What's wrong with the Air Force?

[M2]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:07 PM, 08Dawg said:

Which brings me to another “wrong with the AF” point… we’ve got this ingrained cultural problem where a certain sect of SNCOs feel empowered to and expect that they can just run over captains, majors, and even lieutenant colonels.  I call it “excessive professional deference”. Sure, you’ve been in longer and I respect your technical competence, but the last time I checked, an O-3 or O-4 still outranks an E-7, 8, or 9. Don’t like it?  Tough shit, MSgt…go to OTS and get a commission. 

Not just in the USAF...

[HuggyU2]

22 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

... an SNCO wanted to call my bluff and follow me to the destination. 

Probably the same one that called us out for not standing at attention... and basically ignoring... the Afghan Anthem being played. 

[Sua Sponte]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:26 PM, brabus said:

Remind that dipshit this is the guard - we don’t subscribe to dumbassery like the AD. Go do something productive and mission enhancing sergeant.  

Uhhh, that largely depends on the Guard unit.

[brabus]

55 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

Uhhh, that largely depends on the Guard unit.

Yeah I’m sure it does, but it’s still a valid point nonetheless. I loathe people who try to make the guard more like AD.

[tac airlifter]

On 12/21/2024 at 1:35 PM, Sua Sponte said:

Aren’t you a Guard/Reserve Baby? If so, vastly different than being active duty. 

I was AD and as a Capt I close-door squared away an out of control SNCO.  No repercussions to me.  And even had there been, good.  Embrace it.

Too many officers use fear of “the system” to excuse their own weak behavior.  We’re warriors facing death, dealing violence and inspiring others to follow.  Grow up and embrace your potential is my advice to officers shying from confrontation for fear of reaction within their chain of command.  Do the right thing for the right reason, or at least be able to spin it that way!  Men of action shouldn’t live in fear.  Doing so is a choice.  Choose differently.  

Edited December 24, 2024 by tac airlifter

[pbar]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

I was AD and as a Capt I close-door squared away an out of control SNCO.  No repercussions to me.  And even had there been, good.  Embrace it.

Too many officers use fear of “the system” to excuse their own weak behavior.  We’re warriors facing death, dealing violence and inspiring others to follow.  Grow up and embrace your potential is my advice to officers shying from confrontation for fear of reaction within their chain of command.  Do the right thing for the right reason, or at least be able to spin it that way!  Men of action shouldn’t live in fear.  Doing so is a choice.  Choose differently.  

There is definitely a difference between moral courage (which is lacking it seems) and physical courage (we don't seem to be short of this) as you point out. 

[lloyd christmas]

A lot of officer perspective here.  I’m not in any way excusing the behavior of out of control SNCOs.  I can’t stand it either and I have to work constantly to squash it in my orbit.

I would add context though.  SNCOs are stuck in the middle.  On one hand, they have to deal with immature, hard to communicate with, uneducated and honestly weird junior airmen.  They are doing their best to motivate them, lead them and accomplish the mission.  Correcting the small stuff is often necessary to keep younger troops in line.  If you don’t, they will take advantage of you.  It’s like parenting.  It is extremely challenging.  On the other hand, they must answer to officers.  Some officers have fun getting under the skin of SNCOs.  See @HossHarris post above.  That is literally the worst advice I’ve ever read in dealing with a SNCO.  Especially, a competent one.  Relationships are built on trust and respect.  It goes both ways.  

If you want to have success dealing with someone who is correcting your socks or asking where your reflective belt is, then sit down privately and talk to them.  Ask them why they perceive whatever they’re doing as a priority.  You may be surprised by their answer.  And you’ll be able to speak to your perspective as well.  You’ll probably find there was no reason to “not be afraid to be an officer” or “pretend you didn’t know a rule existed”.  You just didn’t have the complete story.  If you find that a NCO or SNCO was directed to prioritize something ridiculous, then chase that lead down and have a convo with commanders or other senior leaders to get their perspective.  That is how blind spots are exposed allowing them to be corrected.  

Just the thoughts of an old crusty SNCO.  

[ViperMan]

Honestly, I don't see a big problem with the SNCO corps. I think the mass of our problems are concentrated in the junior enlisted noner / shoe house. I can't tell you how often I run into pure ambivalence about not knowing how to do their job, and their mid-level managers (E-5 through E-7) being accepting of this lack of knowledge / competency. Pick your support field. It's all of them.

