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Nice shilling for the Russians here. It boggles my mind that so many Americans have bitten off on this hunk of Russian hot garbage propaganda, to include an influential portion of the media. Covert support of revolutions? Sorry bro, but we unapologetically supported the candidate that wanted to make democratic reforms over the Russian lapdog. This does not equate to supporting a “revolution” and it’s one of the things I expect and want my government to do. Also, doesn’t Ukraine get a say in who it decides to ally itself with? Or are you of the mind that great powers should still be carving smaller nations up for their own conveniences? If you’re not into American values and all that, that’s fine. Just don’t expect much sympathy here.

Why is your focus point above on what Zelensky/Ukraine should capitulate on given that Ukraine has been subject to an unprovoked war of aggression that’s killed and is killing thousands of its citizens? Right now the Ukrainian military is punching hard and even retaking some lost ground; if I were NATO/US/Ukraine I’d be more interested in what Russia should capitulate on.

This was not a small mistake. This was a huge mistake. Maybe bigger than most people understand the context. Putin was already paranoid that he was the subject of CIA regime change operations. Now you have a sitting US President cement that in his head. Its not something the WH can cover up as speech diarrhea. This will get read into as more than a slip and its going to take a lot of back peddling to assure Putin what was meant. Put in context for a minute: Putin is a former KGB officer from the Cold War. He was read in at the highest levels of Soviet level espionage and paramilitary programs, including programs in counterbalance to CIA Cold War operations to topple state regimes. Also put into context that Putin already believed he was the subject of an attempted CIA overthrow in the 2011 Snow Revolution, when President Biden was Vice President Biden. I agree that I generally concur with the overall direction Biden has been taking us (Cold War proxy war playbook) but this was a serious mistake and we should not discount it as a simple speech "slip." So I will counter you overall point that no person's support of the President should become so strong that they fail to recognize when he makes a serious mistake. This was an either intentional or unintentional signal to Putin that his seat of power is in jeopardy and he should be taking measures to safeguard it. That is some very scary shit. Also, this is not the first time he's done this. His off the cuff remarks of Putin being a war criminal is another example. That was a remark that was completely inappropriate for a President to make and it didn't need to be said.

When the president of the United States goes off script and immediately has to be corrected via his own White House AND Secretary of State we have issues. “brilliant 4D chess move” LOL ok dude. Like the “most successful” AFG withdraw! You’re living in democratic fantasy land this administration is so inept.

Quit trying to hide in the gray area. Of course Ukraine wants to highlight its triumphs. Of course the Ukrainian government is not perfect. But the fact is, only one country is taking sovereign territory from others. Only one country has blatantly invaded a neighbor and is now in the process of killing women and children en masse. Only one country has cast aside all of the rules and norms that have allowed the world and the world’s economy to flourish for the past 70 years. The fact that Ukraine isn’t perfect should not make it hard to pick the right side here.

Completely disagree on it not being “unprovoked”. Ukraine as a sovereign nation was turning more towards the West, which in they should have every right to do. For multiple reasons they don’t see a positive future tying their cart to an autocratic police state, probably to include the millions of Ukrainian nationals that were starved, imprisoned, displaced, or tortured to death by the former USSR. Ukrainian democracy was and is the true “threat” (if there was one) to Putin and the current Russian system. Some of the news coming out of the war is an amplified version of what Ukraine wants the world to see and hear, but a good portion is not. The Russian invasion plan in its original form has failed. It’s true that the Ukrainians most likely don’t have the combat power to completely kick the Russians out of Ukraine in a force on force basis but right now they don’t have to. The longer this goes on, the worse it gets for Russia as they continue to bleed men and materiel for little gain. Since Russia is the aggressor here the bulk of the onus to ensure some “fog of war” issues where something happens that triggers a NATO response is on them. We (NATO) aren’t chucking cruise and ballistic missiles within a few miles of a NATO country. Holding firm to defending NATO territory is vital and I’m glad Biden is staying firm on that. We shouldn’t be acquiescent on Russia threats. As things currently stand I’d say we have little reason to force the Ukrainians towards capitulation on much. I’ll ask again, what do you think Russia should capitulate on?

This is capitulation to Putin, not a situation where both sides can claim victory. If Ukraine officially gives up any land, which they seriously need to consider WRT at least Crimea, they should officially be welcomed to NATO while the ink is still wet on that agreement. UKR is starting to turn the fight back on Russia in some areas of the country, and they’ve shed a lot of blood to get there. Brokering a deal where they give up lots of land AND and get banned from NATO permanently - that’s a slap to the face of a lot of UKR heroes.

Bro, the stakes right now are very high. It’s not good that the President is spewing off the cuff remarks that totally change the calculus of the conflict. this is no small matter. And it’s certainly not spreading “Russian propaganda” (he literally said it) your last sentence is total garbage…grow up side note it’s interesting that the vast majority of COVID paranoia people have instantly jumped on the Ukraine or death bandwagon. Very interesting.

