Recruiting Crisis: 9% want to serve

[RASH]

I’ve seen this happen a few times over the years about not wearing the squadron morale shirts, Friday patches, even the OG at Kadena is having Eagle Drivers not wear their Eagle Driver patches (you know, as their jet with nearly 5 decades and 104 kills worth of history goes away and they are all thrown into thrash). I legitimately don’t understand the impulse to take that away. Does anyone have a compelling answer? And I know most of you are rabid retards that hate the Air Force and are looking for any reason to complain, but I’m curious for a legitimate answer. 

Political Correctness. Camaraderie and Esprit de Corps are dead in most (not all) of the current military leadership.


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[herkbum]

Political Correctness. Camaraderie and Esprit de Corps are dead in most (not all) of the current military leadership.


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If you let them take away your espirit de corps, then they have won. Fight them at every turn.


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[RASH]

If you let them take away your espirit de corps, then they have won. Fight them at every turn.


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I’m 15 years retired, but still working with my community. Some CGOs are excited and motivated about their careers, but most are just passing through and collecting a paycheck on their way to the airlines. I need to find the “no more golden apples” speech on here and repost. It’s more applicable today than it ever was in the late 90s…


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[brabus]

39 minutes ago, herkbum said:

 

If you let them take away your espirit de corps, then they have won. Fight them at every turn.


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This. For you younger guys unfortunate enough to have dickless leadership, look up scarf wear in the AFI. I’m not joking. At least 10 years ago on AD when we fought the same shit, there was no specific guidance on HOW you had to wear a scarf (other than a portion tucked into the flightsuit) or what it looked like (color, logos, etc). Walk into finance with it tied up like an ascot with your Friday patch prominently displayed across your throat area, go for it. I’ve never seen so many shoe clerks have aneurisms - and the LPA provided little cards with the AFI quote you could hand to a chief and tell him to read in front of you. All in all, it turned out to be one of the best “fuck you” to the man campaigns I’ve seen play out. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by brabus

[SocialD]

11 minutes ago, brabus said:

All in all, it turned out to be one of the best “fuck you” to the man campaigns I’ve seen play out. 

 

 

Except you had to wear a scarf...  🤣

[brabus]

Totally worth it!

[Biff_T]

 I always enjoyed sporting ye olde leather jacket whenever I had to wear my blues.  Even if it was hot, lol.   That was my small victory, that and having good times in the Squadron bar.  I wore my scarf on Fridays too lol.   

[GKinnear]

RUMINT is command-wide quarterly open ranks inspections in AFSOC...just thing to cure the end-strength blues.

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[DirkDiggler]

44 minutes ago, GKinnear said:

RUMINT is command-wide quarterly open ranks inspections in AFSOC...just thing to cure the end-strength blues.

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It’s not RUMINT, it’s already happening.  AFSOC wings have TASKORDs to implement it, I shit you not.

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, GKinnear said:

RUMINT is command-wide quarterly open ranks inspections in AFSOC...just thing to cure the end-strength blues.

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That'll improve retention

[brabus]

I think I’ve worn service dress twice outside of SOS, and maybe a couple times there…in my entire career post UPT. And now AD is doing open ranks inspections, WTF is going on here!

[SocialD]

16 minutes ago, brabus said:

I think I’ve worn service dress twice outside of SOS, and maybe a couple times there…in my entire career post UPT. And now AD is doing open ranks inspections, WTF is going on here!

 

 

I retired having worn mess dress three times.   Once as baby class forced to go to our senior class graduation.  Once to graduate ENJJPT and finally for my B-Course graduation.   Mess dress was the biggest waste of money ever. 

 

Hell, after training I think I only wore my blues twice.  Once for an award picture, I wore my top only and had to pull my captain rank off my hat since my jacket still had 1Lt rank on it.  Damn PA chick took a zoomed out pic of me with blues top and flight suit bottom, then sent it to the SQ/CC and mayor for blackmail.   The other time was when a douche canoe at state required blues to interview for O-5.  My ribbon rack is still the same as when I was a SSgt. An open ranks in my old squadron would be hilarity. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by SocialD

[brabus]

Last time I wore blues was for the O-5 interview, still had Capt rank on them from SOS,  and my shoe soles literally disintegrated as I walked out the door. Electrical taped them together and pressed - I don’t think anyone noticed!    

[tac airlifter]

3 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

It’s not RUMINT, it’s already happening.  AFSOC wings have TASKORDs to implement it, I shit you not.

How the mighty have fallen.

B3 has turned warriors into clowns.

[jice]

4 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

It’s not RUMINT, it’s already happening.  AFSOC wings have TASKORDs to implement it, I shit you not.

I can’t think of a better excuse for an officer to piss their pants in public than this.

[SocialD]

Remember when all the heavy drivers were excited because we got a non-fighter CSAF...then the first thing he did was implement blues Monday?  Fuckin' clown!  Sounds like this dude took a page of Norty's book and stepped it up.  Thankfully escaped blues Monday because we could always be thrown on the schedule.  

[brabus]

I remember wearing blues one Monday when it first started because “they” took a hard stand on not on schedule = blues. Walked into squadron to immediately be told by the DO I was flying because another guy was sick. Too bad my flightsuit was at home. We took off about 45 min late and the policy changed that day - no more pilots wore blues at our base. It was a great “we told you so” moment to upper management (disclaimer: this was in my AD days, but that should probably go without saying). 

Edited August 3, 2023 by brabus

[Blue]

Man, I'll go against the grain here......

Blues are military uniforms that you are required to maintain in serviceable condition.  O's are required to maintain mess dress as well, I think the E's have something different (not required to own a mess dress, but "encouraged" for NCOs and above, as I recall).

A quarterly inspection of a required uniform doesn't strike me as overly intrusive.  Annoying, sure.  But not a hill to die on.

Like many of the annoying things that are unique to the military, the trick is in the implementation.  A good boss will mandate the open ranks inspection on a Friday morning from 0900 - 0930.  Designate a couple of sharp NCO's and O's to quickly go through the ranks, ding people appropriately for uniforms that aren't up to standards.  Quick couple of words from the boss saying thanks for the effort, and everyone dismissed early to begin the weekend NLT 1000.

Good bosses will do something inline with the above.  Meet the requirements of the order from above, while still being reasonable about the implementation.

Shitty bosses will have it be 0800 on a random Tuesday, with expectations for the rest of the duty day to continue uninterrupted, with no consideration for the underlying logistics (blues vs duty uniform, etc).

[arg]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

I remember wearing blues one Monday when it first started because “they” took a hard stand on not on schedule = blues. Walked into squadron to immediately be told by the DO I was flying because another guy was sick. Too bad my flightsuit was at home. We took off about 45 min late and the policy changed that day - no more pilots wore blues at our base. It was a great “we told you so” moment to upper management (disclaimer: this was in my AD days, but that should probably go without saying). 

Chang would tell you to bring your flight gear while wearing blues. 
I’m learning this type of leadership style from his posts

[DirkDiggler]

13 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

How the mighty have fallen.

B3 has turned warriors into clowns.

It’s real stupid, that’s for sure.  The memo itself was real aggravating to read, HQ reaching into Sqs like that.

  That being said, in my corner of AFSOC, leadership is trying to meet the bare minimum intent so as to not pile more shit on everyone’s already overflowing plates.  I also don’t think AFSOC has turned into a bunch of clowns (at least not yet).  We’re still able to go out and execute, directly validated just a couple months ago.

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

words

bro I think you might be biased here

[ClearedHot]

15 hours ago, brabus said:

Last time I wore blues was for the O-5 interview, still had Capt rank on them from SOS,  and my shoe soles literally disintegrated as I walked out the door. Electrical taped them together and pressed - I don’t think anyone noticed!    

Story time...

Pops once told me about the old days when all the F-4 units in Europe would rotate down to Wheelus AFB Libya for desert bombing and gunnery training.  The first base to arrive would typically load up beer, ice and bbq items and roll down to the beach to watch jets from the different bases arrive and prep for a 1st night beach party.  On one deployment my dad had a new guy in the back seat and having had a nice tailwind on the way down he arrived with a lot of extra gas.  He decided to give the new a quick "area fam" which was just an excuse to do an airshow over the beach while the bros set up the grill and "graded" his performance. 

When he landed the deployed commander was waiting for him as he shutdown and said "you are directed to report to the Wing/CC's office tomorrow at 0700 in your Class A uniform.  Back then you were always supposed to have your Class As with you but for some reason his was back in the office at Bitburg....oops.  My dad was a large dude and there was only one other bigger dude that bothered to bring his uniform and this guy was 6'6".  My dad said he had to fold the jacket up on the inside and pin the sleeves, same with the bottom of the pants.  He was the Squadron Patch at this point and helped start the Fast Fac program when he was in Vietnam with the Triple Nickel so most of the leadership at other bases knew who he was, including the Wheelus Wing King.   My dad had five DFCs at this point but the owner of the uniform was newer and had not completed a Vietnam tour so his ribbons were a bit "sparse" which the Wing King immediately noticed and make a snide remark about.  Over the next few minutes the Wing King very loudly chewed his ass.  The base had some sort of conference center and senior officers often would rotate down for conferences.  As luck would have it some senior Navy Admirals were there for a conference and had their wives in tow...  Unknowingly pops flew right over their outdoor social at 50' pushing 600 knots. Pops said he took the ass chewing and was dismissed so he turned to leave...as he got to the door the Wing King said "Stop!", then with his back turned said "DAMN FINE Flying!!!...now get out of here."

He never heard another word about the event except from all the bros that were at the beach that day.

[tac airlifter]

3 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

It’s real stupid, that’s for sure.  The memo itself was real aggravating to read, HQ reaching into Sqs like that.

  That being said, in my corner of AFSOC, leadership is trying to meet the bare minimum intent so as to not pile more shit on everyone’s already overflowing plates.  I also don’t think AFSOC has turned into a bunch of clowns (at least not yet).  We’re still able to go out and execute, directly validated just a couple months ago.

Valid, AFSOC is not a clown organization & I should have worded that better.

I just hate mandatory service dress, PTSD from post-deployment blues Monday.

[brabus]

@ClearedHot I wish I could meet your dad over a bottle of scotch…bet he has some badass stories!

 

[Pooter]

14 hours ago, Blue said:

Man, I'll go against the grain here......

Blues are military uniforms that you are required to maintain in serviceable condition.  O's are required to maintain mess dress as well, I think the E's have something different (not required to own a mess dress, but "encouraged" for NCOs and above, as I recall).

A quarterly inspection of a required uniform doesn't strike me as overly intrusive.  Annoying, sure.  But not a hill to die on.

Like many of the annoying things that are unique to the military, the trick is in the implementation.  A good boss will mandate the open ranks inspection on a Friday morning from 0900 - 0930.  Designate a couple of sharp NCO's and O's to quickly go through the ranks, ding people appropriately for uniforms that aren't up to standards.  Quick couple of words from the boss saying thanks for the effort, and everyone dismissed early to begin the weekend NLT 1000.

Good bosses will do something inline with the above.  Meet the requirements of the order from above, while still being reasonable about the implementation.

Shitty bosses will have it be 0800 on a random Tuesday, with expectations for the rest of the duty day to continue uninterrupted, with no consideration for the underlying logistics (blues vs duty uniform, etc).

None of what you said is wrong but I lean more toward "treat people like adults until they give you a reason not to."

Periodic inspections are onerous and a waste of time unless you're specifically having dress and appearance issues in the unit. If dudes are coming in with dirty, torn up flight suits, unshaven, and with hair out of regs, then maybe it's time for a blues day. But only for those specific individuals and only for as long as it takes to fix the problem. 
 

The uniform is a tool to teach attention to detail, unit cohesion, and pride in your appearance.  Much like other silly things you get reamed for in boot camp, its importance wanes massively once you get real responsibilities.  Years of training later into the fast jet business, dress and appearance should be a given.  Not something you need to periodically spot check. 
 

If you trust people to fly multi million dollar supersonic aircraft, you should trust that their uniforms are in order.. unless they specifically give you a reason to think otherwise.