The Next President is...

[disgruntledemployee]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:40 PM, bfargin said:

Not really, but over anything the left offers, I’d take Trump.

I’d love an actual conservative.

Well, shit.  I suppose that oath to the Constitution is all bullshit, hence my flag ass wipe analogy.  Carry on, buddy.

Hey bartender, keep em coming, we're all fucked anyway.

[brabus]

Watched the entire debate and trump’s interview. Trump’s, and the “only trump” crowd’s, behavior is identical to the progressive left. They are one in the same, just on opposite sides of the ideological spectrum. If you don’t support trump unequivocally, you are immediately dead to them, “a true Dem,” etc. Both groups lack all ability to critically think and apply logic.

As far as the debate, I think the unsurprising top 2 were Desantis and Vivek. Overall I think Vivek crushed it, and is the top conservative candidate who can appeal towards independents, voters under 40, and even grab voters from slightly left of center who can’t stand Biden. I completely agree with his argument that it’s time for a new generation to lead this country; everyone under 50 is done being “led” by 75+ year olds (trump is 80 for God’s sake!) I see the same problem locally - most of the 50+ crowd active in the community are so out of touch with the under 50 crowd who are at the beginning to median point of their working career with kids at home. To them I say, “your experience and wisdom is valuable, but you need to step aside and be a supporting asset and not the supported asset. You are now ineffective by yourselves, put the 30-40s crowd in and let them move the ball down the field with your help.”

 

[Sim]

 

Almost 200 million views in 24 hrs. 

[HossHarris]

Meh … I think Vivek came off a lot LESS polished by getting into trump-esq pissing matches and talking over Haley and Pence. To be fair, it didn’t look good on them either, but unless something significant changes they don’t stand a chance anyway. 

[brabus]

My viewpoint is he didn’t start a single one of those pissing matches and actually kept his cool far better than the ones who started the BS in the first place, and certainly far better than trump would have. His answers are also well stated and thought out, especially considering it’s on the fly. I wish Desantis would have been more direct in addressing other candidates - he seemed a little quiet at times. Doesn’t affect my view on him though, still like him as a candidate who can crush Biden. 

[HossHarris]

9 minutes ago, brabus said:

My viewpoint is he didn’t start a single one of those pissing matches and actually kept his cool far better than the ones who started the BS in the first place, and certainly far better than trump would have. His answers are also well stated and thought out, especially considering it’s on the fly. I wish Desantis would have been more direct in addressing other candidates - he seemed a little quiet at times. Doesn’t affect my view on him though, still like him as a candidate who can crush Biden. 

I think Desantis played the debate well …. Why bother rolling around in the mud with the single digit polling folks when he didn’t need to. 
 

just wish he had given more straight answers and less pre-canned messages. 
 

he’s been a really good governor. 

[brabus]

Concur. I like him, hope to see less canned statements next month. I think the main thing that pushed Vivek ahead last night was his ability to speak extemporaneously vs. cycle a bunch of rehearsed, canned answers. If Desantis can do that in the following debates, he absolutely crushes everybody. 
 

Bottom line at this point, either Desantis or Vivek are the most capable of crushing Biden in the general. As Haley said, Trump is the most disliked politician out there. He is the most likely to lose in the general election out of the top few GOP hopefuls. True conservatives see that, the progressive-like Trump cult refuse to see that. As Desantis said early on and last night, this is not about any one man, it’s about getting our country out of the dumpster fire it resides in.  The “all in for trump” crowd are making it about one man, their cult leader. They are demonstrating they in fact do not care about the bigger picture and the betterment of our country. It’s the epitome of “if you don’t play what I want to play, I’m taking my ball and going home.” Really getting sick of these people who very well may end up directly responsible for foisting our country into another 4 years of this egregious bullshit. I won’t blame the Dems or their base if that happens, I’ll blame trump and all of his acolytes. 

[Pooter]

13 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Voting in the next election isn't going to solve anything. There will be no candidates that are middle of the road that could actually undo the fracture within our society. The outcome is going to be one thing: one group will lose big time, and the other group will hold the reigns of power for four years. Our current cultural moment is one in which when one party wins, the other loses. We are not going to have a candidate that is going to offer any middle ground. Your vote isn't going to change that most basic fact. It didn't always used to be that way, either.

This attitude, or the idea of holding your nose and voting for the lesser of two evils, is exactly why we have two dominating dumpster fire political parties. The tribal nature of our politics runs so deep people will literally vote for a guy they hate, as long as they have the right letter next to their name. 
 