You don’t have to wait long for “any small mistake” from this administration. He’s good for at least 1/day. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Back our regularly scheduled programming of great videos of what Russian soldiers should like either on or preferably in the ground.

I believe Putin's "off ramp" would be for Russia to take over Crimea and the Donbass, and for Ukraine to pledge to stay out of NATO. Probably some other nuances I'm missing, but I believe that's the broad strokes. I would have liked to see Biden come out and advocate for bringing Putin and Zelensky to the negotiating table. Russia has some claims to Crimea and the Donbass, so it's not outside the realm of possibility for Zelensky to capitulate a bit, and both sides declare victory and go home. Instead, Biden is bumbling around, talking about Putin being removed from power. Along with us shipping Javelins, anti-aircraft missiles, and other toys to Ukraine. Isn't this how Vietnam escalated? Lots of bombastic talk from politicians. We ship a bunch of weapons. Then we send military "advisors." Tensions ratchet up, until one day one of our ships gets shot at. Or maybe an airliner. One way or another some kind of "act of war" happens, and then all of a sudden everyone is committed.

Training:

What if the Kremlin says something about Biden that is true? Am I required to say the opposite just so I'm not agreeing with some villain? Just looking for clarification.

Why so? Overall, I thought it a good race up and down the list. Those pigs simply will not turn under braking. Catching a few people out.

Good video of some Russians burning in a BMP.

So you don’t have the expertise to say what Russia, the country whose invasion is turning cities into rubble and killing hundreds, if not thousands of innocents, should capitulate to, but in your first post you had the expertise to say what Ukraine should acquiesce to? At this point in the conflict, with Russia continuing to dismantle 30 years of Ukrainian progress with high explosives, I doubt the Ukrainians are in any mood to give up more of their territory. And I don’t blame them. I would agree with your point about Crimea probably permanently becoming Russian territory; the civilian population there is more sympathetic to and aligned with Russia than Ukraine. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/21/russia-ukraine-crisis-blinken-urges-lavrov-to-pull-troops-from-border.html Your second point is incorrect and isn’t backed by the reality of both the US and individual European countries efforts prior to the invasion to find a diplomatic solution. The above link is just one example of the US diplomatic effort to avoid war. Up till the very moment of the invasion Russia was lying to the world about their intentions; their military buildup started back in November. The US government clearly stated to the world what Russia’s true intentions were. Russia never had any serious intentions to negotiate in good faith as evidenced by the current war. Now that we’re right of bang, I’m of the opinion that a third party intermediate is the best hope for a negotiated settlement; the Russians lied to us for three months and our current diplomatic efforts are where they should be in maintaining the unity of the NATO alliance. Russia is not our friend or ally, and this invasion has cemented one of the biggest mistakes the US and Western world has made in the last 30 years. No matter how much involvement and exposure to the liberal international system and the world banking and economic system, Russia’s autocracy is fundamentally at odds with the Western world and its values. If we find ourselves at odds with Russia today, it’s due to Putin’s actions, not ours.

Some valid points man. The left is seeing the rubber meet the road on their green energy crusade…and they’re losing. Oh and it was always a losing battle in today’s time. Cheap fossil fuels was the only way the left could peddle their nonsense about getting rid of fossil fuels because it’s a great feel good slogan when the economy is doing well (largely due to cheap energy). But when people start to take a hit in their pocket books they care less about “green energy”…and I don’t mean nuclear since the left isn’t on board with that either. What’s hilarious is that European countries are more at risk from Russia than we are here in the US…and yet many of those same countries have not ended all economic ties with Russia. Don’t worry, it’s not the first time our leaders have screwed over its American citizens all in the name of trying to help people who wouldn’t do the same for themselves.

Tell me once where I have disagreed with anything you have said? I have repeatedly said Putin is a bad guy and Russia is in the wrong for the invasion. But we can still discuss what motivates them without discounting it as just straight tyranny…something about being able to better understand your enemy? And just because I don’t want to see our economy further suffer with what’s going on with Europe doesn’t make me pro-Putin or pro-Russia…it does though make me pro-USA. Oh and tell me where I am wrong with the media bias? And tel me where I’m wrong by not fully trusting the media after the lies they intentionally told to push an ideological narrative? Progressives love the binary Ukraine is good and is doing well (vice versa for Russia) because they were against Russia well before the invasion and are still upset that Mueller couldn’t find any evidence of Trump Russian collusion. The left also needs a scapegoat for how bad things are going with the economy, and Russia is their best bet. And as I’ve said before, the Lyndsey Graham warhawk types on the right have always loved a good war. Remember when Bush was labeled by the left as a war criminal for invading Iraq…well, it’s not like Saddam was good, so why wasn’t the left on board?

