UPT Next

[Arkbird]

21 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Still sim only for T-1s?


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Unfortunately. Air Force says they don't want to keep paying to maintain the T-1 and its engines. They're still going to keep a few AMP tails around for IP currency but they're still planning to make it go sim only soonish. 

[HuggyU2]

19 hours ago, Arkbird said:

Unfortunately. Air Force says they don't want to keep paying to maintain the T-1 and its engines. They're still going to keep a few AMP tails around for IP currency but they're still planning to make it go sim only soonish. 

Has anybody been fired or held accountable for this foolishness?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39945/the-air-force-spent-134m-to-repair-39-hail-damaged-t-1-jet-trainers-its-about-to-retire

For a jet worth under $1M.  Unsat.  

Edited July 26, 2023 by HuggyU2

[Arkbird]

21 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Has anybody been fired or held accountable for this foolishness?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/39945/the-air-force-spent-134m-to-repair-39-hail-damaged-t-1-jet-trainers-its-about-to-retire

For a jet worth under $1M.  Unsat.  

From what I've seen, the Air Force doesn't care what anyone at a UPT base has to say about training unless it saves them money. See UPT 2.5 and retiring the T-1 while still keeping OBOGS related T-6 tails flying after a hypoxia event.

[brwwg&b]

Any truth to rumint of near entire Vance T-6 fleet damage due to excessive winds from a storm last week?

[Arkbird]

9 hours ago, brwwg&b said:

Any truth to rumint of near entire Vance T-6 fleet damage due to excessive winds from a storm last week?

I'm at CBM so unfortunately all I've heard is rumint as well. 

[Clark Griswold]

Unfortunately. Air Force says they don't want to keep paying to maintain the T-1 and its engines. They're still going to keep a few AMP tails around for IP currency but they're still planning to make it go sim only soonish. 

Not sure what the per student cost would be for a T-1 sim only syllabus would be but probably 6.9 times more than just running them thru a multi engine course at a Flight School and then sending to go thru a type course on a transport category aircraft


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[hindsight2020]

latest rumint from the SophistryNEXT! idea factory: Buffs to get axed off FBF and into MAF-Next sim-only land with the rest of the (former)T-1 track.....but not B-1 and B-2s. OOoof, talk about weirdness at the 11B dinner table over on the holidays. 

That community is the unironic embodiment of the Rime of the Ancient mariner.

Meanwhile the (legacy) IFF mafia:

😄 

[Clark Griswold]

latest rumint from the SophistryNEXT! idea factory: Buffs to get axed off FBF and into MAF-Next sim-only land with the rest of the (former)T-1 track.....but not B-1 and B-2s. OOoof, talk about weirdness at the 11B dinner table over on the holidays. 
That community is the unironic embodiment of the Rime of the Ancient mariner.
Meanwhile the (legacy) IFF mafia:

 

Super! You’ll (B-52 bound studs) have lots to talk about


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[dream big]

If Gunships come from the T-1 track why couldn’t Buffs? It’s not like you learn weapons employment in the 38. Is the 38 really going to make or break an inbound Buff pilot? Honestly curious!

[Clark Griswold]

2 hours ago, dream big said:

If Gunships come from the T-1 track why couldn’t Buffs? It’s not like you learn weapons employment in the 38. Is the 38 really going to make or break an inbound Buff pilot? Honestly curious!

Nothing, this is just the psychology of high school cliques at work here and if it's not a fighter but has some cool factor to it let's let only our tribe have it.  #not-a-bit-cynical 

[hindsight2020]

4 hours ago, dream big said:

If Gunships come from the T-1 track why couldn’t Buffs? It’s not like you learn weapons employment in the 38. Is the 38 really going to make or break an inbound Buff pilot? Honestly curious!

That wasn't the point in contention, I stipulate 38s aren't needed to drive that antiquated pos. Furthermore, Buffs have dropped from T-1 track in the past. It was more about the second tier effects within the 11B cohort, specifically carving out the B1/2 guys.

 

1 hour ago, Clark Griswold said:

Nothing, this is just the psychology of high school cliques at work here and if it's not a fighter but has some cool factor to it let's let only our tribe have it.  #not-a-bit-cynical 

A bit tribal knee-jerk for someone complaining about tribalism, from where I sit. Lighten up, it's just a meme. Not everything is a conspiracy theory against herbies.

Furthermore, the reason for the buff being in 38s historically had nothing to do with your perceived grievance. I got 1000 hours snoring in that contraption (when not sitting red ball for a whole duty day with engines running), cool factor is not a word I'd ever use to describe anything related to that thing.

See the irony behind your indignation, is that you presume buffs would drop top of the stack in the MAF track. That shows you really have been removed from the UPT enterprise for a long time. These kids are smart, and they ask questions, it's not an unknown to them.

As to the second piece, again the irony is a gunship driver has less tactical degrees of separation from actual weapons employment and combat SA picture than a Buff guy. That may not be as well known to the Toner types, but all they have to do is ask someone without an inferiority complex about that.

And since we can't have fun we might as well go for the punchline: none of it is gonna make a lick of a dent in the pilot production deficit. The 11B sideshow is just that, an immaterial round-off error in the context of total yearly production, especially given the carve out of the majority of the 11B in the first place. 

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

A bit tribal knee-jerk for someone complaining about tribalism, from where I sit. Lighten up, it's just a meme. Not everything is a conspiracy theory against herbies.

Furthermore, the reason for the buff being in 38s historically had nothing to do with your perceived grievance. I got 1000 hours snoring in that contraption (when not sitting red ball for a whole duty day with engines running), cool factor is not a word I'd ever use to describe anything related to that thing.

See the irony behind your indignation, is that you presume buffs would drop top of the stack in the MAF track. That shows you really have been removed from the UPT enterprise for a long time. These kids are smart, and they ask questions, it's not an unknown to them.

As to the second piece, again the irony is a gunship driver has less tactical degrees of separation from actual weapons employment and combat SA picture than a Buff guy. That may not be as well known to the Toner types, but all they have to do is ask someone without an inferiority complex about that.

And since we can't have fun we might as well go for the punchline: none of it is gonna make a lick of a dent in the pilot production deficit. The 11B sideshow is just that, an immaterial round-off error in the context of total yearly production, especially given the carve out of the majority of the 11B in the first place. 

Not saying anything negative against the B-52s and I would agree with your take that the BUFF would or will not be a top pick from the crew tracked.

I don't think it's a conspiracy against herbies but an open policy decision, these guys get a flight hours and these guys get an Atari level simulator.  No conspiracy but an explicit policy choice.

Not a butt hurt herbivore here but one who thinks not standing up for our communities and those who are going to follow us is a not a good idea nor the right thing.

I'll agree to disagree.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Clark Griswold
grammar

[ToHoldShort]

On 7/26/2023 at 9:32 AM, brwwg&b said:

Any truth to rumint of near entire Vance T-6 fleet damage due to excessive winds from a storm last week?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/07/27/thunderstorm-damage-to-vances-t-6-fleet-will-slow-pilot-training/?fbclid=IwAR3p2weSy8USjk0LiL3rJ-5Yv4g0lTF2NZfyyNxZNbcmfuJdhbuszbs7PO0_aem_ARmf9hQmNx3X6NXMvdJiL7VESkuYzZhTK58fVLLTAO_0nskE6mxgAOZlUJABjyb6Sl0
 

Not sure the full extent. Hopefully not as bad as the T-1 hailstorm.  But some jets are in bad shape

[HossHarris]

45 minutes ago, ToHoldShort said:

But some jets are in bad shape

T6’s aren’t jets. 

[hindsight2020]

22 minutes ago, ToHoldShort said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/07/27/thunderstorm-damage-to-vances-t-6-fleet-will-slow-pilot-training/?fbclid=IwAR3p2weSy8USjk0LiL3rJ-5Yv4g0lTF2NZfyyNxZNbcmfuJdhbuszbs7PO0_aem_ARmf9hQmNx3X6NXMvdJiL7VESkuYzZhTK58fVLLTAO_0nskE6mxgAOZlUJABjyb6Sl0
 

Not sure the full extent. Hopefully not as bad as the T-1 hailstorm.  But some jets are in bad shape

1/3 is the figure I've heard from the Bronipernet. Not as bas as XL hailmaggedon. In fairness, XL's boo boo was Toner centric, T-6s went completele unscathed... T-38s got out of dodge, I was one of those wethevacs. KELP was hopping that week. 😄

At any rate, I'm told they're returning jets to line on an inspection basis, no clue how those inspections are going at the moment. We know prop strike (ground) and control surface replacement for the more affected tails are the big ones. Some collisions between tails, and collisions against lighting infrastructure. Good times.

Wasn't hail-centric, it was wind. Broke tie chains. 

Not at VN, but rumint is big pow wow rn regarding wx and mx arguing the one didn't tell the other. Blame game in full swing.  That's all I got atm, now back to farming Ukrainian naval drone footage to edgelord the Russo-sycophants on the t-gram. Stay safe kids and don't make fun of a certain NAF on the insta, or ya get an article. yee yee!

 

 

[Danger41]

1 hour ago, HossHarris said:

T6’s aren’t jets. 

This statement brought up a funny story for me recently...

No shit, there I was a punk ass ENJJPT student back in the day when we had just switched from the Tweet to the T-6. Everybody referred to the T-6 as "the jet" and the biggest douche I've ever met as an IP (Dutch guy) would go out of his way to make the point that the T-6 wasn't a jet. He even always had the wikipedia page pulled up where he would contribute "not a jet" on the bottom of the page. Everyone that flew with him (including me) had a God awful sortie and got absolutely abused the entire sortie. I even had to no shit do an ICE-T calculation on a whiz wheel during an instrument eval with this guy.