 

[brabus]

@Pooter Generally agree, but there’s plenty of people also who will vote for the lesser of two evils with no regard for the letter next to the name. 2 party status quo sucks, but abstaining just to watch the worst option win is not helping the country one bit. Copy that “worst option” has subjectivity attached to it. Abstinence is not the answer (unless your my daughter) - there’s got to be a better way that actually has teeth vs. purely emotional “fee good.” I don’t have the answer, but I’d sure like to hear some that actually might move the needle. 

[bfargin]

If it’s Vivek or Desantis, this will be my second time voting for what seems to be a good presidential candidate. Reagan was my first chance voting, and I was proud to vote. Since then, I’ve either pinched my nose and voted, or knowingly threw my vote away voting for someone not on the ballot.

I still know my support of Fred Thompson was correct and grounded in 2008!

[Lawman]

Man it’s weird how the media isn’t going out of its way to point out how diverse the Republican debate stage was…

Odd *sarcasm*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VigilanteNav]

Republican debate: Chris Christie was the biggest surprise of the event | Washington Examiner

Don't sleep on Christie. Sure, he's no Ronnie Reagan.  But, a former Gov of a blue state. Check. Think about it in terms of the general election.  He might even win some blue states (New Jersey...duh!) but maybe some of your purples (your Georgia's, Nevada's, Wisconsin's) that are going to decide it.  Personally, I think if you go DJT or any of his culture warrior clones then you spook the swing voters (see 2020, 2022 midterms, many other local elections, etc).             

[M2]

It needs to be Desantis and Vivek!

And fuck Trump!  I hope to God it doesn't end up being him vs. Biden; but if it does, I will begrudgingly vote for the slightly-lesser idiot...

[Lord Ratner]

22 hours ago, brabus said:

My viewpoint is he didn’t start a single one of those pissing matches and actually kept his cool far better than the ones who started the BS in the first place, and certainly far better than trump would have. His answers are also well stated and thought out, especially considering it’s on the fly. I wish Desantis would have been more direct in addressing other candidates - he seemed a little quiet at times. Doesn’t affect my view on him though, still like him as a candidate who can crush Biden. 

I'm a big Vivek supporter, but he got over his skis a little. The "bought and paid for" accusations were gross. I hate that crap. He has a couple other attacks that I thought were scummy.

 

He needs to stick with being smarter and more open then the rest of the field.

 

But I also think he's running for VP. 

[HossHarris]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

 

But I also think he's running for VP. 

Agreed

[disgruntledemployee]

All the Pol pundits, etc, say the two most boring dudes on the stage came in last, which were former Govs Doug Burgum and Asa Hutchinson.  Those two together as P/VP (it doesn't matter which one) would probably do just fine.  They probably got enough grey matter between the ears to make informed decisions (unlike current dude), they both have executive level experience**, and they're boring.  I think boring is good. 

** I loved the irony of Pence when chastising Ramaswamy that now is not the time for OJT.  Rama should have retorted, "like your former boss did?"

PS.  The Desantis "smile" at the end of his opening rant, where he didn't really answer the question, was hilarious.  I can just imagine what was going on inside that brain... Ooh, a question... uhh, start the rant answer we rehearsed... look angry.. point... the end... uhh, smile?  smirk?  how do I smile again?  just fake it... say cheese?  He was the most fake up there the other night.  Let's invade Mexico!!!

[ClearedHot]

22 hours ago, M2 said:

It needs to be Desantis and Vivek!

And fuck Trump!  I hope to God it doesn't end up being him vs. Biden; but if it does, I will begrudgingly vote for the slightly-lesser idiot...

Surprised yet not surprised at the support for Vivek, IMHO he is dangerous and radical!

Have you guys actually read his policy proposals? 

1.  He wants to raise the voting age to 25 by AMENDING the Constitution and require a civics test to vote.  As populist as that sounds cool...but Holy freaking suppression of voting rights.  Have you ever noticed it is the radicals that want to amend the Constitution?

2.  He wants to abolish the FBI.  I am not a fan of the weaponsization of the FBI and while I support some serious retooling, but abolishing the FBI would have an astounding impact on the security of this nation.  His plan is to redistribute those funds to the Secret Service and DIA...the absolute ignorance is astounding. 

3.  “Climate change is a hoax."  Do you guys really believe that?  We have dumped trillions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and it most certainly has had an impact.  That being said I think we should drill and go back to being energy independent.  If I were king for a day I would place a reasonable tax on energy sources derived from govt land and by law channel it ALL into a Manhattan like project to solve fusion or other cleaner energies.

4.  On the debate stage Wednesday night, Ramaswamy said the United States “pays single women more not to have a man in the house than to have a man in the house, contributing to an epidemic of fatherlessness.”  I agree with this statement, especially as it relates to minorities (67% of African American children are born into fatherless household).  HOWEVER, what program would he cut...support to single moms?  This has been tried many times and some key programs were cut under Clinton but the problem has only worsened because it is a social cultural issue.

