The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

For a brand-new test that's still in the "data-gathering" phase of  implementation. 

I'm not sure if you're being held at gunpoint or something, but what's your point?

 

Any physical fitness test that applies the same standards to males and females will yield a similar result. It is a silly and counterproductive rebellion against reality to expect otherwise. Women are weaker than men. 

 

If we came up with tests for cellulite prevalence, congenital heart failure, osteoporosis, or visceral fat, we would have similarly disparate outcomes. 

 

Women and men are not the same. We have done a rather marvelous job separating out the military specialities that do not rely on the specifically-male attributes of the species, and getting women in there. Infantry-and-the-like will remain a male specialty until they are replaced by robots. 

 

I'm sure you'll be back suggesting we are bitter androgynists for favoring the robots when we criticize President Beiber for unveiling the latest DOD combat banana hammocks at his first press conference in the middle of the droid wars on Venus.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[pawnman]

16 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

I'm not sure if you're being held at gunpoint or something, but what's your point?

 

Any physical fitness test that applies the same standards to males and females will yield a similar result. It is a silly and counterproductive rebellion against reality to expect otherwise. Women are weaker than men. 

 

If we came up with tests for cellulite prevalence, congenital heart failure, osteoporosis, or visceral fat, we would have similarly disparate outcomes. 

 

Women and men are not the same. We have done a rather marvelous job separating out the military specialities that do not rely on the specifically-male attributes of the species, and getting women in there. Infantry-and-the-like will remain a male specialty until they are replaced by robots. 

 

I'm sure you'll be back suggesting we are bitter androgynists for favoring the robots when we criticize President Beiber for unveiling the latest DOD combat banana hammocks at his first press conference in the middle of the droid wars on Venus.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.  I'm just saying that the failure of women to complete this specific test doesn't mean they are somehow lesser or ineffective in combat roles, that the test itself is brand-new, and that many men will bitch and complain that fitness tests don't truly measure combat capability...until you start including women.  But if women struggle more than men, that some test that "doesn't measure combat capability" is suddenly evidence that women don't belong in combat.  As if they haven't been there for years.

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, pawnman said:

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.  I'm just saying that the failure of women to complete this specific test doesn't mean they are somehow lesser or ineffective in combat roles, that the test itself is brand-new, and that many men will bitch and complain that fitness tests don't truly measure combat capability...until you start including women.  But if women struggle more than men, that some test that "doesn't measure combat capability" is suddenly evidence that women don't belong in combat.  As if they haven't been there for years.

Ok, but they *are* lesser or ineffective in certain combat roles. Those roles are quite specifically the ones requiring brute strength or extreme stamina. No test is needed, beyond common sense, but if you have doubts, I believe the Marine Infantry Officer Course was opened to women a few years ago with a predictable outcome.

 

Fighter pilots? Cool. Navy SEALS? Nope.

 

The story with the Army test is that they specifically attempted to create a test that would be gender neutral, yet still women are being overwhelmingly outperformed by men. And why was such a test constructed, with a goal of removing gender-based scoring metrics? I suspect because "gender-based" is a political hot potato when one half of our government is making a serious-yet-absurd argument that gender does not actually exist. 

Except most women aren't interested in fighting reality either, and they don't want lower PT scores on their evaluations because some SJW professor of reptilian rape culture considers it patriarchal to have different scoring criteria. We are allowing a very small number of very stupid people to create a tremendous amount of work and wasted effort in the well-intentioned desire to be inclusive. But there is such a thing as "too far."

 

[FlyingWolf]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Except most women aren't interested in fighting reality either, and they don't want lower PT scores on their evaluations because some SJW professor of reptilian rape culture considers it patriarchal to have different scoring criteria. We are allowing a very small number of very stupid people to create a tremendous amount of work and wasted effort in the well-intentioned desire to be inclusive. But there is such a thing as "too far."

 

This struck me as a funny viewing of the SJW type. I'd venture most champion different scoring criteria for the identities other than white male.

 

 

[Lord Ratner]

11 hours ago, FlyingWolf said:

This struck me as a funny viewing of the SJW type. I'd venture most champion different scoring criteria for the identities other than white male.

 

 

They want to manipulate the outcome in pursuit of "equity," but doing so with differential scoring criteria is to highlight the very differences they claim don't exist.

 

The demonization of test scores in academia is evidence of this. Affirmative action in University admissions has been around forever, and that's just a form of differential scoring. Not good enough. So now we get rid of grades, leaving group identity rather than performance as the metric for measuring worth. Ugly stuff.

 

As soon as you realize that the whole philosophy is corrupt, and the leaders of the movement know it, understanding the policy gets a lot easier. There's a reason the thought-leaders on the left have all but completely stopped engaging in debates with their counterparts on the right. They're lying, and you don't promote a lie by giving your opposition a platform to call you out on it.

[FlyingWolf]

56 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

 

Agree, in general, CRT and the like are inconsistent, self-contradictory, and destructive... so I wont waste enegry trying to steel-man them.

Edited March 19, 2021 by FlyingWolf

[Lecarpetron Dukemarriot]

This appears to be cult indoctrination 

https://youtu.be/5lnTvwdoQFw

[busdriver]

This has been RATM's politics for a long time.  Have you actually listened to their lyrics?

 

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, Lecarpetron Dukemarriot said:

This appears to be cult indoctrination 

https://youtu.be/5lnTvwdoQFw

I think you might be late to the party...this has been common for RATM for 30 years.

