dream big Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep. One of our top officers in the wing got a DUI back in UPT. Played his cards right and bounced back.
Karl Hungus Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 That said (I'm just throwing a wild-ass guess out there), I think you'll be surprised that the WSJ or any other media outlet doesn't give a sh1t about stories headlined with "military officer thinks he's marching too much". "Military officer thinks he's marching too much", of course not. "General Officer abuses power/people/resources in a time of extreme fiscal restraint", sure.
ClearedHot Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep. Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT.
Azimuth Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT. It's not really incorrect when the original question was do "you" know of anyone... 1
hispeed7721 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 So... what if on one of these "resilience days" we had a mass breifing like in the paragraph above with a little extra highlighting the financial costs associated with it? Better than destroying morale with a cluster###### formation. It's edutaining as well. This is exactly what has happened at HRT in years past. The fire dept came in and gave a very honest and uncensored brief about DUI accidents (it vaguely reminded me of "faces of death"). There are a handful of people at HRT that I know of who've received a DUI and haven't been made to do anything other than get a verbal beating and carry on with their job (obviously paperwork/etc is transparent from the outside). Never has any individual or squadron been forced to form up/march/etc. IMHO there is ZERO gained from doing that, either in learning a legit lesson or true punishment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pawnman Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT. I don't think that will happen in the days of RIF and force reductions and crack downs on all alcohol use. 20 years ago, when this guy was an LT, you probably could bounce back. I'm frankly surprised that with all the other ridiculous dredging of skeletons lately that this individual wasn't removed from command for his UPT mistake.
Dupe Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) There are lots of people at the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and 60 Minutes that would love to hear these stories. If the IG doesn't work out... there are certainly other options. Actually, I think this very forum and JQP have done a lot. Simply having a publicly-facing vehicle to communicate and vent has been a great resource to commanders who are smart enough to harness its value. As an example, I don't think there would have been some of the senior-level interventions during the Force Shaping fiasco had it not been for BO.net and JQP. I don't think a Fogelsong can emerge as a MAJCOM/CC in an environment where blatant command buffoonery is now impossible to hide. Edited June 23, 2014 by Dupe
Cap-10 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I know a now GO who got a DUI when he was an O-6 and was PCS'ing to his new assignment. This was back in the mid 2000's. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!
ThreeHoler Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I know a retired 4-star who got two DUIs during his career as well as was consistently "escorted" home by SFS many nights while a sitting Wg/CC.
schokie Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I know a retired 4-star who got two DUIs during his career as well as was consistently "escorted" home by SFS many nights while a sitting Wg/CC. Is this the same four star who was a recent AETC CC who was a prolific author on leadership for PME readings? 1
stract Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 ahhh, G-Lo. Mess up, fess up. Rumor was he was on the dean's other list 6 out of 8 semesters.
brickhistory Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 So the apparent answer to the question "Is a DUI recoverable?" is 'it depends.' Be a fast burner with top cover, and, maybe. How public was the fcuk-up, who knows about it, etc, etc. Be in the 80%, and I think not. That was my observation during my career.
Cell Dweller Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Brick is right. If you are a top-tier, then you are perceived as being more valuable. Now, of course, one could question what are the latest criteria of "top-tier," but in general, the meritocracy favors the golden children. That being said, high strats also need to come with top-cover from leadership. I know a more recent example of someone who got a public drunkenness citation at UPT, burned bridges due to it, washed out, re-cored to a non-rated field, got great strats and a top notch record, but got the axe in a RIF. He never really had the top-cover from his senior rater or someone with access to his senior rater. Also, most of the "DUI and salvaged career" stories that I hear are from old hats who knew of other old hats from back in the day (nothing newer than early 2000's, post 9/11). I would say at this instant in time, a DUI is going to be a career killer until the manpower situation turns around, and the service starts talking about increasing manning. Right now, even if units are crying for bodies, the flesh-peddlers at AFPC are cutting because the money is not there.
Cap-10 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Also know a guy who got charged with public intoxication after flipping off a cop...this was after he played the military card and the cop initially let him go. In jail...over night...busted! This was early in the T-38 phase, but he finished UPT and is now a CMR Pilot. This was within the last year. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!
pawnman Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Also know a guy who got charged with public intoxication after flipping off a cop...this was after he played the military card and the cop initially let him go. In jail...over night...busted! This was early in the T-38 phase, but he finished UPT and is now a CMR Pilot. This was within the last year. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App! And he'll probably stay a CMR pilot until his commitment is up, at which point he will be passed over for major and invited to leave. 1 1
guineapigfury Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 And he'll probably stay a CMR pilot until his commitment is up, at which point he will be passed over for major and invited to leave. Lucky bastard.
sputnik Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 ahhh, G-Lo. Mess up, fess up. Rumor was he was on the dean's other list 6 out of 8 semesters. Rumor confirmed with the man himself yesterday. Failed 3 classes.
ForgotPassword Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 The peter principle sums it up pretty well. I think it has been mentioned in this thread before. Maybe even by me.
AnimalMother Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 Also, most of the "DUI and salvaged career" stories that I hear are from old hats who knew of other old hats from back in the day (nothing newer than early 2000's, post 9/11). I would say at this instant in time, a DUI is going to be a career killer until the manpower situation turns around, and the service starts talking about increasing manning. Right now, even if units are crying for bodies, the flesh-peddlers at AFPC are cutting because the money is not there. A dude in my last unit got a DUI in 2010. He got RIF'd the next year, picked up full time by the local reserve unit, upgraded to IP/EP, and promoted to major. Then he x-flowed to another airframe and got the AF to pay for his type and ATP. I'd say that's a pretty darn successful post-DUI career. I guess if you're trying to make O-6 then yes, a DUI might make that goal somewhat more difficult to obtain. It all depends on your criteria I suppose... 1
Hacker Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Instead, how about we discuss some ways to reduce ARIs that actually make sense? You never know...someone in charge might read it. I vote that we blame it all on "fighter pilot culture", and the solution be that we tear down and eliminate it from the AF. That worked with sexual assault, right? Brick is right. If you are a top-tier, then you are perceived as being more valuable. I think some of you guys might be surprised at how instantaneously Big Blue can take a fast burner and turn him into a zero if he dares cross whatever the line-of-the-day is. Today, that line is sexual assault. In the past (and maybe now) that included DUI. There are other hot button topics that cause binary "burn the witch" reactions, regardless of the arc the accused's careers is on. Edited June 28, 2014 by Hacker 1
Majestik Møøse Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 The peter principle sums it up pretty well. To summarize (from Wikipedia): 'The Peter Principle is a concept in management theory in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on their performance in their current role rather than on their abilities relevant to the intended role...The authors suggest that people will tend to be promoted until they reach their "position of incompetence".' 'Peter suggests that "n time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties" and that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence."' Yeah that's pretty much what's wrong with the Air Force. I've noted before that every leadership position in the Air Force above Sq/DO is filled by an inexperienced rookie. "Hey, you're great at this job, time to move on to a different one." 1
RTB Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Truth to this? This may belong in the "WTF?" thread. That's a serious WTF if true. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
SuperWSO Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 This may belong in the "WTF?" thread. That's a serious WTF if true. We trust you with aircraft, we trust you with weapons, we trust you with the nations secrets, but I can't trust you to manage a six pack of Budweiser. Thats clearly beyond your pay grade. 3
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