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It is one of the first things they teach on physical security that barriers are incapable of keeping people out; that thinking the existence of a wall or door will keep someone out is the absolute worst mistake you can make. There is no such thing as an effective barrier.

Instead, doors, fences, and locks are delay devices, meant to keep someone busy while the the alarms bring responders. In any real physical security scenario, it is really the responders (and the threat of them) that keep people away, not the walls.

Further, when there IS a wall, generally all costs for security and alerting are built into the wall, offering a fantastic opportunity for attackers to plan distractions, costly vandalism, and to circumvent the easily probed security. You k ow how expensive it is to hire a welder to work in the desert, and to haul repair materials out like that? It's certainly not cheap. And then you need an HSI expert to repair and test the security.

But the desert doesn't need another delay mechanism. The desert there itself is the delay mechanism, as it takes days to cross, and there's nowhere to hide.

Instead, we just need an effective alarm. Instead of a wall or barrier, what we need is drones: cheap, efficient cameras capable of quickly being replaced and covering large areas. Put a motion sensor and anomaly detection on the drone platform, have it call out a second drone for continued monitoring, and follow the incursion while alerting the actual border patrol to send out a truck.

This would be far more effective. If a drone goes down or gets shot down, it would be trivial to detect and send replacements and response. All the drones need is a platform for recharging: put them on the border patrol vehicles.

We don't need another delay mechanism; we already have one. We just need an effective alarm.

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Complete and utter malarkey. ONE mainstream network went after Obama, Foxnews, some of it unwarranted Political tripe, some of it valid.  Meanwhile ALL of the remaining mainstream networks suppor

Want to slash American carbon?  Build nuclear power plants.  

When MSNBC announced Trump's win in Iowa, there was an audible grunt from Rachel Madow. By the sound of it, she apparently sat on her sack wrong. Happens to the best of us.

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2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

It is one of the first things they teach on physical security that barriers are incapable of keeping people out; that thinking the existence of a wall or door will keep someone out is the absolute worst mistake you can make. There is no such thing as an effective barrier.

Instead, doors, fences, and locks are delay devices, meant to keep someone busy while the the alarms bring responders. In any real physical security scenario, it is really the responders (and the threat of them) that keep people away, not the walls.

Further, when there IS a wall, generally all costs for security and alerting are built into the wall, offering a fantastic opportunity for attackers to plan distractions, costly vandalism, and to circumvent the easily probed security. You k ow how expensive it is to hire a welder to work in the desert, and to haul repair materials out like that? It's certainly not cheap. And then you need an HSI expert to repair and test the security.

But the desert doesn't need another delay mechanism. The desert there itself is the delay mechanism, as it takes days to cross, and there's nowhere to hide.

Instead, we just need an effective alarm. Instead of a wall or barrier, what we need is drones: cheap, efficient cameras capable of quickly being replaced and covering large areas. Put a motion sensor and anomaly detection on the drone platform, have it call out a second drone for continued monitoring, and follow the incursion while alerting the actual border patrol to send out a truck.

This would be far more effective. If a drone goes down or gets shot down, it would be trivial to detect and send replacements and response. All the drones need is a platform for recharging: put them on the border patrol vehicles.

We don't need another delay mechanism; we already have one. We just need an effective alarm.

No.

"The Wall" is a device to perform prevention, dissuading, delaying and directing to harsh terrain device to make interception of the determined illegal crossers highly likely, resulting in a far higher level of security that our current rusty screen door with a broken latch physical barriers are.  You have to have an imposing physical barrier to prevent crossing then quickly melding/disappearing into adjoining urban areas or difficult to scan/detect and physically intercept rural areas.

It is the first step in interception if the illegal crosser is not dissuaded, direct your opponent to where/how you want to fight then finish the engagement.

No doubt it will not prevent all illegal crossings but countries still put up SAMs as they know they dissuade and destroy some X percentage of air aggressors. 

