Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[HeloDude]

7 hours ago, raimius said:

Curious what was the 11H rotary-wing rate?

If I’m a betting man, I bet it’s around 60-65%.  That’s assuming that HC-130 pilots make up 15-20% of the 11Hs and that about 35% of those pilots took the bonus.  

[Guardian]

What is a good or ideal take rate from the viewpoint of big blue?

[jazzdude]

What is a good or ideal take rate from the viewpoint of big blue?

The number used to be something like 65% take rate target. Haven't been anywhere near that for several years

[King Ranch]

Any rumors on next year’s bonus?

[Sua Sponte]

9 hours ago, King Ranch said:

Any rumors on next year’s bonus?

They're just going to pay for your ATP, Airline Apps, Prep course, etc.

[Bigred]

11 hours ago, King Ranch said:

Any rumors on next year’s bonus?

Took a quick search through the 2022 NDAA and I found something to the effect of ‘extending special pay/bonuses’. So, it doesn’t look like the max will change. Now it’s up to the AF to decide how they want to spend it. 

[08Dawg]

I’d like to think after bungling it spectacularly last year, they’ll course correct back to something more like the FY19 bonus….but that implies intelligence and caring on the AF’s part. 

[CaptainMorgan]

Given they’re doubling down on producing rather than retaining to solve the shortage, I doubt we’ll see any improvements to the bonus. With Afghanistan over, I could also see them adjusting MAF crew ratios again to “help” our manning.


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[FlyingWolf]

We're looking at the highest inflationary environment in most of our lifetimes, big airline hiring at the beginning of a long term surge, and omicron likely signaling endemic C-19. All on the heels of a dramatically poor take rate last year.

 

You would think an adjustment to the contract offering would be a no-brainer...

 

but who knows, maybe we need to fail catastrophically before we change.

Edited December 28, 2021 by FlyingWolf

[Chida]

NDAA just signed had this nugget: Reservist pilots to receive flight pay at the same monthly rate as an active duty guy, regardless of duty days, but first the services need to present their concerns to Congress, so who knows when it will actually be implemented.

https://www.ngaus.org/about-ngaus/newsroom/incentive-pay-parity-included-final-ndaa

[Scooter14]

NDAA just signed had this nugget: Reservist pilots to receive flight pay at the same monthly rate as an active duty guy, regardless of duty days, but first the services need to present their concerns to Congress, so who knows when it will actually be implemented.
https://www.ngaus.org/about-ngaus/newsroom/incentive-pay-parity-included-final-ndaa

I remember signing a petition on some GeoCities website (remember that) around the turn of the century.

The fact that reservists maintain the exact same quals but only got paid 1/30th of the flight pay per AFTP always irked me. I hope it goes through but much like expanded Space A benefits for reservists (which made it into the NDAA but never got implemented) I’m not holding my breath.

[CaptainMorgan]

It has nothing to do with quals and never will. It’s ultimately about getting a 24/7 employee.


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[Chida]

Yeah I could see them saying something like "well we paid you a whole month of flight pay so really you're now 'on duty' even when you're not on duty" and then this line of thinking goes a step further to be "on call" so that if "you're the only one" you can be ordered to come in to the squadron to do whatever. Active duty lite.

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

It has nothing to do with quals and never will. It’s ultimately about getting a 24/7 employee.

 

They get a 24/7 employee with the full base pay, ACIP is to incentivize staying aircrew.  I did have to laugh at this move because if I were a full-timer considering the jump to DSG/airline, getting full flight pay as a DSG isn't going to be an item I add to the "stay full time" column lol.

 

5 hours ago, Chida said:

Yeah I could see them saying something like "well we paid you a whole month of flight pay so really you're now 'on duty' even when you're not on duty" and then this line of thinking goes a step further to be "on call" so that if "you're the only one" you can be ordered to come in to the squadron to do whatever. Active duty lite.

 

Creeping up on 21 years in the ANG...as compared to when I joined, we've already become AD lite.  But I don't see the full ACIP means you're "on duty" line of thinking.  I can't even get a shot on base without being in a pay status...UTA/AFTP/AT/ST/AGR/etc.. are pay statuses, ACIP is not.  Also, we're also already "on call."  A recent example, the Friday afternoon before Christmas we got an e-mail asking for (by COB) specific reasons why we (individually) couldn't be activated for 502F state orders with a start date of the following Monday.  The Governor decided to activate 1,300 of the Air/Army National Guard for ronas duties a few days prior to Christmas.  We filled our quota with less than half volunteers, the rest were non-vols. Obviously, we could also be called up at any given time for any Federal activation.  

 

 

 

[slc]

7 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

 

I remember signing a petition on some GeoCities website (remember that) around the turn of the century.

The fact that reservists maintain the exact same quals but only got paid 1/30th of the flight pay per AFTP always irked me. I hope it goes through but much like expanded Space A benefits for reservists (which made it into the NDAA but never got implemented) I’m not holding my breath.
 

 

What were the expanded Space A benefits specifically?  This always pissed me off as well.  Can't take dependents Space A even in CONUS.  You have to wait till you're "activated"

[ThreeHoler]

I remember signing a petition on some GeoCities website (remember that) around the turn of the century.

The fact that reservists maintain the exact same quals but only got paid 1/30th of the flight pay per AFTP always irked me. I hope it goes through but much like expanded Space A benefits for reservists (which made it into the NDAA but never got implemented) I’m not holding my breath.

