Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, TreeA10 said:

Reminds me of laws or signs stating "Gun Free Zone.". Yeah, right.  I'm sure some criminal type bent on criminal activity came across one of those signs and turned around because the sign said no guns.  

If someone is going to do something war or terrorist like with a drone, they don't care about your laws, signs, etc.

That's an oversimplification. If guns are 100% illegal in all circumstances, then anyone with a gun is by definition a criminal and can be engaged accordingly. That makes things vastly simpler from a defensive/law enforcement perspective. It would absolutely, positively reduce the number of mass murders, gang killings, and other firearms associated fatalities. Those numbers are very obviously shown in countries that have outright bans on firearms. 

 

I'm completely against that position, but trying to boil it down to "the bad guys will have it anyways" is excessively simplistic.

 

This applies even more so to drones. It is simply easier to do something illegal with a tool that is legal than it is to do with an illegal tool. If we go so far as to say that civilian drone ownership is illegal, then the ROE for drones gets very simple very fast. See it, shoot it.

 

I'm against making guns illegal because I believe in the core premise of the second amendment. The risk of government-induced tyranny is far worse than the loss of life associated with the legalization of firearms. I do not believe that premise extends to drones. 

 

I'm also not advocating for making drones illegal (haven't given it enough thought), but it's a hyper-libertarian argument to say that "bad guys will have it anyways" and almost every hyper-libertarian argument collapses upon contact with reality.

[HeloDude]

48 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

That's an oversimplification. If guns are 100% illegal in all circumstances, then anyone with a gun is by definition a criminal and can be engaged accordingly. That makes things vastly simpler from a defensive/law enforcement perspective. It would absolutely, positively reduce the number of mass murders, gang killings, and other firearms associated fatalities. Those numbers are very obviously shown in countries that have outright bans on firearms. 

War on drugs…pretty sure it was still relatively easy to get drugs 

[Lawman]

War on drugs…pretty sure it was still relatively easy to get drugs 

Yes, however nobody was confused that you may or may not be holding cocaine legally.

That’s the premise with highly regulating a commercial substance, same reason while criminals can get hand grenades or fertilizer, they can’t just walk into any old shop and go and acquire it, nor would an attempt to buy 1000lbs of certain precursor chemicals go unnoticed.

If drones were turned into a highly regulated item, the guy trying to walk one to a sporting event would stick out pretty well.


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[Clark Griswold]

8 hours ago, raimius said:

Airspace rules, yes, as it would give greater authority to disable offending drones.

Operator certificates and transponders?  Nah, all that really does is add an extra civil fine/misdemeanor the DOJ can impose after someone conducts an act of war/terrorism.  Not effective deterrence.

Respectfully disagree 

The registration and other admin is to distinguish legitimate drones from nefarious ones, if a legitimately registered drone is used for ill, the transponder tied to a certificate is to give a starting point for the investigation.  

I could probably come up with more but eventually I’d start arguing for a Scorpion jet purchase to protect us against rogue drones so let’s just call it bygones 

Break Break 

Sabotage in Sweden 

https://www.newsweek.com/nato-ally-reveals-mass-act-unexplained-sabotage-2081784

 

[uhhello]

7 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Respectfully disagree 

The registration and other admin is to distinguish legitimate drones from nefarious ones, if a legitimately registered drone is used for ill, the transponder tied to a certificate is to give a starting point for the investigation.  

I could probably come up with more but eventually I’d start arguing for a Scorpion jet purchase to protect us against rogue drones so let’s just call it bygones 

Break Break 

Sabotage in Sweden 

https://www.newsweek.com/nato-ally-reveals-mass-act-unexplained-sabotage-2081784

 

We're not discussing this in the realm of follow on investigations.  If this is used, the nation won't be worried about investigations.  It will be very clear who and why.  

[Clark Griswold]

We're not discussing this in the realm of follow on investigations.  If this is used, the nation won't be worried about investigations.  It will be very clear who and why.  

Maybe maybe not, depending on the size and scale, an op like the ones the Ukrainians just did yes, a single attack like an assignation probably not


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[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

War on drugs…pretty sure it was still relatively easy to get drugs 

Yup. But since not everything in the universe is correlated to everything else in the universe, I'll need you to expand a little bit more. 

 

There are also examples of countries that severely punish drug use, and as such have wildly lower usage rates. Again, that's not me endorsing the punishment, but to deny the reality that it *can* be controlled is silly. 

 

And there's a whole separate conversation about whether or not something becomes pointless just because it cannot be pursued to perfection. Just because you *can* get meth doesn't mean we should legalize it. Fewer meth heads is a societal good. But we can start another thread on the inanity of libertarian purism if we want to continue that discussion.

