The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[DosXX]

4 hours ago, FLEA said:

Ah ok. Can you explain to me specifically what policies sK and JP implemented that you would have reccommended the POTUS implement? 

 

Low hanging fruit would be the opposite of what I listed at the end. So wearing his mask and calling it patriotic shortly after CDC changed guidance rather than months after, putting political pressure on certain states/cities to SHUT DOWN instead of "LIBERATE", establishing a cautionary tone that encouraged a culture of safety in the national conscious rather than an overconfident one that fueled conspiracies such as plandemic, etc. One of the biggest factors in their success was their contact tracing program, so a national voluntary contact tracing program established through FEMA after the national emergency was declared could have been very effective. Airport screenings were another weak point of ours so implementing a general screening operation through TSA and a short turnaround testing operation through Customs for travelers visiting from hot zones would have been useful. In addition, disbanding the NSC pandemic response team prior to the virus was detrimental to our initial response and defunding the NIH funds for coronavirus research in May was a seemingly politically motivated mistake. Just to be clear again I don't put all the blame on the administration, so I don't think doing all this on their own would put us on par with those countries either.

[FLEA]

1 minute ago, DosXX said:

Low hanging fruit would be the opposite of what I listed at the end. So wearing his mask and calling it patriotic shortly after CDC changed guidance rather than months after, putting political pressure on certain states/cities to SHUT DOWN instead of "LIBERATE", establishing a cautionary tone that encouraged a culture of safety in the national conscious rather than an overconfident one that fueled conspiracies such as plandemic, etc. One of the biggest factors in their success was their contact tracing program, so a national voluntary contact tracing program established through FEMA after the national emergency was declared could have been very effective. Airport screenings were another weak point of ours so implementing a general screening operation through TSA and a short turnaround testing operation through Customs for travelers visiting from hot zones would have been useful. In addition, disbanding the NSC pandemic response team prior to the virus was detrimental to our initial response and defunding the NIH funds for coronavirus research in May was a seemingly politically motivated mistake. Just to be clear again I don't put all the blame on the administration, so I don't think doing all this on their own would put us on par with those countries either.

So just to be clear, you can't name a single law, executive action, or national policy instituted in sK or JP in their COVID response, but you can name a bunch of things you think we should have done. Copy.

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, TreeA10 said:

I'm not a big conspiracy guy and don't own a tinfoil hat but the reporting of cases and deaths has become suspect.  A guy in Florida had COVID and was involved in a fatal crash on his motorcycle.  Cause of death is listed as COVID.  Similar incidents have occurred in other states.  People have signed up to get tested for COVID and leave without being tested and are contacted later saying they tested positive.  What is driving the need to get numbers of deaths and positives tests up?  In the grand accounting scheme, the actual numbers falsely attributed to COVID is probably small in comparison to real numbers but why inflate the numbers?

I’ve heard this from a lot of folks and seen a lot of similar Facebook posts. Yet there never seems to be any proof to back these stories up. Care to provide some form of documentation that says this incident actually happened the way you claim it did?

[Negatory]

10 minutes ago, FLEA said:

So just to be clear, you can't name a single law, executive action, or national policy instituted in sK or JP in their COVID response, but you can name a bunch of things you think we should have done. Copy.

Dude he named a bunch of things a leader could have done to LEAD more effectively. A pandemic is exacerbated by the population and how they perceive and enact guidance. Not making a strategy or backing up those that did (e.g. the CDC) is a large contributing factor to why we are here. How’d you get so blinded by bias?

Edited August 28, 2020 by brawnie

[FLEA]

2 minutes ago, brawnie said:

Dude he named a bunch of things a leader could have done to LEAD more effectively. A pandemic is caused by the population and how they perceive guidance. Not making a strategy or backing up those that did (e.g. the CDC) is a large contributing factor to why we are here. How’d you get so blinded by bias?

Ummmmm, he didn't answer the question I asked?....

