invaded Ukrainian lands and Ukraine gives Russia back the lands it occupies; a sign a treaty.  Sanctions get lifted.  Both nations lick their wounds and try to heal.

----

If the ear wigs say this kind of thing enough, maybe Trump, /s the most experienced and most expert negotiator the world has ever seen, I mean he's like a god negotiator /s listens and does this sort of thing.  Surely he can because he's the best, right?  But he is not the only player on the table and pissing off Europe via Pete ain't helping, but Trump holds a military gear card and an economic sanctions card*.  Would the EU pitch in to play their own military gear cards if the US stops?  Is it in their best interest to do so?  Would Russia counter with cutting off EU gas/oil exports?  If they did, could they outlast the EU to winter with the economic impact, perhaps coupled with more sanctions*?  Point being, if the US stops helping Ukraine, can/would Europe try do it all by itself? 

I don't think Russia has the shift in leverage you think it has, especially if Trump stays cold stone.  He probably knows he wins better if Putins wins less, campaign promise or not.  If Putin gets to keep the lands, EVERYONE will believe Trump is weak and Putin walked all over him even if he thumps his chest and says, "look at me, I ended the war."  Trump has to game this 15 moves out, not 1 tweet at a time.  Can he?

* Sanctions.  We suck at sanctions.  If it's Russian, just take it.  No courts, no arbitration, just fucking take it.  Then tell Putin that we're funding the war effort with all his money, and making a profit.  DOGE that shit.  Where's "Big Balls?"

[CaptainMorgan]

I don't think Russia has the shift in leverage you think it has, especially if Trump stays cold stone.

Did somebody say Cold Stone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uhhello]

3 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Did somebody say Cold Stone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Birthday cake shakes baby!!!

[gearhog]

On 2/15/2025 at 7:12 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

...your bullshit personal attacks.

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Stop quibbling and stop being a dick. 

You really need to decide if your are for or against personal attacks. If you bitch about it then engage in name calling, it makes you looks like a hypocrite.

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

So I'll say what you can't/won't.

What I think is correct is that Putin withdraws all Russian forces from all invaded Ukrainian lands and Ukraine gives Russia back the lands it occupies; a sign a treaty.  Sanctions get lifted.  Both nations lick their wounds and try to heal.

You can wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills first. It doesn't matter what you think is correct. You really think Crimea is going back to Ukraine? Delusional.

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

If the ear wigs say this kind of thing enough, maybe Trump, /s the most experienced and most expert negotiator the world has ever seen, I mean he's like a god negotiator /s listens and does this sort of thing.  Surely he can because he's the best, right?  But he is not the only player on the table and pissing off Europe via Pete ain't helping, but Trump holds a military gear card and an economic sanctions card*.  Would the EU pitch in to play their own military gear cards if the US stops?  Is it in their best interest to do so?  Would Russia counter with cutting off EU gas/oil exports?  If they did, could they outlast the EU to winter with the economic impact, perhaps coupled with more sanctions*?  Point being, if the US stops helping Ukraine, can/would Europe try do it all by itself?

LOL You've gotta be drunk. Unintelligible. "Gear cards" and asterisks? You're just asking random pointless nonsense questions. Do you even have a point here?

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

I don't think Russia has the shift in leverage you think it has, especially if Trump stays cold stone.  He probably knows he wins better if Putins wins less, campaign promise or not.

You mean like Cold Stone Austin Steve? Did you intend to say "Trump wins more if Putin wins less?" You should read what you write before you click the submit reply button. Or at least edit your mistakes.

4 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

No courts, no arbitration, just fucking take it.  Then tell Putin that we're funding the war effort with all his money, and making a profit.  DOGE that shit.  Where's "Big Balls?"

I've seen these symptoms before. You might be having a Baseops meltdown.

[raimius]

Y'all need to actually address the topic rather than all this e-pen** measuring.

[M2]

2 minutes ago, raimius said:

Y'all need to actually address the topic rather than all this e-pen** measuring.

Agreed.  In fact, take this as an "official" Admin warning to KIO!

[ClearedHot]

As U.S. and Putin negotiate, intel shows he's not interested 'in a real peace deal,' sources say

Say it ain't so.

[BashiChuni]

of course he's not....he's winning

 

[brabus]

12 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

of course he's not....he's winning

 

He has to realize he has lost big time from a long term perspective (population make up, extremely diminished capacity for future power projection, etc.) He may be an evil POS, but he can’t be that stupid. He may have won some short term land gains and stopped NATO expansion on the border, but overall I don’t think it’ll have been worth the blood and treasure spent. If he recognizes this, he will negotiate, but we will have to give him something he can save face on (such as stating UKR will never be admitted to NATO, we’re not going back to pre-2014 borders, etc.) If we don’t the “forever war” continues, which only means more waste of resources and humanitarian crisis.

[gearhog]

If you’ve paid attention to the facts instead of your feelings, there have been signposts since the beginning indicating the direction this is headed. As I said, you can oppose the reality of what’s happening with fantasies of complete Russian withdrawal/collapse, but you’ll only be upset/embarrassed when it never happens.

The outcome is dictated by logic, not your notion of right/wrong.

[disgruntledemployee]

1 hour ago, gearhog said:

If you’ve paid attention to the facts instead of your feelings, there have been signposts since the beginning indicating the direction this is headed. As I said, you can oppose the reality of what’s happening with fantasies of complete Russian withdrawal/collapse, but you’ll only be upset/embarrassed when it never happens.

The outcome is dictated by logic, not your notion of right/wrong.

Facts like Ukraine is the source of one of his impeachments and Trump is never one to forgive, so he thinks Zelensky has it coming.

Facts like Trump has "appeared" to like Putin.

Look how he writes, "ending the War with Russia" as if Russia is the victim here.  And "MILLIONS" is hyperbole.

So many signs that he loves Putin.  I'm just wondering when the 3-way happens between Trump, Putin, and Musk.

EU still has plays and I can envision them going it alone to help Ukraine.  Hell, maybe Ukraine signs a deal for EU help with those natural resource leases vs Trump getting them.  I don't believe Trump can think 10 steps ahead chess style, he seems more like a modestly successful reality TV star.

[Guest nsplayr]

Imagine for a moment what Putin would want a U.S. President to do or say so that he could achieve victory in his brutal war against Ukraine. Would that hypothetical differ much from the “statement” you see from Trump above?

TBH when this war is eventually over and there’s the nice little Wikipedia page that shows the different sides, America is gonna show up on both sides. Allied with Ukraine 2022 - Jan 2025 and then allied with Russia Jan 2025 - X

 

Trump hates Zelensky because he refused to blackmail Biden in 2020, he loves Putin, and really really wants a Nobel Peace Prize that he will never get because Obama got one (stupidly). Those are his motivations. Putin is using that extremely fertile ground to achieve what he couldn’t on the battlefield despite years of trying, the forceful reunification of Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of domination.

Edited February 19 by nsplayr