Negatory Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Your source doesn’t say, out of those that died, whether they were killed by conservatives or liberals. Your source said only 2/9 of those killed at BLM protests were conservatives. This is another straw man that doesn’t say who’s doing the violence. “Nine of the people killed during protests were demonstrators taking part in Black Lives Matter protests. Two were conservatives killed after pro-Trump “patriot rallies”. All but one were killed by fellow citizens.“ I mean, if you wanna keep staying straw man, I’ll just point to Kyle up in Kenosha bringing an illegal gun and killing some folks. The point is that both sides are bad. I don’t think you’ll convince me that it’s one sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 You missed the point. Both sides arguments are strawmans, and neither is more valid. Be fair. How about this sort of activity? https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order Here’s a GAO study showing that far right extremism/terrorism has caused more fatalities since 9/11 than Islam. https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf "Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent). The total number of fatalities is Page 5 GAO-17-300 Countering Violent Extremism about the same for far right wing violent extremists and radical Islamist violent extremists over the approximately 15-year period (106 and 119, respectively). However, 41 percent of the deaths attributable to radical Islamist violent extremists occurred in a single event—an attack at an Orlando, Florida night club in 2016 (see fig. 2). Details on the locations" (pg. 4)Can you point me to where in the 62 page document you are quoting?Also I’m not sure of your first link. What are you trying to show. Threats of violence aren’t violence. Protests that were carried out peaceably or caused no death or destruction in itself compared to what we have seen since Mr Floyd died doesn’t even compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfargin Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Plus Negatory is comparing mainstream democrats to "right wing" extremists who aren't conservatives. Talk about total nonsense. There have been no conservative groups rioting and robbing! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Your source doesn’t say, out of those that died, whether they were killed by conservatives or liberals. Your source said only 2/9 of those killed at BLM protests were conservatives. This is another straw man that doesn’t say who’s doing the violence. “Nine of the people killed during protests were demonstrators taking part in Black Lives Matter protests. Two were conservatives killed after pro-Trump “patriot rallies”. All but one were killed by fellow citizens.“ I mean, if you wanna keep staying straw man, I’ll just point to Kyle up in Kenosha bringing an illegal gun and killing some folks. The point is that both sides are bad. I don’t think you’ll convince me that it’s one sided.I didn’t say those dying had to be conservatives? I’m saying death is death regardless of who is dying and the riots supported by leftist ideals caused it. Not a straw man. Is that what you think I’m saying? To be valid it has to be violence carried out from one aide to the other? I’m not. Just said violence period dot. There were no riots supported or carried out by the right that I’m aware of. Fine bring him up. He illegally had a gun that he used to defend himself from some crazies that was within his right of self protection. It’s not completely one sided. But the preponderance of violence surrounds leftist groups and ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Negatory said: Now it’s on you to cite a source that proves that leftist “terrorism” or acts are worse than that which I just provided. Since 9/11 probably not much. But the entire Rapoport 3rd wave terrorism idealogy was centered around left extremist. Weather Underground being the most well known US example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 hours ago, M2 said: My father got a vote-by-mail letter in Florida. Problem is, he passed away over 14 years ago... Don't tell me there's nothing wrong with the system! Did you check a box on it and mail it back in? Did anyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieHotel47 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Did you check a box on it and mail it back in? Did anyone?Someone in China did it for the Dems already Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Homestar said: Did you check a box on it and mail it back in? Did anyone? No, my mother shredded it. Some people still have morals... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Best meme of the past week... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 A close second... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 This was a long but pretty interesting read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/collapsing-levels-trust-are-devastating-america/616581/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 It’s like a really bad divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Seadogs said: https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf You need to take an anger management class. You seem way too angry, especially after your guy "won". Fantastic read, thanks for posting that. No sarcasm. I love lawyer shit, and I learned more about PA elections than I ever wanted to. For everyone else here's what that lawsuit is asking the court to do - Quote i. An order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits the Defendant County Boards of Elections and Defendant Secretary Boockvar from certifying the results of the 2020 General Election in Pennsylvania on a Commonwealth-wide basis; ii.As an alternative to the first request for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots for which Plaintiffs’ watchers were prevented from observing during the pre-canvass and canvass in the County Election Boards ;iii.In addition to the alternative requests for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots which Defendants improperly permitted to be cured; iv.A temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction granting the above relief during the pendency of this action;v.Plaintiffs’ reasonable costs and expenses of this action, including attorneys’ fees; and cost; and vi.All other further relief to which Plaintiffs might be entitled. TL;DR - stop certifying the election; or certify it except for the votes we couldn't see and don't count the cured votes; and/or give us fees. It will be interesting to read what the defendants response