F15EX Going to KMTC

[GrndPndr]

Interesting interaction between Whitmer and POTUS this evening, with a gift from Trump?:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/macomb-county/2025/04/29/donald-trump-selfridge-air-national-guard-base-retiring-fighter-jets-macomb-county-michigan/83332234007/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJ-VKVleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFWRzNlUGtoS2lNOXJ1UkRjAR4U2ZwfOo_-YOo6KhCTIxANZ1qOtgugbUamFhqUfYAiiQlwfKN5wCApyHBkVQ_aem_hOGZv8sA4ZhAwrbCXOxQig

 

[Polar Bear]

Dream gig with Delta having a huge base in Detroit.

[Sua Sponte]

Selfridge is also getting the KC-46 to replace their KC-135s.

[SocialD]

I just flew a trip with one of their previous CC's and he mentioned that Whitmar was working a deal with Trump to get some new iron (he assumed 35s).  I was actually surprised they didn't get the 35 instead of either MSN or BTV.  MTC has local support and they have the Alpena Complex just 50 NM north, which is one of the largest airspace complexes in the US.  Giving it to the BTV and MSN, where the locals have a vocal disdain for the military/noise, with ok airspace, never really made sense.  I've flown at both and was shocked at what they have to do to keep the neighbors happy.  Of course I was used to have locals stop me because they were upset that we don't fly low/loud enough around their house.  Of course that was after they picked up our bill before we could pay for our lunch.  Love the red blooded Americans in the Midwest.  

 

For a good laugh/cry, google VT Digger F-35, that news outlet really has it out for the 35s.  

[bfargin]

The pilots at Selfridge have to be psyched to get the upgraded -15 over fat Amy.

[di1630]

The pilots at Selfridge have to be psyched to get the upgraded -15 over fat Amy.

Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[bfargin]

I was projecting.

[Biff_T]

On 4/30/2025 at 12:04 PM, di1630 said:

Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

For the fun times that come with a WSO maybe?  

[Orbit]

No WSO on the EX is what I was told. 

[bfargin]

There is something to be said of the crew dynamics when tdy (but not what Biff insinuated - I understood that’s reserved for the C models in Japan).

I was just expressing my long unfulfilled dream/desire to fly the F-4 and then the F-15, when the F-4 disappeared. I’m sure fat Amy has its capabilities but dang the F-15 is a beast!

i also realize the aviation gods who fly single pilot understand and benefit from the “crew” concept often, since they regularly fly in 2-ship or 4-ship formations. It’s always fun to share adrenaline inducing experiences with others. Plus it makes for some great stories.

[Biff_T]

On 5/2/2025 at 1:39 PM, bfargin said:

It’s always fun to share adrenaline inducing experiences with others. Plus it makes for some great stories.

This

[Smokin]

Having flown both with and without a WSO, I'd take the extra gas instead.

[Smokin]

On 4/30/2025 at 6:27 AM, SocialD said:

MTC has local support and they have the Alpena Complex just 50 NM north, which is one of the largest airspace complexes in the US.

It is good for a single squadron guard base airspace, but hardly one of the largest complexes in the US and I think it'll show itself to be inadequate for the EX.  I think the MOA is only like 40 miles wide which will be a problem and unless they can move some of the jetways the high altitude is too short for a long look.  Just off the top of the nugget of airspaces I've used that I'm pretty sure are considerably larger: the UTTR, NTTR, San Diego west coast complex, Edwards, basically the entire East Coast from Boston to Orlando, Berry Goldwater, Holloman, Gulf Coast, Hawaii, and Alaska.  And many of those airspaces are multiple times larger than Alpena and just the one's I've used, I'm sure there are more.

Overall the Alpena complex is great for A-10s, ok for F-16s, but hardly what the EX needs.

[BFM this]

39 minutes ago, Smokin said:

Having flown both with and without a WSO, I'd take the extra gas instead.

Does beg the question why the entire order was for family models.