I didn't ask what we could have done. I asked what JP and sK did. He didn't answer that. He made an assertion they handled the pandemic better. I made a very honest and curious inquiry to find out why he believed that. He wasn't able to back up his assertion. Not that hard to follow man. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by FLEA

[DosXX]

22 minutes ago, FLEA said:

So just to be clear, you can't name a single law, executive action, or national policy instituted in sK or JP in their COVID response, but you can name a bunch of things you think we should have done. Copy.

Idk if you just didn't read or are being intentionally obtuse. I specifically stated their national contact tracing program as the most important policy they did and how we could replicate it here through the executive branch. I also mentioned their airport screening policies and how we could do something similar here. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by DosXX

[brickhistory]

My regrets that the 17 yr old in Kenosha will have to deal with the aftermath, but from a getting it done aspect, he took out three skinnies, two permanently, while retreating/getting beaten.  All three "peaceful protesters" have violent felony records.

And at least one of them was armed.

Both sides are playing that game now.

Not a game anymore.

 

 

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, Clark Griswold said:

Money - Medicare pays 20% more if cause of death is listed as COVID

Not sure if the above listed example of suspicious relation to COVID would square with that but it seems like hospital administrators are gaming the COVID relief legislation and policies for additional funds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/20/coronavirus-covid-medicare-payments-hospitals/

Not true. Here is an article from the Denver Post that explains why government reimbursement to hospitals is higher for treatment of Covid-19 patients, but that there is no extra money associated with reporting deaths. This higher reimbursement is limited to patients age 65 or older and dependent on Medicare, which typically does not cover the full cost of treatment. Makes sense to me that the federal government would step in with some aid here to make sure that a vulnerable population gets treated, but what do I know. The article also goes into some detail explaining how and why Covid-19 deaths are reported the way they are. The explanation does not require an elaborate conspiracy theory. Worth a read. 

[FLEA]

14 minutes ago, DosXX said:

Idk if you just didn't read or are being intentionally obtuse. I specifically stated their national contact tracing program as the most important policy they did and how we could replicate it here.

I did miss that sentence and ill acknowledge that. I agree that contact tracing is a great idea on paper. I discount sK and JP mask wear because it was cultural habbits prior to the pandemic. I would actually attribute the biggest motivator to sK/JP success to be the fact that the average citizen in those countries is far more socially responsible than the average American. I was in Korea when the Daegu church breakout occured. Members of that church and their families were publicy shamed for weeks. There was a huge loss of face by those that participated and other churches that were still open shuddered immediately after. We don't have that cultural component in the US, hence your voluntary contact tracing I feel would have limited participation. 

There are other cultural aspects as well. Japanese and Koreans are generally cleaner than Americans and possess better hygiene. 

The point I'm trying to make to all this is there is more than being "industrialized economies."  

We don't buy stealth fighters because other countries procure stealth fighters. We assess a requirement and an individual need for it. Likewise, a state is going to respond to a crises based on it's individual circumstances. I'm not a supporter of the President. But I have worked high enough to know that data usually isn't accurate when it reaches the executive level, and there is no playbook for a pandemic response. Especially when that pandemic puts you at odds with your authoritarian Asian rival who is carefully watching your responses to make critiques on free democracies. 

That said, of all the policies you listed, I don't really think they were large contributors to the outbreak. We had a leveling curve until the Goeorge Floyd riots began. The single biggest mistake I put on the President is not recognizing the civil unrest and synergizing the strategy for the pandemic response to the civil unrest response at all. The country was looking for a voice of unification at that point and he completely missed the boat on it. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by FLEA

[jrizzell]

Tolerance personified as an elderly couple exited a political event 👍

 

[DosXX]

40 minutes ago, FLEA said:

And there is no playbook for a pandemic response. 

