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What rank do their maintenance, logistics, intel, sf etc officers top out at?


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Captain unless they are actively pursuing “leadership” roles. But they have far fewer non-flying officers.

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Nah, they’ll just further obfuscate who’s in the top 10% like they’ve done by not identifying school selects at the O-4 board. The longer the machine can make people think they’re in the top tier the longer people will try to be in the top tier.


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Ditch the rank...Capt is where you top out...but make flight pay compensate for the extra pay normally associated with rank. The Canucks do it and it works pretty darn good for them.


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They do this similarly on the E side as well. A 30 year SSgt is a master at blocking the BS.

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Hey guys, I'm currently enlisted AF. I'm finishing up my bachelors now. My question is, is it even worth it becoming a AF pilot or should I go another branch? With everything posted on this thread it seems as if going active duty AF pilot is not the way to go. I know there's Guard/Reserves, but i want to stay active duty. I am very interested in Naval Aviation, I'm open to both Navy and Marines. I have a wife and a kid, and my contract is up in February 2020 and I'm only 23; so i have a lot of big decisions to make. I really want to continue to serve especially as a Military pilot, but it seems that being an Air force pilot is not so hot right now. Any of you guys have some advice on the matter? Air force pilot vs Naval Aviator? And if you could do it all over again would you go to a different branch? 

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And if you could do it all over again would you go to a different branch? 

Hell no, I would do it again tomorrow. There’s a lot of sport bitching from mid-career types like me, not in small part because the AF trained us to do a job that pays very well to do a quarter of the work on the outside.

I wouldn’t trade having been an Air Force pilot for anything.

Now if landing on boats is your thing and you feel compelled to do Naval aviation, have at it Hoss. But I’m willing to bet a few beers that the grass is no greener on that side either.
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Hey guys, I'm currently enlisted AF. I'm finishing up my bachelors now. My question is, is it even worth it becoming a AF pilot or should I go another branch? With everything posted on this thread it seems as if going active duty AF pilot is not the way to go. I know there's Guard/Reserves, but i want to stay active duty. I am very interested in Naval Aviation, I'm open to both Navy and Marines. I have a wife and a kid, and my contract is up in February 2020 and I'm only 23; so i have a lot of big decisions to make. I really want to continue to serve especially as a Military pilot, but it seems that being an Air force pilot is not so hot right now. Any of you guys have some advice on the matter? Air force pilot vs Naval Aviator? And if you could do it all over again would you go to a different branch? 

If you want to be a career pilot, and ANG and the Reserves aren’t for you, than AD AF is probably your best bet. That said, why do you not want to pursue an ANG or Reserves career? Full time, either AGR or ART is an option.


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If you're going to fly, stay AF.  The aviation grass isn't greener in other services.  Except maybe CG, but they have their own issues.

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6 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


If you want to be a career pilot, and ANG and the Reserves aren’t for you, than AD AF is probably your best bet. That said, why do you not want to pursue an ANG or Reserves career? Full time, either AGR or ART is an option.


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Thanks for the reply! I have thought about the gaurd and reserve. However, my family and I don’t really like the uncertainty that the gaurd/reserve can bring. I like the all or nothing aspect that active duty gives. Plus I’m a F-15 crew chief by trade, so with that being said I want to fly fighters. I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

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23 minutes ago, Tyking said:

my family and I don’t really like the uncertainty that the gaurd/reserve can bring. I like the all or nothing aspect that active duty gives. 

Someone has not been paying attention.

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26 minutes ago, Tyking said:

Thanks for the reply! I have thought about the gaurd and reserve. However, my family and I don’t really like the uncertainty that the gaurd/reserve can bring. I like the all or nothing aspect that active duty gives. Plus I’m a F-15 crew chief by trade, so with that being said I want to fly fighters. I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

Can you elaborate on this uncertainty?

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Just now, Sprkt69 said:

Can you elaborate on this uncertainty?