The problem with the detection then interception strategy is the American Legal system coupled with the Globalist Legal / Political / Media Complex.

The warping and perversion of the law is incredible, leftists say they want the "smart wall" because they know even if they are detected and caught, that detection and apprehension did two things:  used up CBP resources that will likely allow leakers just behind them to get in as CBP will be come saturated and then those apprehended will consume legal resources to prevent removal and again just wear the system down.  

Edited by Clark Griswold
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Interesting to note all those people who railed against Obama's use of executive privilege are remaining silent on Trump declaring a "national emergency", this completely sidestepping the legislative branch of government to fund his pet project.
 
 
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I'm totally against it. He missed his shot when the Republicans controlled the Congress. This is just sloppy.

But tactically it may be smart. He can at least force Democrats to constantly rail against any anti-immigration measures, keeping them as the party of lawlessness and foreign interest. That will play very well come election time, and it got him elected in the first place.
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Why do we have fences and gates around our military bases then?  Why do prisons have walls, cells and locks?   Why do banks have safes?  Why did civilizations build castles and forts?  Why is the Vatican surrounded by walls, as well as most "celebrities" homes?!?

Walls aren't perfect, but they do a helluva better job of keeping people out than places without them.

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10 hours ago, Vertigo said:

The funny thing is you actually believe that.

And yes I wasn't a fan of Obama's use of EOs. But then I don't remember him using them to fund projects not authorized by Congress either.

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10 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Area 51 airspace

Ha. I don't think anyone is proposing putting physical barriers in the air.

However, Area 51 does seem to lack imposing physical barriers. Granted it's probably not worth attempting to go there, but should we secure the border the same way?

0aaawrwanwarnin.jpg

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I would be very surprised if the cost to secure the border in the same manner we secure highly sensitive sites didn't significantly surpass the current cost of just building the wall.

@Vertigo I'll give your robot idea support - good idea to use that technology to track intruders and direct CBP.  Even better when said intruders are held up at a physical barrier, giving CBP response time.  My home's barriers won't stop anyone determined from getting in, but they will give my wife and I plenty of time to meet them with firearms in a very advantageous way.

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13 hours ago, torqued said:

Ha. I don't think anyone is proposing putting physical barriers in the air.

However, Area 51 does seem to lack imposing physical barriers. Granted it's probably not worth attempting to go there, but should we secure the border the same way?

0aaawrwanwarnin.jpg

apples to oranges

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They all do it, he will be challenged in court, he might win, there’s no way everyone in the White House hasn’t thought of these scenarios.  It’s also possible he wants to lose in court, I know that doesn’t make a whole lotta sense and I sound like a (D) but what if he slamming the door on EO’s. He loses in court, all future presidents will be handicapped and he can blame the courts, it’s kind of a smooth move.  The democrats know this as well, you’ll see posturing and MSNBC screaming at the loss of democracy (which is funny considering their sprint towards socialism), but I betcha they don’t fight very hard.  Ever heard of the Patriot Act?

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10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

don't make me explain how getting into area 51 is totally different than trying to get into the united states.

i'd hope you're not that dense, but i could be wrong

How would I make you, and why would I want you, to explain anything? You entered the conversation, created an argument I didn’t make, attributed it to me, and used it as an opportunity to suggest you’re smart. Not interested.

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On 2/17/2019 at 5:38 AM, torqued said:

Ha. I don't think anyone is proposing putting physical barriers in the air.

However, Area 51 does seem to lack imposing physical barriers. Granted it's probably not worth attempting to go there, but should we secure the border the same way?

0aaawrwanwarnin.jpg

Hmm seems like you asked a question?

anyway not interested either. 

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No Jussie Smollet talk?  Odd.

No Steven Hatfield talk?  Odd.

No Samantha Powers talk?  Odd.

No Chicago corruption talk even for something as simple as a library?  Odd.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/obamacenter/ct-met-obama-presidential-library-chicago-lawsuit-20190214-story.html

Edited by brickhistory
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