 

Agree with your overall points here, I'm just nitpicking in good spirit for the meme here cause McConnell said this in the Senate and it was pointed out that the previous administration did in fact leave a 69 page (nice) playbook after Ebola for future administrations titled "Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents" but known colloquially as “the pandemic playbook” that came from the team that was disbanded that I mentioned. 

Agree in general on the importance of cultural differences in their pandemic response success. Main reason I started with low hanging fruit was because I believed culture was one of the main driving factors driving their success and those actions from POTUS could lead us towards that culture instead of away from it. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by DosXX

[sixblades]

The CDC has said our infection numbers are likely 10 times higher than reported (due to tens of millions having it, but not going to the hospital/getting tested)...And since this doesn’t support your opinion, you’ll likely come at me screaming “source!”
 

I thinks that’s a valid theory given so many unknowns about how symptoms manifest and the true transmissibility of the virus. That would definitely push down the mortality rate in the US (and potentially abroad), and I’m all for it, but that doesn’t change the fact that we’ve poorly combatted the realities of this pandemic. Our confirmed infected and confirmed death numbers would still be disproportionately high relative to the rest of the world, and that’s what the concern is about

A source would be nice... jk!

[Negatory]

The protesting has lost its purpose. If you want people to care, maybe don’t attack politicians. There’s no apparent strategy other than to be mad and break stuff.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8672681/BLM-protesters-gather-outside-White-House-Trumps-RNC-speech.html

[jrizzell]

The protesting has lost its purpose. If you want people to care, maybe don’t attack politicians. There’s no apparent strategy other than to be mad and break stuff.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8672681/BLM-protesters-gather-outside-White-House-Trumps-RNC-speech.html

You’re missing the point, the chaos is the end game. The “protestors” want to see an end to the American Capitalist system, they view it as racist and unjust. It appears that direct force and coercion, are the newest tactics. Forcing individuals to “raise their hand in support of your movement” is a literal personification of the Maoist struggle session.

[Prozac]

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

My regrets that the 17 yr old in Kenosha will have to deal with the aftermath, but from a getting it done aspect, he took out three skinnies, two permanently, while retreating/getting beaten.  All three "peaceful protesters" have violent felony records.

And at least one of them was armed.

Both sides are playing that game now.

Not a game anymore.

 

 

Here’s a photo. It’s disturbing and I debated posting it here but I think it’s relevant and appropriate in response to your post:

The photo appears to show a couple of Kyle Rittenhouse’s victims. In the foreground, clutching his chest, is Anthony Huber who was “armed” with a skateboard and apparently attempting to disarm Rittenhouse. He collapsed in that spot and died shortly after this photo was taken. Standing in front of Rittenhouse is Gaige Grosskreutz. It’s hard to see in this picture but he was apparently armed. Still, in the photo he is in a clearly unthreatening stance with his hands in the air, perhaps attempting to talk Rittenhouse down. He was shot in the arm. The events surrounding Rittenhouse’s first shooting event, which resulted in the death of Joseph Rosenbaum are less clear but reports are that someone other than Rosenbaum fired a gun into the air, after which Rosenbaum lunged at Rittenhouse and was shot in the head. I have not seen evidence indicating that Rosenbaum himself was armed. 
 

Kyle Rittenhouse took a firearm that he apparently wasn’t authorized to own across state lines to a city in which he didn’t reside ostensibly to defend local businesses. He was young, immature, untrained in crowd control or use of force, and probably scared. He had no business injecting himself into that situation and the results were predictably tragic. 
 

Brickhistory, I find your post to be in poor taste and antithetical to American values.  I don’t know you.  The fact that you’re active on this board means that in all likelihood you are in fact a veteran who loves his country.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent human being who will take my comments as considered criticism and not a personal attack.  That’s not what this is.  But to equate American citizens protesting in the streets to “skinnies” is abhorrent.  We are talking about Kenosha Wisconsin, USA, not Mogadishu. EVEN if some of these protesters were participating in illegal activities, they are US citizens entitled to due process, not foreign enemies to be shot down in the streets. Celebrating and lionizing the actions of a misguided, scared, seventeen year old vigilante is beyond the pale. I never thought I’d see the day when a fellow veteran would refer to fellow citizens in the streets as skinnies and celebrate their murders. Pleas reconsider your statements.