[Lecarpetron Dukemarriot]

I’ve been listening to them for decades. Although maybe I missed the videos they produced in the past making little kids upset because they are white. 

[busdriver]

"Take the Power Back."

[pbar]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9387769/F-22-stealth-fighter-pilot-reveals-forced-Air-Force-racism.html

I didn't see anything like this with the African-Americans I flew with or served with.  Heck, most of them did better than I did and went to USAFWS, SAAS, AWC, and made O-6...  YMMV though.

[Pooter]

5 hours ago, pbar said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9387769/F-22-stealth-fighter-pilot-reveals-forced-Air-Force-racism.html

I didn't see anything like this with the African-Americans I flew with or served with.  Heck, most of them did better than I did and went to USAFWS, SAAS, AWC, and made O-6...  YMMV though.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone here who knows more about the situation with this guy. My initial read is that something is a little fishy here. How does a supposedly shit hot raptor pilot/Harvard grad land himself as a line IP at the Randolph IFF squadron doing some innovation ball wash for AETC..

Is it because the organization with POC as the secdef, csaf, and cmsaf is viciously racist? Or is it because he pissed the wrong person off or was a douche in his community and was put out to pasture like so many other iron majors before him?
 

Sorry dude, I know it hurts. But it's happened to white dudes too. In fact.. almost exclusively white dudes. 

[GrndPndr]

13 hours ago, pbar said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9387769/F-22-stealth-fighter-pilot-reveals-forced-Air-Force-racism.html

I didn't see anything like this with the African-Americans I flew with or served with.  Heck, most of them did better than I did and went to USAFWS, SAAS, AWC, and made O-6...  YMMV though.

This is just another opportunity to put drama in front of the public (in the flavor of the day).  It received attention, and the Daily Mail profited from the story - mission accomplished.

Could they have found five Caucasian guys with the same (or close story), and get them to whine?  Quite probably.  But it's not the flavor of the day, and the media can't profit from it, so we don't hear about it.

 

[Sua Sponte]

Wokeness is an entire generation of children who were never told no.

[kaputt]

I asked a buddy who flies 38s with the Raptors if he had heard any rumblings about this guy. 
 

“Oh yeah, everyone here says that guy was an awful pilot.”

And...

”Apparently he Q3’d an evaluation up at Elmendorf so they sent him to IFF”

So yeah, there’s more to the story. 

[ToHoldShort]

An F-22 pilot on why he felt discriminated against in the Air Force - YouTube

Video with 60 minutes, seems like there is more to this

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

I asked a buddy who flies 38s with the Raptors if he had heard any rumblings about this guy. 
 

“Oh yeah, everyone here says that guy was an awful pilot.”

And...

”Apparently he Q3’d an evaluation up at Elmendorf so they sent him to IFF”

So yeah, there’s more to the story. 

😮This is my shocked face. 
 

So now we know he's a shitty pilot and human being. Newsflash: the raptor demo pilot ONE DEMO TEAM AGO was a black guy. 
 

 

[SurelySerious]

Duckworth to vote No on any cabinet member who isn’t “diverse”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/duckworth-threatens-biden-nominees-over-210241753.html

So you’re going to vote solely on one particular immutable characteristic? Weird. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by SurelySerious

[Smokin]

19 hours ago, Pooter said:

Sorry dude, I know it hurts. But it's happened to white dudes too. In fact.. almost exclusively white dudes. 

I thought the exact same thing when I read that article.  I was told the same thing as him.  In UPT I was "cocky and talked too much" and in MQT "I wasn't confident enough and never talked".  It is amazing that until I read his story, I never realized that my instructors were not providing me valuable feedback to find the middle ground but were, in fact, just being racist.

[Blue]

5 hours ago, ToHoldShort said:

An F-22 pilot on why he felt discriminated against in the Air Force - YouTube

Video with 60 minutes, seems like there is more to this

Can you give us a synopsis?

[kaputt]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

😮This is my shocked face. 
 

So now we know he's a shitty pilot and human being. Newsflash: the raptor demo pilot ONE DEMO TEAM AGO was a black guy. 
 

 

Yep, that was my reaction too. 

I also heard some other RUMINT on this guy but I’m not sure I should be the one to share it on a public forum. FWIW it also seems the Air Force did do an investigation into his claims and came up empty. 

[ViperMan]

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

Yep, that was my reaction too. 

I also heard some other RUMINT on this guy but I’m not sure I should be the one to share it on a public forum. FWIW it also seems the Air Force did do an investigation into his claims and came up empty. 

https://youtu.be/mBx-eT8D5nc?t=11

This is the forum. 60 minutes wasn't the forum. Go with details.

[N730]

Duckworth to vote No on any cabinet member who isn’t “diverse”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/duckworth-threatens-biden-nominees-over-210241753.html

So you’re going to vote solely on one particular immutable characteristic? Weird. 

That's disappointed. Duckworth has generally seemed reasonable. And I loved when she lot into the guy that hurt himself playing military prep school football for claiming "disabled veteran" status with his business. So I'm disappointed to see her being part of that kind of bullshit.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[HeloDude]

32 minutes ago, N730 said:

That's disappointed. Duckworth has generally seemed reasonable. And I loved when she lot into the guy that hurt himself playing military prep school football for claiming "disabled veteran" status with his business. So I'm disappointed to see her being part of that kind of bullshit.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app
 

You sound surprised.  She’s very far left...of course she’s going to push the identity politics stuff—it’s literally part of the left’s platform.