What's wrong with the Air Force?

[pawnman]

This should help retention during the strongest job market in decades. 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/09/02/airmen-brace-for-special-duty-pay-cut-in-2023/?fbclid=IwAR2wIGPCTD6WJroaKeB3bD9Cnn_4dRWBcfMXPdmUlPA3QfiHxQaJHLVqLBY

[CaptainMorgan]

“We need a more modern way to be able to assess” housing and subsistence allowances and cost-of-living adjustments, she said

Easy: quarterly base pay, flight pay, and BAS adjustments automatically tied to inflation. Realistic BAH reviews (maybe not on a quarterly basis, since this would require more manpower) that actually look at the available housing market and exclude developments/apartments the Wing King wouldn’t let his kid live in. I understand this would make budgeting incredibly difficult, but it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the nonsense programs Congress funds on what seems to be a daily basis.


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[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

“We need a more modern way to be able to assess” housing and subsistence allowances and cost-of-living adjustments, she said

Easy: quarterly base pay, flight pay, and BAS adjustments automatically tied to inflation. Realistic BAH reviews (maybe not on a quarterly basis, since this would require more manpower) that actually look at the available housing market and exclude developments/apartments the Wing King wouldn’t let his kid live in. I understand this would make budgeting incredibly difficult, but it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the nonsense programs Congress funds on what seems to be a daily basis.


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That sucks if you guys (retired) take a cut in any type of pay but especially special duty pay.  

Flight pay was enough to keep me from going crazy when dealing with non aviators (low to mid ranking mx dudes were cool too).  It was a sanity buffer. 

[CaptainMorgan]

That sucks if you guys (retired) take a cut in any type of pay but especially special duty pay.  
Flight pay was enough to keep me from going crazy when dealing with non aviators (low to mid ranking mx dudes were cool too).  It was a sanity buffer. 

I was amused when I realized that as an O-4 with flight pay and a bonus I was making more than the nonner O-6s and below that caused me the greatest headaches.


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[Biff_T]

21 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

I was amused when I realized that as an O-4 with flight pay and a bonus I was making more than the nonner O-6s and below that caused me the greatest headaches.


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That's one of the small victories in the battle to retirement.  Fly, fight and win!   You can find employment where nobody cares about the red slides out here. You can also do nothing if you plan well and live within your means.  

Not a recruiter.  I loved flying and my bros but hated the queep.  Stick it out one way or another for some type of pension; Active, Reserve,  Guard or Federal.  Get something for that time served.  You earned it!

The irony is one of my last posts (prior to my resurgence last month) on BO was in this very forum talking about queep and people getting RIFd.  I probably had about 12 years in at that time.   I wish I could tell my past self that I made it into the golden parachute club.  That would've been a huge stress relief.  Lol.

I remember the good times.  Flying in the military was a privilege and I took my job seriously.  In the end it's about getting our bros/sis home. Whether it's on a combat sortie providing CAS or on training sortie teaching a young dude how to land on NVGs in whiteout conditions.  Some didn't make it.  Remember them.

We all know who does the flying, fighting and winning.

Good luck and have fun!

You'll think about it everyday when you're gone.   

[Sua Sponte]

By "Loadmasters" I assume all Career Enlisted Aviators?

[dream big]

13 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

I was amused when I realized that as an O-4 with flight pay and a bonus I was making more than the nonner O-6s and below that caused me the greatest headaches.


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I just did the math, what an epic morale boost!! 

[Biff_T]

9 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

By "Loadmasters" I assume all Career Enlisted Aviators?

They figured out that with the amount of sleep loadmasters get in flight, they're not actually working as much as everyone else.   Lol.

[Biff_T]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/09/06/heres-what-enlisted-leaders-want-from-the-upcoming-pay-benefit-study/

 

[arg]

6 hours ago, Biff_T said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/09/06/heres-what-enlisted-leaders-want-from-the-upcoming-pay-benefit-study/

 

Back when they couldn't afford cars it was much easier to find a parking spot.

[di1630]

My estimate….You can cut 30% of the people with zero mission detriment.

Most of the people complaining are lucky they aren’t rotating tires at Walmart.

[Majestik Møøse]

Seems like the CMSAF wants to reduce the pay for special duty while increasing the pay for non-special duty. A continuing attempt by the Air Force to make the best less special and the average more special. Can’t have anyone being cooler than the Bobs…

[Biff_T]

I think it's great to give NCOs a pay raise but why only NCOs?    

Also, when has it ever been good to take non taxable income away from your people?   Especially if they are the same people hopping into aircraft and flying for a living.  Or maybe it's a CCT, PJ or JTAC that do jobs that put you in harms way.    

How many finance troops think they might die when they go to work?  

[nunya]

8 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

How many finance troops think they might die when they go to work?  

Those obvious dangerous/combat jobs are certainly included, but there are lots that aren't so tip of the spear.

Quote

Enlisted airmen whose special duty pay will be affected include:

• Basic military training instructors
• Human intelligence debriefers
• Combat controllers
• Pararescuemen
• Tactical air control party operators
• Command chief master sergeants
• Special reconnaissance operators
• First sergeants
• Defense attaché office liaisons
• Airmen in the nuclear enterprise
• Air Force Office of Special Investigations agents
• Air traffic control supervisors
• Enlisted pilots
• Enlisted weapons directors
• Parachute instructors and those with the test parachute program
• Flight attendants
• Mission system specialists
• Loadmasters
• Contracting airmen
• Air Force Honor Guardsmen
• Phoenix Raven security forces defenders
• Airmen who work with forward area refueling points
• Flying crew chiefs
• Defense couriers
• Airmen who work at certain commands or government agencies
• Airmen who work with certain federal panels
• Public affairs airmen assigned to recruiting squadrons
• Air transportation airmen
• Airmen who work on classified Air Force projects

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by nunya

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, nunya said:

Those obvious dangerous/combat jobs are certainly included, but there are lots that aren't so tip of the spear.