is. This is only the claims for plaintiff, which of course frame it in the best way possible for them. Given the previous lawsuit outcomes in PA...I'm doubtful, but also not a lawyer so I don't know shit. For @Seadogs you know what's not in there? Thousands of affidavits, claims of thousands coming, or any affidavits actually. There's use of the words: "poll workers claim;" "one," "two," and "numerous" claims. But those aren't affidavits. Besides the campaign there's only 2 other plaintiffs. Even taking them all together in this lawsuit...not thousands of affidavits, or even claims. Maybe 20...maybe. Did you read it before you posted it, or just assumed it supported your claim? It's a good read. I don't think in the end they're going to get thousands of people claiming fraud, they'll get maybe a couple hundred. Now, is that enough to get the justices to act, then get a recount, and that recount push the needle far enough right in enough counties to change the outcome? WHO KNOWS?! It sure is exciting though! I've got zero problems with the legal process working it's way through. I'm following Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire on this one relatively closely. Question for the Trump supporters though, lets say these lawsuits go nowhere...still massive voter fraud conspiracy/stolen election? At any point do you accept the results? What if massive fraud is proved in PA, but nowhere else and Biden still takes the EC? I also apologize for the name calling, it was outta line. I voted R every office but Pres, and Attorney General in my state. The AG is too in bed with Big Tech for my liking. I don't believe we're that opposed in principal. I just never got the zealous support for any candidate...ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins. But there are red flags and a lot of them to be investigated. I don’t care who you are left or right. Part of the greatness of our country is the election system. And if it’s fake or corrupt then that needs to be fixed. Regardless of who wins. That’s a republican viewDemocrat is dispute for 4 years if we lose call the other side treasonous racists that need tracked if they win. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negatory Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville? Oh, doesn’t count either? If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose. When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Negatory said: Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville? Oh, doesn’t count either? If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose. When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do. You’re falsely applying a “double standard” here because only one side of the political spectrum was rioting, looting, and burning down cities across the entire country this summer. Incontrovertible fact. Widespread, affected people broadly across the country, not some one-off rally. Edited November 10, 2020 by SurelySerious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds? Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negatory Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Guardian said: What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds? Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president. I think that’s where you’re confused. Many on the left have lost support for the protests, especially after they have devolved to riots. I know most of the people I’ve talked to feel this way. Youre probably right that more dems would say they support protests. I don’t think almost any of them support burning stuff down. BLM started with reasonable intentions. But it has been brigaded into a shell of itself. Edited November 10, 2020 by Negatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Ok. Point taken. What about dems or popular dems (Michelle Obama) who support the riots or say that a very small percentage of the protests are riots and the rest are peaceful. I forget her exact verbiage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, Guardian said: Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins. That’s a republican view To be clear, you're saying if the lawsuits are dismissed for lack of standing, cause, non-procedural issues, etc., then it's still a legitimate election for Biden? I would suggest that some people on this board, and a ton in my FB feed, who wear that label disagree with that assessment. Where is your line for the judiciaries hand in deciding the election, especially since the Courts have been very reluctant so far to get very involved? 1 hour ago, FLEA said: This was a long but pretty interesting read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/collapsing-levels-trust-are-devastating-america/616581/ Fantastic read, thanks for sharing. I also happened to come across this, about some GI's taking extreme voter corruption head on. Book just came out about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) It's been made apparent that my time on here isn't as appreciated by my family as it is by me. Additionally, my daughter was directly exposed to COVID..so I'm going to hunker down, lurk, and take care of what's important. Thank you all for the conversation and different opinions. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I’m saying that if the courts say it’s legitimate or even if they don’t and a recount or adjustment happens and Biden still wins that he then becomes our president. Whether we like it our not. The proper system for dealing with the red flags is the court not the press or social media. Calls for violence, labels, or just plain hate coming back from the left because of it shows what they have on the inside. I’ll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 .....maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 How deep does it go? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooter Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 14 hours ago, pcola said: I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American? I for one have a negative outlook on all of those areas. Curious to hear other perspectives. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app Pretty much nothing will change for my day to day life under Biden. I don't believe that any president has much of an impact on anyone's daily life at a policy level. But I won't have to do daily mental gymnastics to justify the stream of consciousness Twitter rantings of an egotistical asshat so there's that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, Sim said: How deep does it go? Not very deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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