[Clark Griswold]

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/20/coronavirus-covid-medicare-payments-hospitals/
Not true. Here is an article from the Denver Post that explains why government reimbursement to hospitals is higher for treatment of Covid-19 patients, but that there is no extra money associated with reporting deaths. This higher reimbursement is limited to patients age 65 or older and dependent on Medicare, which typically does not cover the full cost of treatment. Makes sense to me that the federal government would step in with some aid here to make sure that a vulnerable population gets treated, but what do I know. The article also goes into some detail explaining how and why Covid-19 deaths are reported the way they are. The explanation does not require an elaborate conspiracy theory. Worth a read. 

Disagree that it is Not True but it is True*

*Asterisk item for this article that lists the known policies and reasonably suspected shenanigans involved with admin shoe clerks using sometimes consulted reimbursement rules/new policies to the advantage of their institution

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3000638001


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brickhistory]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Here’s a photo. It’s disturbing and I debated posting it here but I think it’s relevant and appropriate in response to your post:

The photo appears to show a couple of Kyle Rittenhouse’s victims. In the foreground, clutching his chest, is Anthony Huber who was “armed” with a skateboard and apparently attempting to disarm Rittenhouse. He collapsed in that spot and died shortly after this photo was taken. Standing in front of Rittenhouse is Gaige Grosskreutz. It’s hard to see in this picture but he was apparently armed. Still, in the photo he is in a clearly unthreatening stance with his hands in the air, perhaps attempting to talk Rittenhouse down. He was shot in the arm. The events surrounding Rittenhouse’s first shooting event, which resulted in the death of Joseph Rosenbaum are less clear but reports are that someone other than Rosenbaum fired a gun into the air, after which Rosenbaum lunged at Rittenhouse and was shot in the head. I have not seen evidence indicating that Rosenbaum himself was armed. 
 

Kyle Rittenhouse took a firearm that he apparently wasn’t authorized to own across state lines to a city in which he didn’t reside ostensibly to defend local businesses. He was young, immature, untrained in crowd control or use of force, and probably scared. He had no business injecting himself into that situation and the results were predictably tragic. 
 

Brickhistory, I find your post to be in poor taste and antithetical to American values.  I don’t know you.  The fact that you’re active on this board means that in all likelihood you are in fact a veteran who loves his country.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent human being who will take my comments as considered criticism and not a personal attack.  That’s not what this is.  But to equate American citizens protesting in the streets to “skinnies” is abhorrent.  We are talking about Kenosha Wisconsin, USA, not Mogadishu. EVEN if some of these protesters were participating in illegal activities, they are US citizens entitled to due process, not foreign enemies to be shot down in the streets. Celebrating and lionizing the actions of a misguided, scared, seventeen year old vigilante is beyond the pale. I never thought I’d see the day when a fellow veteran would refer to fellow citizens in the streets as skinnies and celebrate their murders. Pleas reconsider your statements.

The kid shouldn't have been there.  Neither should the rioters.  Neither is in the right.  However, the kid didn't start the fight or riots.  

The kid will undoubtedly face firearms charges, as well as the murder charges he currently has.  The numerous videos available show him being chased, repeatedly.  They show him being attacked after he tripped.  Skateboarder guy was wailing away on him with the board and trying to take the weapon.  That, too, is on video.  The video prior to him tripping records shot(s) that aren't from the kid's rifle.  The "hand's up" guy with the pistol then pointed it at the kid and tried to take the weapon. He is also on video at the hospital acknowledging that he "wished I'd emptied the whole magazine into him."

