Jump to content
Baseops Forums
Guest oliwoody

Track Selects and Assignment Nights

Recommended Posts

On 7/24/2020 at 4:59 PM, Ch33s3 said:

CAFB 20-20/21

T-6 Laughlin 

 

Oh boy. Here we go again...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Air_Space said:

PTN v3 

 

T-45 x3 (USN)

So what you’re saying is the Navy realizes VR isn’t a replacement for stick time in a jet, especially when you’re going to jets that have no family models. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Hawg15 said:

So what you’re saying is the Navy realizes VR isn’t a replacement for stick time in a jet, especially when you’re going to jets that have no family models. 

Is there any word on how studs from the first two classes are doing? Either in the schoolhouse or after? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

Is there any word on how studs from the first two classes are doing? Either in the schoolhouse or after? 

One of the graduates from the first class is already back from a 6 month CENTCOM deployment in the F-35. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there any word on how studs from the first two classes are doing? Either in the schoolhouse or after? 

No notable difference between the students who flew ~100 hrs in T-38’s normal UPT track and the guy who only flew T-6’s a few hours and his second solo was in a fighter.

Regardless of track, they are all equally bad but will be fine with some experience.

UPT next guys are NOT the weakest students going to CAF squadrons.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, di1630 said:


No notable difference between the students who flew ~100 hrs in T-38’s normal UPT track and the guy who only flew T-6’s a few hours and his second solo was in a fighter.

Regardless of track, they are all equally bad but will be fine with some experience.

UPT next guys are NOT the weakest students going to CAF squadrons.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

 

8 hours ago, Ant-man said:

One of the graduates from the first class is already back from a 6 month CENTCOM deployment in the F-35. 

The problem with those studs is they were hand picked to go there because they were already a level above their peers, and this program wouldn’t fail even if they were trash.
 

The washout rate in our B course classes has been rising over the last couple years from the general population of all this change and reduced experience. They won’t all be fine, the number of students who can’t make it through PIQ is on the rise. We’ve had multiple cycles with washouts this year, which is not standard. Basic fighter admin is what drove most of it. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hawg15 said:

 

We’ve had multiple cycles with washouts this year, which is not standard. Basic fighter admin is what drove most of it. 

That is so odd to me. How did these students do in IFF? That admin part for me was the easiest transition to the B course because it was nearly identical. Admittedly that was in the Eagle and not the A-10 but I can’t imagine it’s too terribly different. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem with those studs is they were hand picked to go there because they were already a level above their peers, and this program wouldn’t fail even if they were trash.
 
The washout rate in our B course classes has been rising over the last couple years from the general population of all this change and reduced experience. They won’t all be fine, the number of students who can’t make it through PIQ is on the rise. We’ve had multiple cycles with washouts this year, which is not standard. Basic fighter admin is what drove most of it. 

Any chance for an example of the admin? Range/munitions delivery or just safety of flight to/from the ranges?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

That is so odd to me. How did these students do in IFF? That admin part for me was the easiest transition to the B course because it was nearly identical. Admittedly that was in the Eagle and not the A-10 but I can’t imagine it’s too terribly different. 

47 minutes ago, di1630 said:


Any chance for an example of the admin? Range/munitions delivery or just safety of flight to/from the ranges?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

They did okay, but IFF isn’t the filter that it was back in the day, which is good and bad. It’s not just a pointless haze, and it’s also not easy to remove students from training in general. I’ve heard from some guys who instructed there that they are already spending extra time working on tac form for many of the students.  

The problem with many of these students is they don’t have the repetitions of flights that hammer home and make purely flying second nature, which is what ultimately drives many of the problems on follow on trainings. We have students that can’t fly straight and level without it taking all their SA, releasing without clearance, not fencing out when directed, not maintaining SA on friendlies and flight members, almost overrunning a 13,500ft runway and taking out another jet because for some reason they are 90kts at the 1 board, unable to safely hold while correlating a target, flying off the HUD in safe escapes at night and ending up inverted almost into the ground, among many other issues. There has been some extremely close calls to losing jets and lives.

We can’t have pilots that are constantly fighting the jet in a B-course level training, which as far as the hawg is concerned teaches the most basic form of employing the jet with mostly link assisted digital-defensive data flow (aka the students are only expected to provide vis lookout while updating their targets off my SPI, they are not allowed to be copying info most of the time while in B-course). Pilots definitely can’t be struggling to fly straight and level while writing 9-lines, plotting in the system, correlating targets, monitoring 4 freqs, maintaining friendly SA in relation to weapons effects, getting to weapons release parameters, and not hitting me, etc... Then add the low altitude environment where we are doing that at 100-300 agl.  The AF is somewhat neglecting that fundamentals matter before adding on more advanced, SA draining tasks. 

Edited by Hawg15
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Hawg15 said:

IFF isn’t the filter that it was back in the day

What's sad is that UPT used to be a filter in and of itself.  It was a mistake to push that responsibility off on IFF so that UPT Wing Commanders could get themselves promoted based on their percentage of successful student graduation.