Your one-off Chief policing reflective belts or the length of time you spend in a deployed shower are honestly just pure fun from my perspective. They're the spice of life.

[Majestik Møøse]

30 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

A lot of officer perspective here.  I’m not in any way excusing the behavior of out of control SNCOs.  I can’t stand it either and I have to work constantly to squash it in my orbit.

I would add context though.  SNCOs are stuck in the middle.  On one hand, they have to deal with immature, hard to communicate with, uneducated and honestly weird junior airmen.  They are doing their best to motivate them, lead them and accomplish the mission.  Correcting the small stuff is often necessary to keep younger troops in line.  If you don’t, they will take advantage of you.  It’s like parenting.  It is extremely challenging.  On the other hand, they must answer to officers.  Some officers have fun getting under the skin of SNCOs.  See @HossHarris post above.  That is literally the worst advice I’ve ever read in dealing with a SNCO.  Especially, a competent one.  Relationships are built on trust and respect.  It goes both ways.  

If you want to have success dealing with someone who is correcting your socks or asking where your reflective belt is, then sit down privately and talk to them.  Ask them why they perceive whatever they’re doing as a priority.  You may be surprised by their answer.  And you’ll be able to speak to your perspective as well.  You’ll probably find there was no reason to “not be afraid to be an officer” or “pretend you didn’t know a rule existed”.  You just didn’t have the complete story.  If you find that a NCO or SNCO was directed to prioritize something ridiculous, then chase that lead down and have a convo with commanders or other senior leaders to get their perspective.  That is how blind spots are exposed allowing them to be corrected.  

Just the thoughts of an old crusty SNCO.  

A lot of guys also don’t realize how important it is to keep the younger enlisted disciplined. “How can I trust you to fix a plane correctly if you can’t maintain other standards”…is kinda the truth for an 18 year old. A 32yo Major with 10 years of experience dynamically employing jets can (usually) be trusted to use judgment about what rules are actually important, but the revolving door of inexperienced 2-stripers working on your oil and hydro fittings maybe not as much.

Going from a flying squadron to one that’s 90% enlisted like an OSS is eye-opening; even if it’s full of highly qualified jobs like ATC there are non-stop disciplinary issues. “Do you want an airman that has a trend of not maintaining standards working ATC?” No…no I don’t.

[ViperMan]

4 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

“How can I trust you to fix a plane correctly if you can’t maintain other standards”…is kinda the truth for an 18 year old. A 32yo Major with 10 years of experience dynamically employing jets can (usually) be trusted to use judgment about what rules are actually important, but the revolving door of inexperienced 2-stripers working on your oil and hydro fittings maybe not as much.

I agree with this in theory, and it is true if you assume everyone is a mature adult, but I will say that in my experience, there is only one type of actual leadership, and it's leadership by example. All the other ones espoused in our AF trainings (inspirational, transformational, etc.) are all bullshit. Thus, it makes it hard to enforce a standard on someone if you're not adhering to it yourself.

[HossHarris]

13 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

A lot of officer perspective here.  I’m not in any way excusing the behavior of out of control SNCOs.  I can’t stand it either and I have to work constantly to squash it in my orbit.

I would add context though.  SNCOs are stuck in the middle.  On one hand, they have to deal with immature, hard to communicate with, uneducated and honestly weird junior airmen.  They are doing their best to motivate them, lead them and accomplish the mission.  Correcting the small stuff is often necessary to keep younger troops in line.  If you don’t, they will take advantage of you.  It’s like parenting.  It is extremely challenging.  On the other hand, they must answer to officers.  Some officers have fun getting under the skin of SNCOs.  See @HossHarris post above.  That is literally the worst advice I’ve ever read in dealing with a SNCO.  Especially, a competent one.  Relationships are built on trust and respect.  It goes both ways.  

If you want to have success dealing with someone who is correcting your socks or asking where your reflective belt is, then sit down privately and talk to them.  Ask them why they perceive whatever they’re doing as a priority.  You may be surprised by their answer.  And you’ll be able to speak to your perspective as well.  You’ll probably find there was no reason to “not be afraid to be an officer” or “pretend you didn’t know a rule existed”.  You just didn’t have the complete story.  If you find that a NCO or SNCO was directed to prioritize something ridiculous, then chase that lead down and have a convo with commanders or other senior leaders to get their perspective.  That is how blind spots are exposed allowing them to be corrected.  