 Self-defense will most likely beat the murder charges, but the underage firearm thing and across state lines (if true) are gonna be a problem for him.  I don't know him.  But no 17 year old should have to deal with taking other lives, fearing for his own, and being stupid.

The rioters knew better.  But they largely haven't been held to account.  I believe the masses are about tired of that.

My comment, as dark as it was, related to the kid's ability to take out threats to him.  I don't feel regret for that notice nor the term I'm using for the antifa rioters/anarchists.  They aren't seeking "social justice" or a better America.  They are seeking the end of America.  I have no respect for that view nor those that hold it.  Therefore, derision is one way I deal with it.

I also noted that both sides are armed and it's not a game any more.

But it's human nature to say "enough's enough."  Two-way violence is only going to increase.

I don't rejoice in that, but I certainly understand it.  How many months have the good guys had to endure the destruction of cities and towns?  Eventually, the good guys fight back.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by brickhistory

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Here’s a photo. It’s disturbing and I debated posting it here but I think it’s relevant and appropriate in response to your post:

Brickhistory, I find your post to be in poor taste and antithetical to American values.  I don’t know you.  The fact that you’re active on this board means that in all likelihood you are in fact a veteran who loves his country.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent human being who will take my comments as considered criticism and not a personal attack.  That’s not what this is.  But to equate American citizens protesting in the streets to “skinnies” is abhorrent.  We are talking about Kenosha Wisconsin, USA, not Mogadishu. EVEN if some of these protesters were participating in illegal activities, they are US citizens entitled to due process, not foreign enemies to be shot down in the streets. Celebrating and lionizing the actions of a misguided, scared, seventeen year old vigilante is beyond the pale. I never thought I’d see the day when a fellow veteran would refer to fellow citizens in the streets as skinnies and celebrate their murders. Pleas reconsider your statements.

 

Can't disagree with your comments on calling them "skinnies."  However, how about posting the picture of the convict chasing the 17 year old down and tossing an object at him, or the picture of him taking a skateboard to his head, or the picture of the other convict with a hand gun?  How about the video of that same individual that threw the object at this kid, aggressively threatening the very people defending the properties?   That said, if these people keep it up, they are going to awaken a sleeping giant that is Americans who just want to be left alone.  You're upset, be all means go protest and air your grievances, but when you start destroying private citizens business and property, well that's when I stop defending you.  There will be more and more of these bands of citizens who take up arms to defend their towns if local leadership can't/won't get the protestor under control...and there will be much more bloodshed.  You try something like this in my home town and there will be a lot more people with extra holes in their bodies.   Maybe if more them starting getting shot or having the shit beat out of them, they'll stop destroying their fucking cities.  Anarchists want anarchy, until they get bloodied...

Edited August 28, 2020 by SocialD

[FLEA]

It's not against the law in WI for a 17yo to possess a long arm under adult supervision on private property. This was intended to allow children to hunt but apparently the law is vague enough that several defense attorneys think it will make a robust defense as Rittenhouse was on private property at invitation of the property owner before being chased off. Also worth noting he did not own the firearm and did not carry it across state lines. It was given to him in WI. I can't find more details but it sounds like it may belong to the friend who's property he was defending. 

It's unclear how the first shooting went down. The defense claims a protestor through a Molotov or some flaming object at Rittenhouse but there is no stand your ground laws or castle doctrine in WI. He would have to demonstrate he didn't have a reasonable means of retreat. Plausible either way. 

In WI self defense does not apply if you are committing another crime when you defend yourself. So hanging him on illegal possession of a firearm is a clear win for a prosecutor. However they are trying him for murder as an adult. A certain ethical question will arise when it is asked how his criminal status is regulated to the law regarding him as a child, but his due process regards him as an adult. Can he be both? 

Certainly interesting. From the video allone it looks like clear self defense to me, but everything really hinges on 1.) Did he have the firearm legally and 2.) Was the first shooting in self defense? 