Thus IFF became both a choke point and a single point of failure...and it sounds like IFF has succumbed to a similar cancer as UPT.

Someone has to hold the line at some point.  If they don't, then we're going to have smoking holes and flag-draped caskets.

Oh, surprise, surprise.

Edited by Hacker
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, vipermaverickk said:

Do you know if this was Guard or TFI?

Straight out of UPT? Has to be Guard. Unless they moved the B course there...wouldn't that be something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, vipermaverickk said:

Do you know if this was Guard or TFI?

Guard. Active duty assignments are given out during the B-course. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2020 at 9:57 AM, Ant-man said:

One of the graduates from the first class is already back from a 6 month CENTCOM deployment in the F-35. 

Big whoop. I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

Big whoop. I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. 

Lol so the guy graduating the course, graduating the B course, finishing MQT, and completing a combat deployment doesn’t pass your standard? Wtf does?!

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Lol so the guy graduating the course, graduating the B course, finishing MQT, and completing a combat deployment doesn’t pass your standard? Wtf does?!

I just googled “fuckin new guy” to find some funny meme to post. Low SA...wish I could take that search back. 

 

Edited by brabus
  • Like 2
  • Haha 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just googled “in new guy” to find some funny meme to post. Low SA...wish I could take that search back. 
 


IMG_9627.JPG
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Lol so the guy graduating the course, graduating the B course, finishing MQT, and completing a combat deployment doesn’t pass your standard? Wtf does?!

Sarcasm detector inop?
 

Though, my cynicism is rooted in the fact that all the people who went through the initial PTN program were well above average performers to begin with, who were cherry-picked specifically for that program. It was a “no-fail” program from the beginning, so of course the AF is gonna be quick to publicly tout its success and use it as a justification for further reducing sorties in UPT (UPT 2.5, anyone?). Just another excuse for the AF to cut corners trying to fast track its “leadership creation” problem.

In all seriousness, good on this particular guy/gal. Not saying it isn’t a small feat, because it definitely isn’t. Any one of us who’s done it before knows this. 

If we weren’t talking about PTN/VR then my bad, I’ll go back to drinking my stale coffee, eating my Raisin Bran and getting on to the snacko for not keeping the snack bar stocked.

Old guy rant over, back on topic.....

Edited by WheelsOff
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sarcasm detector inop?
 
Though, my cynicism is rooted in the fact that all the people who went through the initial PTN program were well above average performers to begin with, who were cherry-picked specifically for that program.


Imagine if you will, a place where the Air Force could groom top quality pilot candidates, educate them on flight maybe in their late teens/early 20’s....get America’s best by offering a free 4 yr education. We could call it, maybe an “Academy” or something.

Seriously, I’ve railed on this before. Why isn’t our academy and flight screening getting us people who can kick ass?

I’ve had academy grads (and ROTC) teaching at UPT I’d gladly trade for the high school educated quarterback at my B-8 football school because that guy working at the local grain elevator had more leadership and pilot potential than the band-geek-chess-club Academy grad.

Part of the problem is we aren’t getting America’s best through our commissioning sources.




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quoted for truth.



I’ve had academy grads (and ROTC) teaching at UPT I’d gladly trade for the high school educated quarterback at my B-8 football school because that guy working at the local grain elevator had more leadership and pilot potential than the band-geek-chess-club Academy grad.



Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, di1630 said:

 


Imagine if you will, a place where the Air Force could groom top quality pilot candidates, educate them on flight maybe in their late teens/early 20’s....get America’s best by offering a free 4 yr education. We could call it, maybe an “Academy” or something.

Seriously, I’ve railed on this before. Why isn’t our academy and flight screening getting us people who can kick ass?

I’ve had academy grads (and ROTC) teaching at UPT I’d gladly trade for the high school educated quarterback at my B-8 football school because that guy working at the local grain elevator had more leadership and pilot potential than the band-geek-chess-club Academy grad.

Part of the problem is we aren’t getting America’s best through our commissioning sources.




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

 

Two reasons:

1- The academy has prioritized social justice initiatives such as racial/gender diversity, feelings and wokeness over actually building intellectual warriors capable of leading this Air Force.  Any grad knows exactly what I’m talking about.  Heck, you’re not even allowed to make a freshman do more than 6-9 pushups and recognition is a thing of the past.  

2- Not properly pushing the value of being a Pilot.  Now I believe they have realized their mistake but a few years ago; they did everything that they could to prop up the RPA and cyber career fields.  I heard permanent party would actively discount being a Pilot and as a result, they have had trouble even filling every pilot slot.  

The academy has so much potential but it has been ridden with shoe clerks and social justice warriors.  Now, imagine if the academy used the full potential of its flying programs.  You could essentially have more effective UPT students in PTN/2.5 whatever they are calling it as some of the airmanship required of an Air Force Pilot could already be instilled. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CBM 20-22/23

c-17 charlotte x2

c-130j little rock

c-146 duke

c-130j dyess

f-15 SJ

f-16 x3

a-10 DM

t-6 cbm x2

c-17 travis

c-17 charleston

f-15 kingsley

t-38 cbm

f-22 tyndall 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...