5.  I can support cutting the Dept of Education but his suggestion to cut the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is again pure ignorance.  He thinks they are the obstacle to greater use of nuclear energy, it is actually the leadership appointed by politicians.  They do serve a purpose.

 Finally, after commenting "now that all the rehearsed lines are out of the way" he started rolling out all of his own.  If you think that was just extemporaneous replies I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell you.

I thought Desantis did better and policy wise he is closest to what I would to see.  He does have some issues that will hurt him, the 6 week abortion law in Florida is going to kick his ass with the folks int he middle.  As a Floridian he has also failed to deal with the Homeowners insurance crisis here and it is starting to drag him down locally.

I did not and will not watch the Trump debate, between him and Tucker I have had enough narcissistic bloviating for a lifetime.

[brabus]

@ClearedHot

Overall, I think two things need to be considered when listening to anybody campaigning - what’s the actual point they’re making lying underneath whatever “base igniting” actions they propose, and understanding there will be ignorant statements made from those who have never been there, had a security clearance, etc. The latter’s approach to a problem change all the time once they’re afforded the opportunity to be fully informed, read in, etc. This is all par for the course.

1. 16 yr olds and illegals are voting in some states (locally). Millions of incredibly ignorant people vote all the time. These are problems. Will Vivek actually amend it to 25, probably not at all. But will he push for a civics test, maybe, and I fully support that. That’s not suppression, that’s a contract between the country and the citizens that they actually are informed enough to vote. I do not think anyone deserves to vote when all they know is their TikTok feed. If new citizens have to take this test, then no problem with people who were lucky enough to be born in this country have to take the same. Hell, the left should be arguing it’s racist to make immigrants take it and not make natural born citizens take it. Create a nice study packet that spoon feeds the answers, blatantly even. The actual point is people will read said study packet and actually learn even if they think all they’re doing is memorizing answers.

2. FBI, DOE, NRC, etc. He sees the massive problem of our govt agencies, and so do you. His comments are to fire people up, not literal. I do think he will push for significant reform, but it’s incredibly unlikely that a hypothetical president Vivek would actually put real effort into fully dissolving these agencies (other than DOE, that one should be dissolved).

3. You and Vivek are probably about lock step on this. Humans affecting climate is real, but the term “Climate Change” as defined by the left and currently used in the 2020s vernacular is a total lie. He could have phrased his response better by clarifying that important distinction. His following statement that more people have been hurt by “climate change policies” than actual climate change is completely accurate. He then follows up with how to make America energy independent…that’s the wheat (separated from the chaff) in this line of discussion…he wants to stop strangling current day American energy capabilities while simultaneously exploring and expanding nuclear energy for a cleaner future (to eventually replace those fossil fuels). That’s about as logical and smart as you can get on the topic of energy in a very simplified manner.

4. This is a problem as you said. Have to find ways to stop incentivizing people to not work and to not be a family unit. Unless I missed it, he really just highlighted this as a big problem in our society, but didn’t provide exact solutions. That will take some OJT before anyone could provide informed COAs.

5. See first comment and #2

 

[uhhello]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Surprised yet not surprised at the support for Vivek, IMHO he is dangerous and radical!

Have you guys actually read his policy proposals? 

1.  He wants to raise the voting age to 25 by AMENDING the Constitution and require a civics test to vote.  As populist as that sounds cool...but Holy freaking suppression of voting rights.  Have you ever noticed it is the radicals that want to amend the Constitution?

2.  He wants to abolish the FBI.  I am not a fan of the weaponsization of the FBI and while I support some serious retooling, but abolishing the FBI would have an astounding impact on the security of this nation.  His plan is to redistribute those funds to the Secret Service and DIA...the absolute ignorance is astounding. 

3.  “Climate change is a hoax."  Do you guys really believe that?  We have dumped trillions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and it most certainly has had an impact.  That being said I think we should drill and go back to being energy independent.  If I were king for a day I would place a reasonable tax on energy sources derived from govt land and by law channel it ALL into a Manhattan like project to solve fusion or other cleaner energies.

4.  On the debate stage Wednesday night, Ramaswamy said the United States “pays single women more not to have a man in the house than to have a man in the house, contributing to an epidemic of fatherlessness.”  I agree with this statement, especially as it relates to minorities (67% of African American children are born into fatherless household).  HOWEVER, what program would he cut...support to single moms?  This has been tried many times and some key programs were cut under Clinton but the problem has only worsened because it is a social cultural issue.

5.  I can support cutting the Dept of Education but his suggestion to cut the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is again pure ignorance.  He thinks they are the obstacle to greater use of nuclear energy, it is actually the leadership appointed by politicians.  They do serve a purpose.