[BashiChuni]

How about no

[disgruntledemployee]

Well UKR is jumping deeper into remotes/robotics.  The AI Battle Bot with guns has arrived on the battlefield. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-made-m2-ma-deuce-125257292.html

[ClearedHot]

On 6/20/2025 at 6:57 PM, BashiChuni said:

How about no

There is some context to his statement.  Economically Russia is on the ropes, additional sanctions (which I support), could be the tipping point.  While their military is viewed as a peer adversary, Russia's economy is far less impressive.  Their GDP is 11th on the world list, coming in well below Italy, Canada and Brazil.  The have taken massive losses and are unable to rebuild some key capabilities like the bombers that were lost in Operation Spider Web.

This week Putin officially acknowledge the economic difficulties, some thing he never does but in this case he has no choice.  The offensive expected in the summer of 2026 is likely their last gasp at victory in Ukraine.

I understand and respect your opinion, I just think at a much higher strategic level Russia has been removed from the table as a major peer threat to the United States.  Their military humbled and destroyed, likely 1 million casualties with as many as 250,000 soldiers killed, it will take them a generation to recover and we didn't lose a single American soldier.

[BashiChuni]

so you support giving zelensky 40 billion a year?

i disagree that russia is economically "on the ropes".

[bfargin]

innovative and effective (also cheap) ways to kill each other. Respect the innovation but loath how we’re still obsessed with killing each other (not to get too preachy). 

 

[Stoker]

10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

so you support giving zelensky 40 billion a year?

i disagree that russia is economically "on the ropes".

I've asked this before, but imagine a defense contractor built a magic button that, once pressed, meant that our primary land threat simply wasn't a consideration for a decade. How much would that button be worth? Got to be at least a few tens of billions.

[disgruntledemployee]

What's crazy about UKR and all their drone stuff is they assign point values to targets, just like a video game.  I'm waiting for their PR department to ramp up a TV show to highlight things a kill leader board with cool names like Dr Boom and The Kill of the Week ala Zombieland.... poor flat bastard.

[Clark Griswold]

So this is good news…

https://www.twz.com/news-features/cartel-members-fought-in-ukraine-to-learn-fpv-drone-skills-report

[nunya]

Not really novel. 7th SFG trained a bunch of future Zetas years ago. Gangs have long used the US military as training ground. They even have an acronym: Military-trained gang members (MTGMs).

Edited Thursday at 02:08 PM by nunya

[Clark Griswold]

9 minutes ago, nunya said:

Not really novel. 7th SFG trained a bunch of future Zetas years ago. Gangs have long used the US military as training ground. They even have an acronym: Military-trained gang members (MTGMs).

True, I mention as it they seemed to be there for specific training, drones, and how to use asymmetric capabilities / tactics to fight conventional forces.  Bodes ill for stability in certain areas poorly / loosely governed methinks.

[Stoker]

Seems like a very Rube Goldbergian way to learn how to fly drones. It's like enlisting in the Navy to learn how to swim - sure, it might work, but there are probably easier ways.

[Lord Ratner]

5 hours ago, Stoker said:

Seems like a very Rube Goldbergian way to learn how to fly drones. It's like enlisting in the Navy to learn how to swim - sure, it might work, but there are probably easier ways.

Why do other countries send pilot trainees to UPT?

 

There aren't many places to learn how to use FPV drives in combat. In fact, for now there's only one.

[Biff_T]

I imagine Putin is getting closer to launching a nuke.   He can't really afford to lose more troops and iron.  I think he's going to get desperate enough to push the button.  

Edited 22 hours ago by Biff_T
Spelling

[Day Man]

don't worry...pedophile/grifter in chief is on it!

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/01/trump-russia-nuclear-submarines.html

[bfargin]

Really? Most of us aren’t total fanboys of trump, but calling him a pedo? Really?

[Day Man]

if you were strongly implicated in a child sex-trafficking operation, would you push for everything to be released to prove your innocence, or fight tooth and nail to cover it up? also, some wise words underlined below:

On 6/2/2023 at 10:09 PM, bfargin said:

Homos are 18Xs more likely to be pedos. The three predilections I lumped together, all deny reality and the design of humanity. To engage in any of that behavior is bad for the individual, the culture, and society as a whole. I know when it’s personal it’s more difficult to see the truth but that doesn’t change the facts.

[disgruntledemployee]

55 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Really? Most of us aren’t total fanboys of trump, but calling him a pedo? Really?

I think he meant "child addicted."

[DirkDiggler]

4 hours ago, Biff_T said:

I imagine Putin is getting closer to launching a nuke.   He can't really afford to lose more troops and iron.  I think he's going to get desperate enough to push the button.  

Maybe we’ll jump in.