 

Regardless, if they have to take money from airmen they're f-ing something up big time.  

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Regardless, if they have to take money from airmen they're f-ing something up big time.  

Can't afford all those F-35s AND the personnel budget.

Guess which one brings in more money to congressional districts? 

[FDNYOldGuy]

6 hours ago, pawnman said:

Guess which one brings in more money to congressional districts their own portfolios and reelection campaign donation coffers?

FTFY

[jice]

9 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Regardless, if they have to take money from airmen they're f-ing something up big time.  

I’m just really stoked to explain to my 9 year old niece how to learn to stop worrying and love the draft. “It wasn’t us, we really had no idea how this would affect us.”

[Bigred]

23 hours ago, Biff_T said:

   

Also, when has it ever been good to take non taxable income away from your people?   

SDAP is taxable. 

[Biff_T]

25 minutes ago, Bigred said:

SDAP is taxable. 

Ok.   

[Blue]

On 9/3/2022 at 10:24 AM, pawnman said:

This should help retention during the strongest job market in decades. 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/09/02/airmen-brace-for-special-duty-pay-cut-in-2023/?fbclid=IwAR2wIGPCTD6WJroaKeB3bD9Cnn_4dRWBcfMXPdmUlPA3QfiHxQaJHLVqLBY

 

21 hours ago, pawnman said:

Can't afford all those F-35s AND the personnel budget.

Guess which one brings in more money to congressional districts? 

"They're cutting our pay/manning/etc. so they can afford more F-35s!!!" has always been a common refrain.  However, I always felt it was challenging to draw a real clear line between "more F-35s" and "personnel getting shafted," due to the inherent complexity of DoD budgeting

That article however has this gem from Air Force Vice Chief of Staff Gen. David Allvin:

Allvin acknowledged that officials do “lose touch” with the needs of everyday airmen in the process of crafting future budgets.

“We carve out little bits of money here and there to afford that next F-35, or to be able to do that development and testing here. But that doesn’t resonate very well,” he said. “We all have work to do to understand the impact on recruiting and retention.”

Ultimately, Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop, et al, all have highly paid lobbyists on Capitol Hill, looking out for those companies, working to keep the money flowing.  There is something like 325k people on active duty in the Air Force.  Who is their lobbyist?  Who is looking out for them on Capitol Hill, to ensure they get a fair piece of the budgetary pie?  The answer is no one.  Absolutely no one of consequence is going to stand up on Capitol Hill and argue for less funding to F-35s and more to personnel.  Folks complaining about cuts to things like Special Duty Assignment Pay need to recognize these facts, and act accordingly.

On 9/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, di1630 said:

My estimate….You can cut 30% of the people with zero mission detriment.
Most of the people complaining are lucky they aren’t rotating tires at Walmart.

Some truth to this.  The old Charlie Beckwith quote “I’d rather go down the river with seven studs than with a hundred shitheads” comes to mind.  There are a lot of studs, and a whole lot of shitheads.  Would be great to better support and grow the studs, and weed-out the shitheads, but the entire personnel system isn't really structured to do this.  Probably more accurate to say the existing personnel system is designed to coddle the shitheads, and hope enough of the studs stay in to keep the wheels from coming off.

[StoleIt]

3 hours ago, Blue said:

Ultimately, Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop, et al, all have highly paid lobbyists on Capitol Hill, looking out for those companies, working to keep the money flowing.  There is something like 325k people on active duty in the Air Force.  Who is their lobbyist?  Who is looking out for them on Capitol Hill, to ensure they get a fair piece of the budgetary pie?  The answer is no one.  Absolutely no one of consequence is going to stand up on Capitol Hill and argue for less funding to F-35s and more to personnel.  Folks complaining about cuts to things like Special Duty Assignment Pay need to recognize these facts, and act accordingly.

Service Secretaries and Chiefs should be advocating for their personnel. Buuuuuut, those people also want a high paying job from one of them fancy defense contractors when their stint is over...

[CaptainMorgan]

SDAP is taxable. 

Flight pay and the bonus aren’t subject to Social Security. I imagine the same is true for all bonuses.


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[di1630]

Some truth to this.  The old Charlie Beckwith quote “I’d rather go down the river with seven studs than with a hundred shitheads” comes to mind.  There are a lot of studs, and a whole lot of shitheads.  Would be great to better support and grow the studs, and weed-out the shitheads, but the entire personnel system isn't really structured to do this.  Probably more accurate to say the existing personnel system is designed to coddle the shitheads, and hope enough of the studs stay in to keep the wheels from coming off.

Trust me…I volunteer my time on the support side of base to make sure they actually support ops. I walk into offices daily and wonder why we pay 5 people to do the job that one ops capt could do. I actually told the base commander he should cut 30%….he laughed.

It’s pretty much welfare disguised as govt employment

[ImNotARobot]

Reminds me of my favorite quote from Starship Troopers -

So what is this so called “Federal Service”? Parasitism, pure & simple. A functionless organ, utterly obsolete, living on the taxpayers. A decidedly expensive way for inferior people, who otherwise would be unemployed, to live at public expense for a term of years, and give themselves airs for the rest of their lives.