What do I think Russia should capitulate on? Honestly, I don't know. Ukraine and Russia have relationships going back hundred of years. I don't have the expertise necessary to parse all that history into something that's workable to end the war. I don't know what the right answer is. Maybe Russia takes all of Crimea, the Donbass becomes an independent state, and Ukraine gets some sort of Swedish-like "NATO-lite" membership, where they aren't a full NATO member, but still enjoy some of the benefits? In theory, we have a State Department that's full of professionals with the expertise to facilitate these kinds of negotiations. Normally, these State Department pros would have the support and backing of the White House, as they seek to thread-the-needle of promoting global peace and democracy, while ensuring global stability, and at the same time looking out for America's best interests. Instead, we have a President running his mouth about pushing another world leader out of power. And as far as I can tell, Sec of State Blinken has done fuck-all to help deescalate the whole thing. I don't have a crystal ball any more than the next person. But I'm concerned that our foreign policy of the last 20 years seems to revolve around spending our blood and treasure dredging up old foes of the 80s and 90s, like we're some movie studio bent on rebooting all the classics. We got Saddam, we got Gaddafi, and our war on Iran seems to be forever under script development. We've done nothing but break a lot of people and leave instability and chaos in our wake. And now with Ukraine, we're seeing a possibility of remaking the biggest 80's classic of all: Evil Russia vs. the Red, White, and Blue. Only this isn't some tin-pot dictator in an isolated kingdom. Russia has a lot of nukes, and a lot of economic ties in Europe and Asia. I want to see us head down the path of de-escalation. Instead, all I see is "Russia Bad, Ukraine Good," and other such nonsense.

Well it's been a whole day now and the Russian response was: Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov responded, “it’s not up to the president of the U.S. and not up to the Americans to decide who will remain in power in Russia." “Only Russians, who vote for their president, can decide that,” Peskov said. So you can stop having a meltdown over it. If those remarks were an unforgivable escalation by "crazy joe" Biden then this a a really weak response from the Russians. It gives credence to the theory that Putin only backs down when met with force vs appeasement. This could be seen as a veiled threat that now has Putin on his back foot, and is speaking directly to his number 1 fear. Therefore making this a brilliant 4D chess move, just like when the last guy went off script (according to the talking heads.) If it isn't an escalation, then you're just flailing about and raging at nothing. Feel free to change your story to "Putin doesn't take senile Joe seriously so that's why it isn't an escalation" if you want, but they had a stronger response to Putin being labeled a war criminal just a few days ago.

Don't forget about the bio labs and now nuclear research facilities

From 2020 unfortunately. Attempted to land on road system 🙂

So anything that even inconveniences Americans is off the table? No wonder people in other countries think we're selfish, arrogant assholes.

JFC someone keep this idiot on script FFS

Just picturing Jeremy Clarkson in a Lotus dodging a Brit Apache.

You mean like how everyone deals with China?

And make energy that much more expensive for American citizens? Not to mention that progressives want less energy from nuclear and fossil fuels, so that will be interesting to see. We need to focus on our problems at home before we start trying to be the salvation of Europe…who by the way is still happy to buy Russian energy.

No fan of Joe, but what's the alternative? To legitimize Putin and his ilk by dealing with him and in doing so tacitly approve of his actions? That'll just engender even worse. It's clear to me that Putin does have to go. The "West" cannot afford to deal with him in really any capacity after this adventure. Not sure what that means, but there is plenty short of WWIII which that can mean. For starters, we really should offer to be Europe's energy guarantor and take real and visible steps towards that end. Putin thinks the current sanctions are biting? Wait until he (and his people) realizes he's getting cut off from his largest market.

followed up by dodging Houthi UAV attacks 🙂

That's the exact feeling I had upon first reading. I was struck by how similar it all was to my "modern" experience and how its absurdism was present in my own experience. A passage (in reference to Colonel Cathcart)

Ho Lee Fuk would be proud!

I also think this year's cars are cool as hell. Haters gonna hate. But what's COOLER? Lewis getting knocked out in Q1. The weekend is already a success.

The book is by far the best. The original movie is also very good. It’s amazing to me how relevant the book still is as it relates to life in the military and the stifling bureaucracy that surrounds us. I can take examples from the book/movie and directly compare to situations that I have lived through. I swear I could write a “Catch-22 part deux…the desert years” with my own tales of pointless exercises, manufactured crises, administrative frustration, paperwork for the sake of doing paperwork, medical standards buffoonery and overall ridiculousness.

