What's wrong with the Air Force?

[HeloDude]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

I've cancelled a few times when wx was technically legal to fly, both as the Flight Lead and the OPS SUP said go, and as the OPS SUP when the Flight leads were willing to go.  There have been plenty of times where it's much more prudent to not fly that day.  Realize you may have to do some explaining, but I've never once been threatened with loss of quals.  Even if I had, it wouldn't have changed my mind, especially for a daily CT line....lol make me a wingman only (twoop!).  If you said you'd have to "report it to the DO," I'd say sure thing, let's walk down there right now....hell, get the SQ/CC and OG if you want, I don't really care.  Once you've been a FL/AC/OPS SUP for a while, you start to learn what really matters and what doesn't.  I'm all for going out and getting some good experience/lessons learned, but there are plenty of times where, even if the weather is technically legal, the gain does not outweigh the loss/potential risk.  It gets even easier when you have the option to cancel and go fly that mission in a sim.

Sounds like you weren’t canceling when the vast majority others would have flown.  If you’re confident in explaining your decision to the bosses, then most likely they’ll back up your decision.  It’s those who won’t…and we all know who those people are.

[disgruntledemployee]

Danger41 says this was deployed.  SEFE dude is sandbagging, in his opinion.  And based on the story shared, I agree; Wx above legal mins and solid alternate.  All the facts and excuses aside, I would remove the crew, that was assigned to perform a tasked mission in support of combat operations, and call in the Bravo crew.  I would then put that sandbagging crew on duty desk for the next umpteen days to weeks.  We need crews that can perform ATO, ORM'd missions.  That crew would likely have a sitdown with themselves and express some feelings to each other.  Also, the other crews picking up the slack would eventually know.  Would they side with the AC or tell them to sack up and do their job?  I've seen similar and problem crews got the jist.  I've also seen a SEFE do stupid downgrades and been told that they keep that shit up, they won't be doing the job anymore.

That is all, out.

[Danger41]

Interesting takes and just saw all this. The most interesting part to me is the implication that asking guys to do their job is some active duty shit that the guard wouldn’t tolerate and it’s all about airline PIC time. Uhh…I’ve been in a TFI unit (fighter) and ANG dudes are absolutely not like that. I’ve seen those dudes fly in weather that AD guys would cancel 99/100 times. And canceling an airline flight because you don’t feel like it with no extenuating circumstances besides your gut when you’re legal to go? Good luck with that.

[Standby]

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

Interesting takes and just saw all this. The most interesting part to me is the implication that asking guys to do their job is some active duty shit that the guard wouldn’t tolerate and it’s all about airline PIC time. Uhh…I’ve been in a TFI unit (fighter) and ANG dudes are absolutely not like that. I’ve seen those dudes fly in weather that AD guys would cancel 99/100 times. And canceling an airline flight because you don’t feel like it with no extenuating circumstances besides your gut when you’re legal to go? Good luck with that.

I sat the position you sat in. For some reason, I needed to have a come to Jesus moment with a bunch of young ACs and CPs. They didn’t understand that being tired wasn’t a reason to not step. I asked them if the ground force and the helicopter guys that were literally AWAKE for almost 3 days straight, hopped up on an insane amount of dex, and coming back from every flight with LOTS of bullet holes in their aircraft would be OK without the air support they were authorized…and very much needed. Lots of light bulbs came on. Absolutely one of the most disappointing points in my career…listening to some SNAPs complain about getting to do a no-shitter mission with lives literally counting on their pilotage and having to “motivate” them to just get it done. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Standby

[ThreeHoler]

I once added 50 random points to the tanker ORM sheet because it was impossible to score over a moderate. We had been jacked around the clock for two weeks so the scheduler could “optimize # of missions so everyone got the same # of air medals” (circadian rhythm be damned).

The “ADO” lost his shit. I calmly told him I had every intent to fly but that we were so far in the sleep red that we needed risk awareness and acceptance at the Sq/CC level.

We flew. And the sq stopped scheduling that way the next day, putting most everyone back onto consistent (for sleep patterns) lines.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Sua Sponte]

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-col-donovan-tinker-relieved/

[Guardian]

Why the delay?

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

Why the delay?

I don't think the investigation completed until late last week. In the conclussions the investigation substantiated two instances tied to toxic command climate and undermining a culture of flight safety.

Some interesting rumors though that Wg/CC might be next for not acting aggressively enough to fix the mess. (Perhaps that's what you meant) 

Edited November 10, 2021 by FLEA

[bfargin]

So now we're mad that senior leaders went through a process to determine cause or not? I'm happy to hear that it sounds like he got a fair hearing/process. Yeah I know he appeared to blame crews for inappropriate scheduling, but I'd rather see a slight delay than a knee jerk immediate firing without seeing the whole picture. And before anyone gives me grief, know that usually a quick no-thought reaction produces the best long term results.💩

Edited November 10, 2021 by bfargin

[Bode]

Why the delay?

