lufty Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). I know a guy who retired as a MSGT, a few years before he got out, worked on his rating with the GI bill, did flight instructing and 5yrs later he’s at the airlines via the regionals route.Set a goal and go for it. You need to start now though to log hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 14 hours ago, lufty said: Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). Doesn't some FE time count towards the ATP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sua Sponte Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, lufty said: Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). Friend of mine is a reserve boom (-135s now -46) and flies for a regional as a pilot. It was a ton of money and hard work, but he loves it. Edited September 8, 2021 by Sua Sponte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lufty Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 1 hour ago, di1630 said: I know a guy who retired as a MSGT, a few years before he got out, worked on his rating with the GI bill, did flight instructing and 5yrs later he’s at the airlines via the regionals route. Set a goal and go for it. You need to start now though to log hours. Nice, my kids get my GI Bill so I'd be swallowing the entire pill. 1 hour ago, ItnStln said: Doesn't some FE time count towards the ATP? Not sure, I'm not seeing that. I see there is a restricted ATP that allows you to get the rating with less hours if you've med certain education requirements, but degree is in basket weaving and of course the CCAF in Aviation Operations doesn't make the list. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 16 hours ago, lufty said: Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). As mentioned, if you still have some GI Bill, it will pay for a significant portion of your training. Unless things have changed, you should be able to count 500 hours of your FE time towards your ATP; that means you'd need a 1000 hours to get picked up at a regional. Piedmont, Envoy, and PSA all just got big bonuses tacked onto their contract. They also have a flow through agreement with American. Plan on it taking 2-3 years before you feel like you're making progress, but it will happen. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Super realistic. And if you enjoy flying, then easy also. It will go faster than you think and whatever the GI bill doesn’t cover for you, you won’t regret paying off later because you are doing what you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Did not know that about FE time. That's awesome. I know some FEs I work with that will be interested to hear that. Is that because historically FEs were second officers in the airlines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDiggler Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 17 hours ago, lufty said: Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours. I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh). My community had a SMSgt FE retire about 3-4 years ago; he had his Private/Instrument rating complete when he punched. He knocked out his Commercial/CFI/CFII/MEI fairly quickly, instructed for a little bit, and is now flying for PSA I believe. BLUF is it's definitely doable. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 45 minutes ago, FLEA said: Did not know that about FE time. That's awesome. I know some FEs I work with that will be interested to hear that. Is that because historically FEs were second officers in the airlines? My suspicion is that's where it stemmed from. I don't think it was that long ago that new hires at FedEx started out on the panel for the 727/DC-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 I know several guys/girls who did this with success. Your plan is definitely reasonable. Even if you pay 100% out of pocket you will make it up and a lot more in the future. You might also consider a sim instructor job for the majors. I know a pile of current/former reserve/guard FEs doing that route. United has a bunch, and Southwest is desperate for sim instructors right now depending on your timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 A few years back, I had a 60yo in the jumpseat, commuting to training at a regional. While she had hours flying in her youthier days, this was her 1st Part 121 job. Hired at 60! So, two years to go, start now. Private thru Instrument, CFI by retirement is very doable time wise. Then what DirkD said... 1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said: .... He knocked out his Commercial/CFI/CFII/MEI fairly quickly, instructed for a little bit, and is now flying for PSA I believe. BLUF is it's definitely doable. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItnStln Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 3 hours ago, lufty said: Not sure, I'm not seeing that. I see there is a restricted ATP that allows you to get the rating with less hours if you've med certain education requirements, but degree is in basket weaving and of course the CCAF in Aviation Operations doesn't make the list. 🙄 I thought I read that somewhere, hopefully I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Use your GI Bill for yourself and get your ratings. Have your kids join the ANG and get TA and their own GI Bill. Good luck! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirGuardianC141747 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) As a pilot I had 2 former FE’s in the military flying C-141s with me ( maybe I with them) and one transitioned to LM on C-17s as I did. Both were FE’s on the 747 Classic at Atlas before I arrived. Both of them used 500 hrs towards their ATP and used the companies FE to pilot program allowing them to be 747-400 typed once they had all their ratings and no interview as company employees. They both are Captains senior to me now (one is a Line Check Airman), imagine that. I make them buy dinner as they owe me now during our military times - great guys. There are still a few 747 classic outfits out there which have FE’s of course; thereby employing you on a known quantity while flying on the side. I wouldn’t recommend this, it was just an example of many FE’s up front now. Better to use the route mentioned by others, it is very good info. Edited September 10, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Any southwest guys hear any hiring window rumors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lufty Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Thanks gents, encouraging to hear, the dream is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Stiglitz Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) On 9/10/2021 at 6:28 AM, di1630 said: Any southwest guys hear any hiring window rumors? I’ve heard (but can’t verify) a new round of invites are going out from the previous window. Still doing 2x30-member classes in Dec, beyond that they’re either being tight lipped or don’t know, and that’s coming from a buddy on the hiring team. We do know they have ~250 of the final pilots out on the extended leave to bring back in Jan/Feb plus they’re trying to correct an imbalance by upgrading FOs, so wouldn’t be shocked if there are small (or no) numbers of new hires those months. Then by March it should be on like kong…so if all that guessing is right then I’d spitball the next window would maybe be in Nov. One thing that’s abundantly clear is they’re way understaffed currently for the schedules they want to run, so it’s a good bet there’ll be movement sooner than later! Edited September 12, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryder1587 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said: I’ve heard (but can’t verify) a new round of invites are going out from the previous window. Still doing 2x30-member classes in Dec, beyond that they’re either being tight lipped or don’t know, and that’s coming from a buddy on the hiring team. We do know they have ~250 of the final pilots out on the extended leave to bring back in Jan/Feb plus they’re trying to correct an imbalance by upgrading FOs, so wouldn’t be shocked if there are small (or no) numbers of new hires those months. Then by March it should be on like kong…so if all that guessing is right then I’d spitball the next window would maybe be in Nov. One thing that’s abundantly clear is they’re way understaffed currently for the schedules they want to run, so it’s a good bet there’ll be movement sooner than later! Will they use the last window to continue to send invites out until March or will they close it completely once they get the 120 and you have to reapply ? Is this the last round to go out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Stiglitz Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 18 hours ago, Ryder1587 said: Will they use the last window to continue to send invites out until March or will they close it completely once they get the 120 and you have to reapply ? Is this the last round to go out ? I’m not 100% on their process, but to answer your question they’ll likely do a new window for the post-Dec classes. That won’t change anything on Pilot Credentials, but you’d have to do a new app on ICIMS or whatever that Southwest Careers page is called. I think it saves your previous app, so shouldn’t have to start from scratch at least. From what I can tell, whenever they open a window they’re targeting specific availability dates based on the classes they already have planned. As they expand classes or don’t offer enough CJOs or have people decline CJOs they might dip back into that pool of applicants to do another round of interviews, but when they announce more classes for later in the year there’ll be a new window since the previous one might have excluded people whose availability was a little later. FWIW when I got hired in 2017 there was just one big window and classes every month. The company says that’s their plan for 2022…I sure hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirGuardianC141747 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Not the “Leading Industry Contract” by any means, but it has some merit. Definitely could have been better in many areas, but some goodness to it as well. Maybe next time, bit by bit I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirGuardianC141747 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Before it’s asked: DOS is Date Of Signing. Most likely Oct we think… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkbum Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Before it’s asked: DOS is Date Of Signing. Most likely Oct we think…Should have been effective immediately Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirGuardianC141747 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) On 9/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, herkbum said: Should have been effective immediately Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app You are Correct - True at normal places. Lots of Woulda, shoulda, coulda in aviation: Thru lawyers, company delays and other run arounds, welcome to ACMI and this was done previously as well (10 yrs ago sadly) estimation still Oct. We’ll see… 73 weren’t flying much but have started to ramp up. We’re seeing 73 Capt upgrades at less than a yr mark due to demand/shortages. Hiring and hemorrhaging as normal but this pay increase ranges on 20-35% or more depending on where you sit, some considerably higher than 50% if able to upgrade from the lower platform and 10% was given last year. Still not on par with many, as soft pay is where many differences lie and succeed. 4th week of vacation added, but not until 12th year. No wins in scope or long term disability. Hoped for home basing (no-go) and some other Cheddar, but it was minimal. As always will will hook’m, Clean’m and fry’m faster than anyone for their next gig - at least we’re #1 at something Edited September 21, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkbum Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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