 Finally, after commenting "now that all the rehearsed lines are out of the way" he started rolling out all of his own.  If you think that was just extemporaneous replies I have some swamp land in Arizona to sell you.

I thought Desantis did better and policy wise he is closest to what I would to see.  He does have some issues that will hurt him, the 6 week abortion law in Florida is going to kick his ass with the folks int he middle.  As a Floridian he has also failed to deal with the Homeowners insurance crisis here and it is starting to drag him down locally.

I did not and will not watch the Trump debate, between him and Tucker I have had enough narcissistic bloviating for a lifetime.

Do you think ANY of what he said is actually possible?  They can't get a budget passed.  I take it more as this is what I would like to do but I know its never ever going to come close to happening and I'll make headway to restrict/restructure if I'm elected.  

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

@ClearedHot

1. 16 yr olds and illegals are voting in some states (locally). Millions of incredibly ignorant people vote all the time. These are problems. Will Vivek actually amend it to 25, probably not at all. But will he push for a civics test, maybe, and I fully support that. That’s not suppression, that’s a contract between the country and the citizens that they actually are informed enough to vote. I do not think anyone deserves to vote when all they know is their TikTok feed. If new citizens have to take this test, then no problem with people who were lucky enough to be born in this country have to take the same. Hell, the left should be arguing it’s racist to make immigrants take it and not make natural born citizens take it. Create a nice study packet that spoon feeds the answers, blatantly even. The actual point is people will read said study packet and actually learn even if they think all they’re doing is memorizing answers.

Voting rights are in the Constitution...adding a litmus test and 25 year age rule opens the door to doing the same with other rights.  I guess you now support a test to own a gun, have free speech or invoke your rights against self-incrimination.  This is a horrible and slippery slope to go down just because YOU are concerned about ignorant voters.  I agree there is a problem likely related to taking civics classes out of schools but trying to legislate a test to vote is insanity as a person who swore to protect and defend the Constitution.

1 hour ago, brabus said:

@ClearedHot

If new citizens have to take this test, then no problem with people who were lucky enough to be born in this country have to take the same.

Ahhh no...They take a test because they are NOT American's that why they take the test.  Lucky or not, Americans by birth are immediately veiled in all the rights afforded by the Constitution.

1 hour ago, brabus said:

@ClearedHot

 

2. FBI, DOE, NRC, etc. He sees the massive problem of our govt agencies, and so do you. His comments are to fire people up, not literal. I do think he will push for significant reform, but it’s incredibly unlikely that a hypothetical president Vivek would actually put real effort into fully dissolving these agencies (other than DOE, that one should

I see a problem as well as I have noted on numerous occasions...not the issue.  The issue is he is a radical who is not calling to fix the institution, rather he wants to burn it down.  You have to view radicals for what they SAY not what you think them mean.

[ClearedHot]

11 minutes ago, uhhello said:

Do you think ANY of what he said is actually possible?  They can't get a budget passed.  I take it more as this is what I would like to do but I know its never ever going to come close to happening and I'll make headway to restrict/restructure if I'm elected.  

You are "probably" correct, but in these hyperbolic times I pay attention when a radical screams changes to the Constitution. 

[HeloDude]

20 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Voting rights are in the Constitution...adding a litmus test and 25 year age rule opens the door to doing the same with other rights. 

Just curious if you’re supportive of removing the other age restrictions outlined in the Constitution?

[ClearedHot]

20 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Just curious if you’re supportive of removing the other age restrictions outlined in the Constitution?

In general, I am in favor of keeping rather adding.  Imposing two new hurdles to vote is simply radical.

[tac airlifter]

11 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

In general, I am in favor of keeping rather adding.  Imposing two new hurdles to vote is simply radical.

I agree with many of your points, but I totally disagree with your take on voting.  Our elections are a national crisis, something radical must be done or our system risks illegitimacy.  I think fraud is widespread enough to impact results, and I am not alone. Whether this is true or not we do not know with certainty, because credible investigations are stymied. However, like many things with authority, the perception of impropriety is as damaging as actual impropriety itself.  I think voter ID laws and paper ballots are a minimum requirement moving forward.  

[ClearedHot]

1 minute ago, tac airlifter said:

I agree with many of your points, but I totally disagree with your take on voting.  Our elections are a national crisis, something radical must be done or our system risks illegitimacy.  I think fraud is widespread enough to impact results, and I am not alone. Whether this is true or not we do not know with certainty, because credible investigations are stymied. However, like many things with authority, the perception of impropriety is as damaging as actual impropriety itself.  I think voter ID laws and paper ballots are a minimum requirement moving forward.  

Voter ID laws and paper ballots (which I support), have NOTHING to do with raising the voting age 7 years and requiring a civics test.