IMO, ARC should get the full ACIP as long as they meet the same requirements of AD: 4 hours in a month (OFDA creditable month) within the last 3 months.

[SocialD]

7 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

IMO, ARC should get the full ACIP as long as they meet the same requirements of AD: 4 hours in a month (OFDA creditable month) within the last 3 months.

 

 

It's not all that hard to do, even as a part timer.  Though ours is sorties, not hours. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by SocialD

[Scooter14]

What were the expanded Space A benefits specifically?  This always pissed me off as well.  Can't take dependents Space A even in CONUS.  You have to wait till you're "activated"

Sec 622 of the 2013 NDAA authorized DoD to create a comprehensive Space Available program. Up until that point the latest guidance was some sort of joint transportation Reg from 1994.

Everyone got all excited and thought “Finally! After 12 solid years of fighting alongside our active component counterparts and countless mobilizations we finally get to take our spouses with us when we get home and go back to being drill status guardsmen! Horray!”

But…no. It never happened. So even though the NDAA authorizes it, someone has to actually do some work and create it.

[QAZqaz]

So anybody read the NCMAS final report? I found it bored one day on AMC epubs. Here's a link:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fmilitary%2Flibrary%2Freport%2F2020%2Fncmas_final_report_20201201.pdf&clen=6750997&chunk=true

Chapters 8 (additional duties) and 10 (bonus improvement) stuck out to me. Apparently there was a timeframe for a response from SECDEF of 120 days, but I have no idea where that timeframe lands and as far as I know there hasn't been a response.

Pretty interesting read, but it sure seems we are going the opposite direction WRT the bonus. One of the best quotes “'Additional Duties. . . We have an instructor pilot trying to get a forklift license.' —USAF Junior Officer"

 

[Magellan]

22 minutes ago, QAZqaz said:

Pretty interesting read, but it sure seems we are going the opposite direction WRT the bonus. One of the best quotes “'Additional Duties. . . We have an instructor pilot trying to get a forklift license.' —USAF Junior Officer"

So when I was a casual Lt back before ORE/ORIs ended having a forklift license was useful multiple times as opposed to waiting on loggies or MX folks to move our gear, and it even helped during a short notice ONE tasker.  This was back when C-Models started coming apart and where grounded UFN and we needed to pack a bunch of stuff right before Christmas for a CONUS deployment.

Honestly, I think it would be awesome if all the Lts waiting for pilot training got trained to drive buses, fork lifts, etc.  Because then the ops squadrons can just go to transportation check out the equipment, use it, and return it entirely on their schedule.  Plus then it would be easier to screen for buffoonerous personnel before people bend airplanes.  If you can't drive a bus or a forklift do we really want to trust you with an airplane?
 

[tac airlifter]

I send guys to get all manner of licenses before we deploy- forklift, 10k truck, etc.  We go to austere locations and it’s been a huge help to have this capability organic to our unit.  
 

That said, I empathize with the overall sentiment that line instructor pilots are tired of being forced to add non-flying responsibilities to their duties in order to cover for an organization unable to generate sufficient support.  It’s true, the AF sucks at helping you.  If you extend your ADSC, expect more of the same.  Posture future plans accordingly.

[QAZqaz]

2 hours ago, Magellan said:

So when I was a casual Lt back before ORE/ORIs ended having a forklift license was useful multiple times as opposed to waiting on loggies or MX folks to move our gear, and it even helped during a short notice ONE tasker.  This was back when C-Models started coming apart and where grounded UFN and we needed to pack a bunch of stuff right before Christmas for a CONUS deployment.

Honestly, I think it would be awesome if all the Lts waiting for pilot training got trained to drive buses, fork lifts, etc.  Because then the ops squadrons can just go to transportation check out the equipment, use it, and return it entirely on their schedule.  Plus then it would be easier to screen for buffoonerous personnel before people bend airplanes.  If you can't drive a bus or a forklift do we really want to trust you with an airplane?
 

That's kinda the point of the read. Yeah I'm sure it would be helpful to have people that are qualified, just like it would be more efficient to have all the rights of a personalist so I wouldn't have to keep going to the MPF to get 3x orders amendments because they don't know how to do their job. The argument is, support doesn't support, so we take on more responsibilities or else things don't get done. Doesn't mean that's how our time is best spent, though. 

[ThreeHoler]

ACE is literally “extra additional duties.”


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[Swizzle]

9 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

ACE is literally “extra additional duties.”


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A.dditional/A.lternate -- C.ombat -- E.xperience, eh?

Future downrange hypothetical story...So...this one deployment I was a forklift driver, next a copilot, another a bus driver, and latest 'rote my own IPR/Personelist/Finance/CE/secretary/Comm-troop/Aircraft CC...what could go wrong besides all those passwords/login deadlines/currencies on an epic collision course culminating in ____insert your fate here (i.e. futility testing more with less, repeatedly)___

[Sua Sponte]

15 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I send guys to get all manner of licenses before we deploy- forklift, 10k truck, etc.  We go to austere locations and it’s been a huge help to have this capability organic to our unit.  
 

That said, I empathize with the overall sentiment that line instructor pilots are tired of being forced to add non-flying responsibilities to their duties in order to cover for an organization unable to generate sufficient support.  It’s true, the AF sucks at helping you.  If you extend your ADSC, expect more of the same.  Posture future plans accordingly.

Are you in a CRW/CRG? If you're going to austere locations, isn't that what they're for?