[uhhello]

I believe the extra seat was for follow on capabilities of unmanned wingmen and etc.

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, BFM this said:

Does beg the question why the entire order was for family models.

I thought the only reason all the EXs were 2 seat is that Boeing hasn’t had a single seat version of the -15 in production for quite some time.  It was easier to continue the production line with the two seat model.

[uhhello]

10 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

I thought the only reason all the EXs were 2 seat is that Boeing hasn’t had a single seat version of the -15 in production for quite some time.  It was easier to continue the production line with the two seat model.

And that too 

[Boomer6]

2 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

I thought the only reason all the EXs were 2 seat is that Boeing hasn’t had a single seat version of the -15 in production for quite some time.  It was easier to continue the production line with the two seat model.

Checks. The whole BS spiel from Boeing back in '18 was it would be cheaper to leave the seat in what was basically the F-15QA, oh and also you'd only need a 3 sim spin-up..

[brabus]

The primary purpose the back seat will serve is intel, maintainers, etc. getting FAM flights. Good deal for those guys. For the AD side, the WSO mafia will win and they’ll put two dudes in a jet to get 1/2 the SA and capability…except for the 6.9% of the time crew composition that actually nails it, I’ll concede that does exist every once in a while. 

[SocialD]

18 hours ago, Smokin said:

It is good for a single squadron guard base airspace, but hardly one of the largest complexes in the US and I think it'll show itself to be inadequate for the EX.  I think the MOA is only like 40 miles wide which will be a problem and unless they can move some of the jetways the high altitude is too short for a long look.  Just off the top of the nugget of airspaces I've used that I'm pretty sure are considerably larger: the UTTR, NTTR, San Diego west coast complex, Edwards, basically the entire East Coast from Boston to Orlando, Berry Goldwater, Holloman, Gulf Coast, Hawaii, and Alaska.  And many of those airspaces are multiple times larger than Alpena and just the one's I've used, I'm sure there are more.

Overall the Alpena complex is great for A-10s, ok for F-16s, but hardly what the EX needs.

 

 

Ya, I can't speak to the needs of the EX, but I have no doubt the whiskeys would be a better option, pretty much for anything.  Of course it's not going to compare to the over water Whiskeys, nothing ever will.  I wish we could all have the Whiskeys that the NOLA guys have, but wrt overland airspace, it's right up with with many of the ones you listed.  It's 60-70 miles wide by about 150-160NM long if you utilize the northern ATCAA.  Much of it has low airspace to the surface (few shelfs) and most of it goes to 50k, an over water restricted for bombs (also connects to a land range as well, though not great), with ATCAAs to the west for tankers, etc...   It's certainly not perfect, but has fewer restrictions than many of the overland airspace I've used over the years.  

 

At it's widest, the BMGR is 50 miles with much of it closer to 40 NM and it's about the same range if not a little less, if you can get it all.  If I remember correctly, the north part of the NTTR is 150ish miles and you get to squeeze into the airspace north of the container which is narrower than APN.  The Yukon in AK is great, but of course we all get to squeeze into two narrow bands at X altitudes to avoid the airliners...  I've only used the Evans/Saline in the Edwards airspace so I can't speak much to that.  But unless there are ATCAAs I can't see, even if you get the entire Edwards complex, it's the same length of the complex.  I do think, if you get the entire complex, it would be much better becuase of the the width/depth.   Holloman restricted are about 130NM N/S.  I've never flown there so I'm not sure if there are ATCAAs connecting the restricted to the MOA in the east.  If they do, it looks like you're looking at 110NM E/W for a narrow corridor. 

 

I'm not saying it's better/worse than any of these, but it's just as big or bigger than some of the places you listed.    If you could get them all with no restrictions, then I'd agree that they're all much larger.  But when you look at the effective airspace that you can get on the daily, it's right up there.  Lets be honest, a vast majority of the squadrons out there, are only flying with themselves daily anyway.  

Edited 2 hours ago by SocialD