To investigate? Maybe? Actually do something the right way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[guineapigfury]

1 hour ago, Bode said:

To investigate? Maybe? Actually do something the right way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the correct answer.  I was the investigating officer for a CDI for something MUCH less of a big deal than this and it took me about 3 weeks to get the investigating training, do the investigating, transcribe the interviews, write up the report, submit it to legal for review, wait for that review, then finally turn it in.  Whoever gets the report is going to want time to review and make a decision.  If this case did a CDI, they'd have about 10 times as many witnesses as I interviewed.  Assuming the higher-ups wanted to wait for a report, especially if there are conflicting reports of what was said, this timeline seems within normal bounds. 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, bfargin said:

So now we're mad that senior leaders went through a process to determine cause or not? I'm happy to hear that it sounds like he got a fair hearing/process. Yeah I know he appeared to blame crews for inappropriate scheduling, but I'd rather see a slight delay than a knee jerk immediate firing without seeing the whole picture. And before anyone gives me grief, know that usually a quick no-thought reaction produces the best long term results.💩

No, it probably has more to do with the Wing Commanders comments that inferred his subordinates didn't even understand what a toxic command climate was. He defended the Gp/CC pretty heavily early on. In reality, he probably should have just kept his mouth shut and said "I'm going to have an investigation look into this and we'll see what comes of it." Instead he perpetuated this idea that there is a "good ol boys club" that defends the senior echelons  of  leadership and doesn't hold them accountable by downplaying their transgressions. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by FLEA

[HeloDude]

11 hours ago, FLEA said:

No, it probably has more to do with the Wing Commanders comments that inferred his subordinates didn't even understand what a toxic command climate was. He defended the Gp/CC pretty heavily early on. In reality, he probably should have just kept his mouth shut and said "I'm going to have an investigation look into this and we'll see what comes of it." Instead he perpetuated this idea that there is a "good ol boys club" that defends the senior echelons  of  leadership and doesn't hold them accountable by downplaying their transgressions. 

Exactly—so when is he getting the boot?  If he sticks around then I don’t believe much will change.  He’s sorry his bosses are upset, not because he believes what he and his team did was wrong.

[Blue]

 

 

[kaputt]

 

Who knew?

[Lockjaw]

Right, right...it's Undergraduate Leadership Training. I forgot.

Let's focus on, I dunno, teaching the kids to fly before developing them into GOs?

[Swizzle]

17 hours ago, kaputt said:

 

Who knew?

Perhaps 2.5 grads can fix MyEval then?...maybe they learned that?

[Muscle2002]

22 hours ago, kaputt said:

 

Who knew?

I’m surprised the general wrote the above in today’s Air Force. After all, in the spirit of inclusion and calling everyone a warrior, is it okay to say that non-flyers will never be CSAF? I sense many shoe clerks were triggered.

[Guardian]

I’m surprised the general wrote the above in today’s Air Force. After all, in the spirit of inclusion and calling everyone a warrior, is it okay to say that non-flyers will never be CSAF? I sense many shoe clerks were triggered.

Valid!

[CaptainMorgan]

Valid!

Maybe a bunch of shoe clerks will resign now that he pulled back the curtain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HuggyU2]

I now feel cheated from my UPT experience. 
 

Edited August 11, 2022 by HuggyU2

[pawnman]

This should help retention during the strongest job market in decades. 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/09/02/airmen-brace-for-special-duty-pay-cut-in-2023/?fbclid=IwAR2wIGPCTD6WJroaKeB3bD9Cnn_4dRWBcfMXPdmUlPA3QfiHxQaJHLVqLBY

[CaptainMorgan]

“We need a more modern way to be able to assess” housing and subsistence allowances and cost-of-living adjustments, she said

Easy: quarterly base pay, flight pay, and BAS adjustments automatically tied to inflation. Realistic BAH reviews (maybe not on a quarterly basis, since this would require more manpower) that actually look at the available housing market and exclude developments/apartments the Wing King wouldn’t let his kid live in. I understand this would make budgeting incredibly difficult, but it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the nonsense programs Congress funds on what seems to be a daily basis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

“We need a more modern way to be able to assess” housing and subsistence allowances and cost-of-living adjustments, she said

Easy: quarterly base pay, flight pay, and BAS adjustments automatically tied to inflation. Realistic BAH reviews (maybe not on a quarterly basis, since this would require more manpower) that actually look at the available housing market and exclude developments/apartments the Wing King wouldn’t let his kid live in. I understand this would make budgeting incredibly difficult, but it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the nonsense programs Congress funds on what seems to be a daily basis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That sucks if you guys (retired) take a cut in any type of pay but especially special duty pay.  

Flight pay was enough to keep me from going crazy when dealing with non aviators (low to mid ranking mx dudes were cool too).  It was a sanity buffer. 

[CaptainMorgan]

That sucks if you guys (retired) take a cut in any type of pay but especially special duty pay.  
Flight pay was enough to keep me from going crazy when dealing with non aviators (low to mid ranking mx dudes were cool too).  It was a sanity buffer. 

I was amused when I realized that as an O-4 with flight pay and a bonus I was making more than the nonner O-6s and below that caused me the greatest headaches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk