Classic Thread - Security Forces (SFS) Tales

[Guest harleyusaf]

Standard SF bullshit. We are professional members of the USAF, not average joe yokle civilian. If you see the same guy a week later with a broken headlight, give him a ticket then... why is that hard? And if a commissioned officer can be trusted with an aircraft and ordnance and killing bad dudes and top secret shit, he (or she) can certainly be trusted to print a new card.

Yes, you would certainly think so, and I agree whole-heartedly. However, as I've mentioned previously, the majority of times I did not issue a citation the person had the same problem, regardless of rank. The "Fix-it" citation does not get reported unless the individual does not fix it within 7 calendar days. The "Fix-it" method is a sure fire method of ensuring the individual gets it fixed.

When you were being "shown the ropes", was it standard procedure to apprehend an aircrew member in uniform, wearing a RAB, escorting two children that were 3 and 4 years of age, with weapons drawn, using about a dozen cops?

Or force a guy (in a flight suit, and obviously aircrew) to delete the photos on his camera of a C-130 that happened to be flying over the installation, while tourists take photos of the static-display of the very same type of aircraft only a few hundred feet away? I understand no pics of the flightline, but I didn't know the flightline extended into space as well.

No one denies there are certain security protocols in place to protect the integrity of an installation, and in fact on every occasion when I forgot my ID and/or RAB I did the right thing and went home to get my IDs or didn't enter the flightline. But I think much of this thread is focused on some of the non-sensical actions of certain SFS members.

My intention was never to defend the actions of the SF personnel who overreact, and I try not to comment on situations mentioned because I was not there. It is definitely not standard practice to have weapons drawn on an aircrew member escorting his family on the flightline, and I have no idea why they would do that. You have a legitimate gripe, and if you'd like to pursue further action by all means please do so. SF operate on the Use of Force model taking into consideration subject action. Common sense does not always apply; if I were to see someone escorting their family out on the flightline, I would go talk to them and explain the situation, but it was not me out there.

Choke yourself.

You are called SECURITY forces, not hall monitors. SECURE the installation... issuing tickets for broken headlights, pulling someone over for jogging without a reflective belt, monitoring the BX parking lot for someone parked over the line does not = keeping the base from being overrun by Al Qaeda or Timothy McVeighs

I understand you are upset with some of the policies implemented by SF, but there is no need to get hostile. I worked the law enforcement desk for a few years, and I can't begin to tell you how many calls from Colonel So and So (who is not an SF member) I would get about enforcing parking standards for the situation you have just mentioned. I've also fielded calls from Colonel So and So about enforcing standards for reflective belts and such; my intention is to try to explain why we respond the way we do, even though we may not agree with it. The majority of our enfocement standards are in response to pressure from the bigwigs of outside organizations. Do I think it's silly? Absolutely, but we do as we are told.

So, let me TRY to get this straight. RAM's are to there to catch the stuff that got into the front gate in the first place. Not for security. (my surprised face here)

Common sense goes a long way. For instance, I totally agree with you that there was a CS breakdown when you let someone through an ECP without a line badge (actually, I think line badges are silly and every military person on the flightline should have a 9mm on their hip, but I digress).

But when you play a game of "gotcha!" with some Amn who sneaks his gf on base for overnight nookie; WHOGAF?

RAM's are implemented for security reasons, so we don't fall into a routine. It would be pretty naive of me to say that unauthorized personnel and contraband always get caught at the gate. The only way to even have a chance to catch everything before entering the installation would be a complete search of every vehicle entering. Both you and I know this will not happen, or would even want that to happen (on a side note - the individual caught was on the barred roster for the installation and not someone sneaking his gf in for some nookie).

Thanks, guys. I was gonna say the same thing about why I didn't get a ticket. I actually thought that SrA had some of his own judgement. I'm glad I found out he's a bad cop.

Just out of curiosity, harleyusaf, how many people do you pull over for not having a PT shirt tucked in or for not stopping for at least 3 seconds at every stop sign?

And yes, I did print my insurance card. Thanks for taking an officer for his word.

I've never issued a citation for stop sign procedures, and I've never told someone to tuck their shirt in. Another story: I was the UFPM for my Squadron and I was administering a PT test on a group of people. One of the NCO's did not tuck his shirt in and was half complete with his run. A group of people doing PT were running in the opposite direction and noticed SSgt Snuffy with his shirt untucked. I noticed one guy from the group immediately turn around upon noticing SSgt Snuffy and made a beeline sprint for him. The individual identified himself as Colonel So and So and actually stopped SSgt Snuffy, during an official PT test, pinned him up at attention, and used roughly two minutes of time to brief SSgt Snuffy on tucking of the PT shirt policies. Long story short - the individual was borderline failure prior to the briefing, and was able to effectively complain his way into a re-test (which he failed anyway). Believe me, these stories go both ways. It is somewhat unfair for SF because we interact with the public on a daily basis, whereas most Squadrons do not.

As I've mentioned before the point of my posting isn't to defend the douchebagedness of some, rather to explain why we do the things we do. I'm taking into account that most of the individuals here do not care for SF, and likewise do not care for me. I hope some people realize that we are an organization of response from higher-ups, not necessarily because we agree with the policies, but because we are ordered to.

[Chuck17]

What a great thread... its like watching Shark Week or something! Sharks in the water, only a matter of time before someone gets bit!

Harley I applaud you for coming to baseops in defense of SF, just know that there is hostility here toward that career field, as I am sure is evident.

Much like financeguy, Im sure you will learn a lot about our world if you stay and have thick enough skin.

Chuck

[zrooster99]

I hope some people realize that we are an organization of response from higher-ups, not necessarily because we agree with the policies, but because we are ordered to.

If nothing else that was one of the more coherent posts I've seen from a newb on this forum. As stated above, I encourage you to stick around and learn something about how/why we think and act as we do...and yes, you will need to be thick skinned.

[HU&W]

New story to bring things back...

This morning I dropped my kids off at the on-base elementary school. From the parking lot you can see the road that goes by. Speed limit is 20, but in the school zone with crosswalk it is 15. I watched a guy drive by, he wasn't going too fast (maybe 20) but it looked like he didn't drop down to 15. Moments later an SP whipped through the school zone doing somewhere between 40 and 50 with lights but no siren to pull the guy over. There were kids getting ready to enter the crosswalk when the cop whipped through the school zone.

It may be that I just came from Europe where they use cameras to catch speeders, but I wonder if there is more danger from the cop doing 3x the school zone speed limit to catch a speeder.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

but I wonder if there is more danger from the cop doing 3x the school zone speed limit to catch a speeder.

You fail to realize that at 20 mph, the perpetrator could very well be in another state by the time the SF cops caught up with him if they drove the speed limit and exercised due caution in a school zone...

So yeah, 40-50 mph was necessary to catch the speeder. I would have gone 80, if it were me. Kids have good reflexes, they can jump out of the way far faster than you or I.

[sky_king]

I would have used the sidewalk as a shortcut around the other cars.

[M2]

I don't have a problem with the patrolman not issuing you a citation, however to be perfectly frank I would have issued you one....blah, blah, blah!

So, you're "that guy!" Not every squadron has one, but the ones that do know it.

Are you shitting me? You actually correlate not having a current insurance card from USAA (which is not the same as not having current insurance) with not having your flightline badge? Are you really that big of a douche? Did you post somewhere else on this forum about wanting to SIE because of some stinky finger you can't live without?

Seriously, the sky cop make a judgment call and it was the right one, good on him!

It wasn't like he didn't have insurance, can you see the difference?

I see you as being the same DB that runs after people for having their PT gear not tucked in, or getting all wound up because someone has their sunglasses atop their cranium in the chow hall. Hell, your sphincter probably flinched because I called it a "chow hall" and not a DFAC.

Take two steps back, do a sanity check and regroup. You are on the path to being one of those squadron commanders that no one respects or likes, and you’ll be a complete dickwad and do whatever it takes to get there, thinking you somehow “earned” and “deserved” it. Fix it now before someone old fucker like me runs into you and shoves your head down the toilet!

[skinny]

A positive note for the SF canine unit on Ramstein: After my truck was stolen then recovered last week, I thought it'd be a good idea to have a drug dog sweep it for whatever they may have left behind. Those guys were more than willing to help and called in a patrol unit to come to the kennel for a 69 second sweep of my truck. Nothing found other than piece of mind.

[lloyd christmas]

Let me set this up. I am at LRAFB but in the Guard. There is a four way stop that seperates the Guard facilities from the active duty side. For those that are familiar with LRAFB it is the intersection where the RF-101 and RF-84 are located. There is a cop that sits a ways away but can still see folks that roll the stop signs at the intersection. By the time he catches up with folks driving to the ops building, they are already in a parking spot and getting out of the car. We have a two story building and love to watch all of this unfold. We have had a couple old crusty LTCs just keep walking away from the SF AMN. Late last week we had one of our command post ladies get pulled for rolling the stop sign. It was suggested that we all set off our car alarms using the panic buttons on our key chains. There must have been 30 car alarms going off all around that dude in his SF pickup. He had no idea what to do and looked like a complete idiot. Not 20 minutes after this we had a mass email from the Guard SF guys asking us to behave and follow the rules on the base. The AD had obviously called them. Not 30 minutes after that I went to lunch through the same intersection and there were no less than four AD SF cars waiting in various parking lots with two more having already pulled somebody else over. Just goes to show how much time they have on their hands....

[StoleIt]

At CAFB we just got a rather entertaining email about how SF has been jacking up pilots at a pretty high rate. And the always entertaining "have to come to a complete stop at the stop sign for THREE seconds" ticket. Apparently the base commanders wife got a ticket for this...not sure how valid that rumor is though. I do think its ridiculous since they claim its a MS state law...which is simply made up.

Ton's of irony in the email. I will have to dig it up tomorrow.

[08Dawg]

At CAFB we just got a rather entertaining email about how SF has been jacking up pilots at a pretty high rate. And the always entertaining "have to come to a complete stop at the stop sign for THREE seconds" ticket. Apparently the base commanders wife got a ticket for this...not sure how valid that rumor is though. I do think its ridiculous since they claim its a MS state law...which is simply made up.

Ton's of irony in the email. I will have to dig it up tomorrow.

That's crap. I'm from Mississippi, and I've never heard of such a thing.

My first dumbass cop story happened the other day. I'd forgotten something at the squadron I needed for a sim I had, so I hopped back in my car to go get it. Barksdale has all these crazy oneway streets, or streets that are two-way but have no line. So I zip out, and at the intersection the road sortof widens a bit, and to attempt to ease into traffic I start pulling that way. Well, here comes the cop. Now I realize it's a two-way street (never driven down this one before). I'm sitting there at the stopsign and he pulls up beside me. I hear, "Hey!" and look over, and here's this tubbyass staff sergeant gesturing for me to put my window down. "You know you were on the wrong side of the road, right?" as I think "I did when your fat ass drove in front of me". I told him yeah, I didn't see a line. Nothing major, but it just rubbed me the wrong way (sts). Thought he could have handled it a bit differently.

[Spoo]

Let me set this up...Late last week we had one of our command post ladies get pulled for rolling the stop sign. It was suggested that we all set off our car alarms using the panic buttons on our key chains. There must have been 30 car alarms going off all around that dude in his SF pickup. He had no idea what to do and looked like a complete idiot. Not 20 minutes after this we had a mass email from the Guard SF guys asking us to behave and follow the rules on the base...

Little late to the game here, but that's F-ing awesome.

I'd like to contribute. This is fairly weak, but at least it's something. We don't have SP's here, but we do have the PFPA. The Pentagon Force Protection Agency. They are mostly nice/professional guys. But, like all cops, they have some real crack troops among their ranks.

I ride my bicycle to work. Once I get there, I pass a guard shack and use a combination of barely-used access road and empty sidewalk to get to the bike rack (near the 9/11 memorial). I've done this just about every day for the last year.

Last week a cop stops me with a "HEY YOU! STOP!" Love that one. Thinking: Cop, why do you have to be a dick? After I stop, he continues, "Sir, you know you can't use THAT sidewalk, you should be on the road."

I say, "Well, No, I didn't know that, and I've been doing that for a year. Now all the sudden it's an issue?"

He responds with, "Sir, it's a force protection issue and for your own safety." Huh? There's nobody around...EVER!! What the hell is going to happen to me?!? Is there something I should know? Whatever, I make a mental note: I hate that guy...

The VERY NEXT DAY I comply with his instructions and ride in on the road he told me to use. Yeah, it takes an additional 69 seconds to get to the bikerack, but I don't want to get scolded again. The SAME COP stops me again. This is the good part. I shit you not - cop yells, "EXCUSE ME, SIR!?! You can't ride on that road, please use the sidewalk."

I turn around completely dumbfounded. "WTF?(my exact words). Yesterday you told me not to ride on the sidewalk."

Cop says, "I don't remember saying that." I decided not to press the issue, he was carrying a sub-machine gun. I shake my head and ride off.

[Vertigo]

Four skycops versus one 81 year old man... guess who got tasered.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/crime/story/997863.html

Airmen from Eielson use a stun gun on driver, 81

FAIRBANKS -- Airmen from Eielson Air Force Base security forces used a Taser on an 81-year-old driver they say became belligerent after they gave him a ticket for going 11 mph over the speed limit on the Richardson Highway.

Glen M. Wilcox of Fairbanks said he was roughed up last Wednesday by four men.

An Eielson spokesman said they used a minimum amount of nonlethal force.

A criminal complaint filed in court said Wilcox refused to accept the ticket and sped down the highway.

"They waved to me and I thought that meant I could go on," Wilcox said. "They stopped me again and told me to get out of my car."

When he was stopped, documents say, he used profanity and tried to pull away from the airmen as they tried to handcuff him. Wilcox said he can't physically put his hands behind his back.

"I showed them I could barely touch my fingertips and they insisted," he said.

After several warnings, one of the airmen used a Taser on Wilcox to take him into custody. Wilcox said he was hurt and had to see a doctor for a bruised arm.

"It hurts like hell," he said. "I'm laying on the ground when they Tasered me. It's painful and very sharp."

Wilcox pleaded not guilty to resisting arrest and failure to stop at the direction of a peace officer.

Air Force regulations authorize law enforcement officials to use Tasers to arrest people who are actively resisting arrest or noncompliant with law enforcement orders, said Staff Sgt. James Stewart, a spokesman for Eielson.

The Fairbanks Daily News-Miner reported that Wilcox was accused of a similar incident in May 1998 when Fairbanks International Airport police pulled him over.

[AEWingsMN]

holy shit... M2 in the news again?

Edited November 4, 2009 by AEWingsMN

[M2]

holy shit... M2 in the news again?

Nope, but I was thinking that sounds like something that would happen here on Lackland.

We have tons of octogenarians driving around this base, and you do have to watch out for them when driving but I have yet to see one that could be construed as an actual threat to anyone.

They are lucky the old bastard didn’t have a heart attack, and I am sure Eielson will do everything within its power to cover up this incident.

I don’t care what the old guy did, they had no right to taser him...it just shows you how overzealous sky cops can be, and how poor their judgment is...

[60 driver]

The first article left out a couple of key words that make it even better.

FAIRBANKS — An 81-year-old man was Tasered during a traffic stop last week.

It is the second time since 1998 that police have had to make a show of force during a traffic stop to arrest Glen M. Wilcox, a Fairbanks-based Episcopalian priest and real estate agent.

Court documents allege that officers with Eielson Air Force Base’s 354th Security Forces Squadron pulled Wilcox over just after 1 p.m. Wednesday for going 11 miles over the speed limit on the Richardson Highway.

An officer, identified as a senior airman in court documents, took Wilcox’s license, registration and proof of insurance and wrote him a traffic citation. When he returned to Wilcox’s car, Wilcox refused to accept the documents and sped down the highway, according to a criminal complaint filed in court.

Wilcox disputes that version of events.

“They waved to me and I thought that meant I could go on,” Wilcox said. “They stopped me again and told me to get out of my car.”

Alaska State Troopers were notified of the incident, and the 354th “initiated a high-risk traffic stop” near 336 Mile Richardson Highway. When Wilcox, a former commander of the Civil Air Patrol, again stopped, he initially refused to roll down his window.

He eventually got out of his vehicle and was told to put his hands behind his back, something he claims is physically impossible for him.

“I showed them I could barely touch my fingertips and they insisted,” he said.

Charging documents allege Wilcox used profanity with the airmen. When they tried to handcuff him, Wilcox, described in court documents as being 6 feet 1 inch tall and 250 pounds, allegedly tried to jerk away from the airmen and used his body to push them around, a claim he also disputes.

After several warnings, one of the airmen used a Taser on Wilcox to take him into custody.

“It hurts like hell,” Wilcox said. “I’m laying on the ground when they Tasered me. It’s painful and very sharp.”

Wilcox said the incident left his arms bruised and he had to seek treatment at a doctor. He also obtained a lawyer but would not elaborate on how he intends to pursue the case.

“If I were their base commander, I would put them in jail,” he said. “Four young men in their 20s do not need to Taser and handcuff an 81-year-old.”

The next day, prosecutors dropped a charge of fourth-degree misdemeanor assault against Wilcox. He pleaded not guilty to counts of resisting arrest — a misdemeanor — and failure to stop at the direction of a peace officer, a felony. He later posted $250 bail.

Air Force regulations authorize law enforcement officials to use Tasers to arrest subjects who are actively resisting arrest or noncompliant with law enforcement orders, said Staff Sgt. James Stewart, a spokesman for Eielson. Regulations do not give different directives on how to deal with older subjects.

The airmen used a minimum amount of nonlethal force to resolve the situation, Stewart said.

In May 1998, Wilcox was accused of a similar incident when Fairbanks International Airport police pulled him over for driving with expired tags. Wilcox reportedly became belligerent with police and grabbed and twisted a female officer’s arm. In that case, he had to be pepper-sprayed to be taken into custody.

Wilcox said the truck he was driving at the time had an issue that it would not start again within five minutes of starting it up. He pulled the officer’s arm away to keep her from grabbing the key out of the ignition, he said.

He later pleaded guilty to a reduced count of disorderly conduct and a misdemeanor count of failure to stop at the direction of a peace officer. He successfully completed probation and more than 100 hours of community service.

Several people who said they knew Wilcox for decades wrote letters to the judge before sentencing, saying the incident was extremely out of character for him.

Contact staff writer Chris Freiberg at 459-7545.

To be fair, it is North Pole, Alaska - wouldn't surprise me at all if the guy looked like something from a Mad Max movie.

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

Dude...they tasered a priest???

Hell has a special place for sky cops.

[Spoo]

Alaska State Troopers were notified of the incident, and the 354th “initiated a high-risk traffic stop” near 336 Mile Richardson Highway. When Wilcox, a former commander of the Civil Air Patrol, again stopped, he initially refused to roll down his window.

I don't have a problem with tasering him.

[arg]

FAIRBANKS — An 81-year-old man was Tasered during a traffic stop last week.

It is the second time since 1998 that police have had to make a show of force during a traffic stop to arrest Glen M. Wilcox, a Fairbanks-based Episcopalian priest and real estate agent.......

He deserved it

[Cell Dweller]

Sounds like this guy attracts uppity cops. Is it normal for a cop to try and turn off the ignition if the violator is not compliant? Sounds like bad news to be sticking your hand in to someone's vehicle like that.

[PolyestherDuck]

One of the TSGts I work with got pulled over yesterday. The reason? A "proper" stop is 3 seconds, vice just a complete stop. I saw this discussed earlier, but is there a specific regulation that cites it as 3 seconds? The state regulation simply cites it as a "full stop."

[brabus]

I'd tell that cop to either produce in writing the "3 sec rule" or go fuck himself. He'll be doing the later.

[HerkFE]

One of the TSGts I work with got pulled over yesterday. The reason? A "proper" stop is 3 seconds, vice just a complete stop. I saw this discussed earlier, but is there a specific regulation that cites it as 3 seconds? The state regulation simply cites it as a "full stop."

I swear, if I get stopped on base for some $hit like this I WILL drop a "YGTBFSM" on the cop. I will probably get a ticket and that's fine, still gonna do it.

[BQZip01]

I swear, if I get stopped on base for some $hit like this I WILL drop a "YGTBFSM" on the cop. I will probably get a ticket and that's fine, still gonna do it.

2

[Techsan]

The other day coming back on base from lunch w/a few coworkers, I had to have one of the guys show their ID since I had left mine in my computer (regular occurance). The rent-a-cop at the gate asked to at least see my DL. My DL is from Florida & has been expired for about a year now, but is allowed if you are in the military.

He then tries to lecture me on how a valid DL is required in California. I then try to explain to him about Florida's DL rules for the military. He just doesn't get it. He then tells me to pull off to the side and have someone else in the car drive. Fucking moron!