 

Edit: Here is a link to the video. This looks like clear self defense, especially since he is agressively trying to get away before opening fire. However, this is after the first shooting, and the prosecuting attorney will likely narrate that the mob is trying to disarm/take him into custody after the first shooting. 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by FLEA

[Breckey]

At what point is somebody being disarmed for firing shots become self-defense on the part of the shooter?

Honest question because everything out of this right now is clouded in the fog of crafted narratives to fit whatever agenda is being put forward.

The same event may seem to protesters like an attempt to disarm and prevent an active shooter situation while also seeming like self defense to prevent a mob attack.

[SocialD]

2 minutes ago, Breckey said:

The same event may seem to protesters like an attempt to disarm and prevent an active shooter situation while also seeming like self defense to prevent a mob attack.

 

Ya, when a kid is running down the middle of the street (TOWARD the police) and not raising his gun to anyone...you kinda lose that defense.  The kids is going to face some weapons related charges no doubt, but from all the videos I've seen, his self defense claim will stick.  Oh and don't bring a skateboard to a gun fight...let him keep running and watch from a distance, the police were seriously a block away.

 

 

[brickhistory]

17 minutes ago, Breckey said:

At what point is somebody being disarmed for firing shots become self-defense on the part of the shooter?

Honest question because everything out of this right now is clouded in the fog of crafted narratives to fit whatever agenda is being put forward.

The same event may seem to protesters like an attempt to disarm and prevent an active shooter situation while also seeming like self defense to prevent a mob attack.

Two sides to every story and the truth somewhere in there as well.

Yet, the manbun brigade didn't need to wait for the truth regarding the black guy shot to kick off the Kenosha games.

So, only one side gets held to the truth standard?

[Grabby]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

Here’s a photo. It’s disturbing and I debated posting it here but I think it’s relevant and appropriate in response to your post:

The photo appears to show a couple of Kyle Rittenhouse’s victims. In the foreground, clutching his chest, is Anthony Huber who was “armed” with a skateboard and apparently attempting to disarm Rittenhouse. He collapsed in that spot and died shortly after this photo was taken. Standing in front of Rittenhouse is Gaige Grosskreutz. It’s hard to see in this picture but he was apparently armed. Still, in the photo he is in a clearly unthreatening stance with his hands in the air, perhaps attempting to talk Rittenhouse down. He was shot in the arm. The events surrounding Rittenhouse’s first shooting event, which resulted in the death of Joseph Rosenbaum are less clear but reports are that someone other than Rosenbaum fired a gun into the air, after which Rosenbaum lunged at Rittenhouse and was shot in the head. I have not seen evidence indicating that Rosenbaum himself was armed. 
 

Kyle Rittenhouse took a firearm that he apparently wasn’t authorized to own across state lines to a city in which he didn’t reside ostensibly to defend local businesses. He was young, immature, untrained in crowd control or use of force, and probably scared. He had no business injecting himself into that situation and the results were predictably tragic. 
 

Brickhistory, I find your post to be in poor taste and antithetical to American values.  I don’t know you.  The fact that you’re active on this board means that in all likelihood you are in fact a veteran who loves his country.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent human being who will take my comments as considered criticism and not a personal attack.  That’s not what this is.  But to equate American citizens protesting in the streets to “skinnies” is abhorrent.  We are talking about Kenosha Wisconsin, USA, not Mogadishu. EVEN if some of these protesters were participating in illegal activities, they are US citizens entitled to due process, not foreign enemies to be shot down in the streets. Celebrating and lionizing the actions of a misguided, scared, seventeen year old vigilante is beyond the pale. I never thought I’d see the day when a fellow veteran would refer to fellow citizens in the streets as skinnies and celebrate their murders. Pleas reconsider your statements.

There is no way you can be taken seriously. 