Captain Major! Yes! One of my favorite scenes from the original…

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Glad to hear the Captain Major is ok Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I don’t care what the media or any network talking heads have to say about Ukrainian freedom or democracy (and based on your previous posts I don’t think you do either). Why any adult with critical thinking skills would is largely beyond me. I think most people on this forum would agree that Ukraine is a young democratic state with serious issues regarding corruption and some press/information freedoms; it’s far from a perfect democracy. However imperfect a democracy they are, they are still one. And they’re being invaded/destroyed by a neighbor who is a flat out autocracy ruled by a guy that implicitly rejects the liberal international order, runs his country like a police state, and sees democratic countries on his border as a threat. There are very few (possibly none) democratic countries in the world that haven’t made serious mistakes in their past. The US made serious mistakes as we were developing as a country. My dad grew up on a Native American reservation so I have direct family experience with some of the ones the United States has made. I still made the decision to join the US military and serve our country knowing that we’re imperfect and that we make mistakes. As shitty as some things in America’s history is, we’re still a whole lot better than most places I’ve been in the world. From your posting history I’ve gathered you’ve been in the military a long time. In spite of some of the serious mistakes we as a country have made over the last 20 years, I believe you continue to serve, even though we as a democracy have had some struggles. The Ukrainian government is having to make some extraordinarily difficult decisions as their entire way of life and state is under threat of destruction. Banning political parties that support the destruction of your country may not be completely democratic, but IMO we don’t live in a black and white world. Assuming that Ukraine survives in its current state, history will probably judge whether the steps they took to preserve themselves we’re justifiable or not. I sure as shit am not going to be too critical of anything they’ve done up to this point. Make you a bet, if Zelensky/Ukraine survives, in 5 years (or whatever their election cycle is), if the Ukrainians continue to banish all opposition parties/there’s no or a staged election, and Zelensky basically becomes a dictator, I’ll buy you a bottle of your favorite. If Ukraine continues to work towards being a democracy and a part of the liberal international system, you owe me.

Funny, they let me separate without ever offering me a bonus. As for the pilot vs officer first. My ROTC commitment was 4 years. My UPT commitment was 10 years. So which one was keeping me on the hook for the last 2/3 of my career? And they are offended that (many) pilots see themselves as a pilot first. For me, the commission was just a means to an end.

You have to be careful not to become so anti-Biden that you stop looking at things objectively and instead just wait for any small mistake to pounce on and scream about how terrible he is. If you aren't careful you might find yourself accidentally spreading russian propaganda and Kremlin talking points simply because it makes you feel good to trash on Biden. Take it too far and you might find yourself more aligned with Russia's interests than America's.

This doesn’t really sound like much of a “democracy” to me. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/zelensky-suspends-opposition-parties-in-ukraine-with-russia-ties/

“For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power," so is this how WWIII begins...crazy Joe going off script. His handlers must have just crapped themselves when they heard that come out his mouth. My guess is Joe will not be seen out in public much for a while.

If you don’t think the vast majority of the msm (yes, even including Fox News) is biased towards reporting positives for Ukraine/negatives against Russia, then I have beach front property in Clovis I can sell you. Just look at the Trump Russian collusion BS that the media/progressives ran for over a year (Schiff supposedly had all this evidence) and likewise recall how the Hunter Biden laptop was fake Russian disinformation, during the height of an election…except it’s now admitted that it’s real. So sorry if some us don’t take what we’re being told by the WH and msm as gospel. And what you and other progressives/war hawks don’t understand is that you can be against Putin and the invasion while also not believing that there is only one side to the story that’s being reported. Hell, even on Fox News, Gutfeld (definitely more libertarian-ish) asks these types of questions and gets roasted for it… https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/greg-gutfeld-russia-ukraine-competing-narratives

Because Russia's invasion wasn't "unprovoked." We've been "poking the bear" by advocating for Ukrainian entrance to NATO, along with our covert support of revolutions in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014. None of that is an excuse for Putin to invade another sovereign country of course, but shows that the invasion was anything but "unprovoked." I'd love to see the Ukrainian military defeat the Russians, and push them back over the border. Would love to see Zelensky wave the Ukrainian flag as the last Russian walks across the border defeated. However, I suspect that here in the West, we're seeing a propaganda-filled picture of the war thus far. I think we're seeing Ukraine's successes being amplified, and their losses being minimized. Anything's possible at this point, but I don't think we're going to see a quick, resounding victory at the hand of Ukrainian farmers stealing missile batteries and and Ukrainian soldiers sneaking around with anti-tank weapons. Ultimately, I don't think Ukraine has the resources to mount a force-on-force battle with the Russians, so they're forced to use more guerilla tactics. Which is fine, and could maybe lead to eventual victory. But only after a long, protracted war. Meanwhile, you'll have all sorts of opportunities for some kind of "fog of war" mistake that opens up a wider conflict. After all, we've got a senile old man with his finger on the nuclear button on our side. Meanwhile, Russia has their own old timer of questionable physical and mental state on their side. The whole thing seems to be unfolding to leading everyone down the path to global chaos.