We’ll from my understanding is, after upt and doing you assigned aircraft training before heading back to your unit; you are given a certain amount of active duty orders from your perspective guard/reserve unit for seasoning. Then after that it’s up in the air if you can stay on those orders or have to find a full time job. For me I want my job to be a pilot and and officer full time. I don’t want to have to find another job while in the Air Force. Now Obviously there is a lot of uncertainty with active duty, I know I’m active duty, however I don’t have to worry about having to get another job, I can just do what the Air Force has trained me for, plus all the other additional duties they give me but it comes with the territory and I’m fine with that.

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1 hour ago, Tyking said:

 Then after that it’s up in the air if you can stay on those orders or have to find a full time job.

This is highly situation dependent.  First, it is possible to interview with a Guard unit and stipulate that you're looking for a full-time position.  If they don't have one available, then you opt to go elsewhere.  If they want you badly enough, they may do some horse trading.  Second, considering the airlines are scooping up just about every able-bodied military pilot they can get their hands on, the competition for full-time positions in the Guard may not be the feeding frenzy you think it is.

Of course, YMMV depending on the units you're rushing, their manning and a myriad of other factors.  But, I wouldn't just assume that locking in a full-time spot is out of the question. 

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2 minutes ago, JeremiahWeed said:

This is highly situation dependent.  First, it is possible to interview with a Guard unit and stipulate that you're looking for a full-time position.  If they don't have one available, then you opt to go elsewhere.  If they want you badly enough, they may do some horse trading.  Second, considering the airlines are scooping up just about every able-bodied military pilot they can get their hands on, the competition for full-time positions in the Guard may not be the feeding frenzy you think it is.

Of course, YMMV depending on the units you're rushing, their manning and a myriad of other factors.  But, I wouldn't just assume that locking in a full-time spot is out of the question. 

Yea, I’ll definitely look into the guard/reserves more. If I could find a unit that guarantees me a full time position; that would be ideal, since my family and I wouldn’t have to move around a bunch. However, I am leaning towards active duty a bit more.

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Tyking, don’t take the sport bitching on this thread as an absolute measure of what being an Air Force pilot is like. It really is the best damned job in the world, we’re just all pissed because a handful of doucher bureaucrats continuously do their damndest to ruin it. That constant fight wears people down, the airlines look like a relief with all the money for nothing angle, so every indiscretion seems like the world is ending. “No morale patches! Fucking hell, the good old days are gone!” “Wait, now the CSAF is doing mustache March? That’s it, I’m shaving it off and heading to Delta!” Which they have the option to do of course, because they’re an Air Force pilot.

Guard, Reserves, AD; you can’t really fuck this up. As long as you fly well, work hard, and be a bro, you’ll be fine. Just don’t join the Navy.

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10 hours ago, Tyking said:

 I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

That’s ignorant at best, whoever taught you that doesn’t know how this all works.  If your training unit or eventual CAF unit doesn’t like you, you won’t fly fighters or for long.  Other than that, you haven’t been paying attention.

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Thanks for the reply! I have thought about the gaurd and reserve. However, my family and I don’t really like the uncertainty that the gaurd/reserve can bring. I like the all or nothing aspect that active duty gives. Plus I’m a F-15 crew chief by trade, so with that being said I want to fly fighters. I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

Having gotten my wings during the great RPA scourge that was 2009, I considered myself lucky to get a manned platform. I think we had more RPAs in some drops than a year of pointy nose drops.

That being said, times have changed and I hear Big Blue is hurting for fighter pilots. But if you know without the shadow of a doubt that you want to be a fighter pilot, find an ANG or reserve unit to hire you. UPT will be hard enough w/o having to always compete to be #1-2/30. Me? I went in thinking I wanted fighters, mostly, then my mind changed when I saw other cool missions in the AF (and when I realized I wasn’t the best pilot at UPT).

Again, probably wouldn’t do it differently today, but back then I had absolutely zero idea how to get a job Guard/Reserve, let alone become a pilot. It’s a best kept secret from 2Lts. I’d highly recommend checking it out seriously.
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For the next 6-9 years, I don’t think finding a full time position in the ARC will be that hard. When the airlines stop hiring maybe it’ll go back to the old days of having to kill your own mom to get one, but those days are over...for now. At your age, I highly recommend pursuing the ARC...nothing wrong with going fighters in UPT as a guard guy (and I say that as a previous AD guy who didn’t go to ENJJPT and had to compete for 38s and a fighter assignment).