ANYHOW, I recently stopped at Sheppard recently as an O-5, DO, Weapons School Instructor and this fucking guy is back but now flying the T-38. It shook me. I was immediately transformed back into a scared B flight student trying to remember the pattern references. I felt exactly like Sara Connor in Terminator 2 when she's breaking out of the mental institution and Arnold comes around the corner. Truly one of the most jarring moments in my career because it was sooooooo unexpected. Or maybe I'm just a pussy. 

[Danger41]

For the FBF stuff, are they going beyond the "Heat to Guns" exercise and doing actual rate/radius fight mechanics with perch set ups or what? We did heat to guns during the UPT syllabus at EN but I remember the other base guys did those as part of IFF. I know EN still does that and has plenty of non-fighter IP's teaching it. FBF going to include range ops?

[slc]

7 hours ago, Danger41 said:

This statement brought up a funny story for me recently...

No shit, there I was a punk ass ENJJPT student back in the day when we had just switched from the Tweet to the T-6. Everybody referred to the T-6 as "the jet" and the biggest douche I've ever met as an IP (Dutch guy) would go out of his way to make the point that the T-6 wasn't a jet. He even always had the wikipedia page pulled up where he would contribute "not a jet" on the bottom of the page. Everyone that flew with him (including me) had a God awful sortie and got absolutely abused the entire sortie. I even had to no shit do an ICE-T calculation on a whiz wheel during an instrument eval with this guy.

ANYHOW, I recently stopped at Sheppard recently as an O-5, DO, Weapons School Instructor and this fucking guy is back but now flying the T-38. It shook me. I was immediately transformed back into a scared B flight student trying to remember the pattern references. I felt exactly like Sara Connor in Terminator 2 when she's breaking out of the mental institution and Arnold comes around the corner. Truly one of the most jarring moments in my career because it was sooooooo unexpected. Or maybe I'm just a pussy. 

Gotta wonder if he's still a douche....cause you know, once a douche, always a douche....

[Air_Space]

8 hours ago, Danger41 said:

For the FBF stuff, are they going beyond the "Heat to Guns" exercise and doing actual rate/radius fight mechanics with perch set ups or what? We did heat to guns during the UPT syllabus at EN but I remember the other base guys did those as part of IFF. I know EN still does that and has plenty of non-fighter IP's teaching it. FBF going to include range ops?

It's all very much TBD but in its current form it'll include everything IFF currently teaches with the SGTO instructors going to IFF if they haven't yet (FAIPs and bomber guys). They are talking about a split LOX which makes sense, so an experienced fighter IP coming to UPT would teach the normal UPT stuff as well as the advanced stuff whereas a FAIP would just teach the normal UPT stuff till maybe they were experienced and got the upgrade. Again a lot of talk right now but that's where we are at. 

[Shakermaker]

12 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

Not at VN, but rumint is big pow wow rn regarding wx and mx arguing the one didn't tell the other. Blame game in full swing.  

 

 

Standing in ground zero at VN, that is absolutely not happening.  

[WheelsOff]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:57 PM, hindsight2020 said:

Stay safe kids and don't make fun of a certain NAF on the insta, or ya get an article. yee yee!

Said individual finally retired (good riddance btw). Is his replacement carrying on his tradition of butt-hurtness now too?
 

These “leaders” in that NAF make horrible decisions and have such thin skin about it…grow a pair and own it!

So glad I’m out!

[hindsight2020]

39 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

Said individual finally retired (good riddance btw). Is his replacement carrying on his tradition of butt-hurtness now too?
 

These “leaders” in that NAF make horrible decisions and have such thin skin about it…grow a pair and own it!

So glad I’m out!

The replacement was looking promising (granted, a low bar from you know who), and just like that got sacked in zero time flat. We're currently training the second replacement. No PIREPs yet.

Edited July 29, 2023 by hindsight2020

[tac airlifter]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:15 PM, Danger41 said:

I even had to no shit do an ICE-T calculation on a whiz wheel during an instrument eval with this guy.

[Pooter]

@Danger41 
Not to split hairs here but the t-6 is a jet. Quite literally. It has a jet engine in it that has no mechanical linkage to the prop, and it even has exhaust stacks that make a small but non-zero amount of thrust. 

So stop being afraid of your douche canoe enjjpt IP and tell him to open the dash 1, learn his systems, and maybe just eat a whole dick. 

[HossHarris]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

@Danger41 
Not to split hairs here but the t-6 is a jet. Quite literally. It has a jet engine in it that has no mechanical linkage to the prop, and it even has exhaust stacks that make a small but non-zero amount of thrust. 

So stop being afraid of your douche canoe enjjpt IP and tell him to open the dash 1, learn his systems, and maybe just eat a whole dick. 

Nah. Turboprop. Not a jet.