Just the thoughts of an old crusty SNCO.  

The competent SNCOs are never the ones being a pain in the dick …

[OL Patch]

Haven’t posted in 4 years….still a lot wrong with the AF and CAF (carnivores for the youngins).  ClearedHot, Huggy, Hoss, M2……anyone know if Rainman is doing well.  Happy New Year!

Edited December 29, 2024 by OL Patch

[disgruntledemployee]

14 hours ago, HossHarris said:

The competent SNCOs are never the ones being a pain in the dick …

Quite true.  On a deployment, my guys and MX SNCOs had an outstanding working relationship, all in the name of gittin it done.  I don't think qweepy shit was ever mentioned between us.

Years ago in another unit, we had a class 1 drama queen SMSgt.  Talk about dramatics.  I once drew a 9 and showed it as a score card.  We later spoke in private.  The mental structure this guy built in his head of how a military organization should operate was such that I hoped he never made chief.

Overall, someone along the way helped mold the examples above and I do hope there are more of the top paragraph than the other.

[HeyWatchThis]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:34 PM, CharlieHotel47 said:

hey bros. Our leadership at our wing is getting out of control. We got a new wing shirt and he has been raising hell about morale shirts. The colored ones one could wear with a flight suit. 

Do any of you guys know of a memo floating around asking for a waiver based on a tier level?

I wish we could just bully our leadership into doing whatever we want as a part-timer. Hate to see my full-time bros suffer through nonsense. 

ANG tanker unit.... 

cheers

You aren't alone.  My reserve unit has a new brutal combo of a Wing/CC that still thinks he's in a tanker unit, a Vice Wing Commander who has his nav wings tattooed on his chest, and a MSG commander who hates pilots.....Major war on morale shirts, patches, etc, etc....  

We also have some "Top 3" enlisted board that is meeting once a month and they have taken the recent "WARNORD" about uniforms to mean they can now tell any/all pilots/loads that morale shirts, patches, etc are all banned now.

 

[brabus]

2 hours ago, HeyWatchThis said:

a Vice Wing Commander who has his nav wings tattooed on his chest

[ClearedHot]

On 12/29/2024 at 11:10 AM, OL Patch said:

Haven’t posted in 4 years….still a lot wrong with the AF and CAF (carnivores for the youngins).  ClearedHot, Huggy, Hoss, M2……anyone know if Rainman is doing well.  Happy New Year!

Glad you are still kicking brother.

Rainman is a alive and well, fully retired and enjoying life. 

[slc]

8 hours ago, HeyWatchThis said:

You aren't alone.  My reserve unit has a new brutal combo of a Wing/CC that still thinks he's in a tanker unit, a Vice Wing Commander who has his nav wings tattooed on his chest, and a MSG commander who hates pilots.....Major war on morale shirts, patches, etc, etc....  

We also have some "Top 3" enlisted board that is meeting once a month and they have taken the recent "WARNORD" about uniforms to mean they can now tell any/all pilots/loads that morale shirts, patches, etc are all banned now.

 

Vice initials would not happen to be MM?  lol 

[HeyWatchThis]

59 minutes ago, slc said:

Vice initials would not happen to be MM?  lol 

Checks.........

[HeyWatchThis]

6 hours ago, brabus said:

100%.......wish I was kidding.....

Same said NAV came into the wing and tried to demand his way into the SOC course at Altus......as. a. Fucking. NAV.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by HeyWatchThis

[Sua Sponte]

9 hours ago, HeyWatchThis said:

A Vice Wing Commander who has his nav wings tattooed on his chest...

 

What a weird way to visibly show people you voted for Kamala. 

[slc]

Lol.... flew w/ him multiple times.  The stories I could tell...

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, slc said:

Lol.... flew w/ him multiple times.  The stories I could tell...

[Pooter]

Heard recently that the parts contract for T-6's is so f-ed right now that a small fraction of the fleet is flyable. Can any UPT bubbas confirm? 

[Swizzle]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

Heard recently that the // USAF // is so f-ed right now //...//, confirm? 

FIFY

[raimius]

On 1/6/2025 at 2:42 PM, Pooter said:

Heard recently that the parts contract for T-6's is so f-ed right now that a small fraction of the fleet is flyable. Can any UPT bubbas confirm? 

It's not great, but about the same as the past couple years, it seems.