Edited by brabus
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6 hours ago, Shazaam said:

Yeah, I've seen maybe 1/6th of the promised improvements (cutting of CBTs was noticed, but moving additional duties to the CSS which is also staffed mainly by aircrew didn't do much).  The bonus is also right back to what it had been for my AFSC, but the civilian airline opportunities are dramatically greater than 5 yrs ago... Seems more like lip service sts than a response to a real crisis.

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$100k would keep me in, no doubt.  I feel like this is just a case of “Oh, the RAND study didn’t tell us what we wanted, so we are just going to pretend like it didn’t happen.”  

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again after leaving a UPT base last year, instead of just training 1k pilots to leave in 10 years now we are just training 1.4k pilots to leave. 

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Everyone will take closer note when the biggest pool of pilots by MAJCOM/core AFSC declines year over year 5-6%. The faster that pool declines into the red, the more attention and political support retention methods will get. Majority rules. Chalk it up to a psychological effect, or put in other words, damn the biggest group flopped from overage to major shortfall that fast (bureaucratically speaking)...!?

Side note: an interesting development is the politcal language created to say we are deepening in this crisis to a point we can't produce our way out of it...in a big way "absorption" problems = too few IPs to train new recruits production rate needed IMHO. When they advertise unforeseen delays in training non-MX or WX related, it is real baaadddd.

Why not spin that language! Don't waste a good crisis! Right, right? ...ugh

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“RIFed officers who are deployed, but are scheduled to return after Jan. 1, have the option of cutting their deployment short and returning home by Jan. 1, in which case they would separate no later than April 30. Their other option is to complete some or all of their current deployment and return home after Jan. 1, as long as their deployed commander agrees. Those airmen who remain on deployment will have to separate between 30 days and four months of their return date, and must leave no later than Nov. 30, 2015. They also must separate before they complete 18 years of total active federal military service

Deployed officers who are RIFed and scheduled to return on or earlier than Jan. 1 will separate no later than April 30, like other RIFed officers.”

 

i remember RIF/VSP. Funny don’t recall hearing about a crisis when big blue was telling pilots to GTFO. Or when generals/wing commanders were telling pilots “if you don’t like it, leave you’re replaceable” or that morale was “pretty darn good”  

Feels good hearing the machine squeal...couldn’t happen to a better bloated bureaucracy. Know your worth. 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/education-transition/jobs/2014/11/19/air-force-begins-notifying-rifed-officers/

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9 hours ago, DuckHunter said:

$100k would keep me in, no doubt.  I feel like this is just a case of “Oh, the RAND study didn’t tell us what we wanted, so we are just going to pretend like it didn’t happen.”  

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again after leaving a UPT base last year, instead of just training 1k pilots to leave in 10 years now we are just training 1.4k pilots to leave. 

To be fair, the RAND study did show a drop off in added retention above $30-40k.  You get the most people to stay by giving $100k, but you still get a bunch of those at $30-40k.  That said, if this was really a "crisis" to Big Blue, HAF would still ask for the $100k to keep the most people--that they don't have the guts/desire to even ask says something.

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58 minutes ago, raimius said:

To be fair, the RAND study did show a drop off in added retention above $30-40k.  You get the most people to stay by giving $100k, but you still get a bunch of those at $30-40k.  That said, if this was really a "crisis" to Big Blue, HAF would still ask for the $100k to keep the most people--that they don't have the guts/desire to even ask says something.

The study’s conclusion was that cost per trained pilot continued to decrease even as the bonus was increased through 100k.

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I think the percentages of takes are skewed. I think that since more people left that not only did fewer people take the bonus but there were fewer eligible because they left. I don’t think it takes that into account. There should be a stat for those who are eligible to stay and take a retainer bonus.

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