You post a single picture from a complex situation (there are several videos of it which would completely debunk the spin you're putting on it), and attribute a narrative to it while intentionally leaving out numerous facts.  Perhaps you missed your calling as a modern day journalist. 

Let's dissect your post.  First, these guys weren't "victims".  They were chasing an armed dude down who just defended his life, and Anthony Huber attacked him with his skateboard (on video), which 100% is a deadly object.  He was shot in the chest and died.

Gaige Grosskreutz did not have his hands up for more than a very brief moment, the he charged .  He was joining in on attacking Rittenhouse,  was armed, and was shot in the arm. 

The events immediately leading to the first shooting of Joseph Rosenbaum are very clear from several available videos.  He was pursuing a retreating Rittenhouse with what any objective person would agree was an aggressive disposition, while shots were fired from a third party.  He got to within touching distance of Rittenhouse and was shot and died.

 

I agree with your second paragraph if Kyle took a gun across state lines.  Looking at the second part of your post, though, I'll make a few changes to reflect the feelings of a growing number of Americans:

Many RIOTERS crossed states lines to a city in which they didn't reside, ostensibly to destroy local businesses.  They were young and old, immature, untrained in crowd control or use of force, and seemingly not scared.  They had no business injecting themselves into the situation they created, and since armed Americans trying to protect others were present, the results were predictably tragic. 

Prozac, I find your post to be in poor taste and antithetical to American values.  I don’t know you.  The fact that you’re active on this board means that in all likelihood you are in fact a veteran who loves his country.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re a decent human being who will take my comments as considered criticism and not a personal attack. That’s not what this is.  But to equate American citizens rioting in the streets and attacking a scared young kid just trying to naively help protect innocent people to “victims” is abhorrent.  We're talking about people trying to burn down Kenosha Wisconsin, USA, not Mogadishu.  EVEN if some of these armed civilian business protectors were participating in illegal activities, they are US citizens entitled to due process, not foreign enemies to be attacked in the streets by a rioting mob of felons (all three shot had impressive records).

 

With more calling for de-funding the police, crazy assholes rioting and wanting to take it to the suburbs, and local governments stepping back to let shit play out, this is the only logical outcome.  The vast majority of people want to preserve America rather than destroy it while turning us into a lawless entity, and we will start to see more and more of these scenes develop.  I also find it strange that you would call out another vet because they called a bunch of rioters "skinnies".  I think you're offense to the pejorative is manufactured.  The truth is the threat these rioters pose to Americans, on American soil no less, is far greater than any Somalian in Mogadishu, and they weren't shot down in the streets in the manner you implied.  They were killed while acting as parts of a mob burning a city, by a dude defending his own life as they attacked him.  A military member called them a name which, on this forum, universally ID's them as pieces of shit.  While you may not agree, it's batshit crazy for you to not understand where Brick was coming from. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Grabby

[TreeA10]

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

I’ve heard this from a lot of folks and seen a lot of similar Facebook posts. Yet there never seems to be any proof to back these stories up. Care to provide some form of documentation that says this incident actually happened the way you claim it did?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/florida-motorcyclist-covid-death/. This guys death was initially recorded as Covid but then changed.  Why was it recorded as COVID in the first place?

https://www.mysuncoast.com/2020/07/19/concerns-arise-some-receive-positive-covid-results-never-got-tested/

https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories/people-never-tested-covid-19-report-calls-saying-theyre-infected/CRJSXJC6EFD5TAC6AFWZFFQYP4/

Edited August 28, 2020 by TreeA10

[busdriver]

1 hour ago, Breckey said:

At what point is somebody being disarmed for firing shots become self-defense on the part of the shooter?
Honest question because everything out of this right now is clouded in the fog of crafted narratives to fit whatever agenda is being put forward.
The same event may seem to protesters like an attempt to disarm and prevent an active shooter situation while also seeming like self defense to prevent a mob attack.

Violence is messy.  Always has been, always will be.  This is why the state having the monopoly on the legitimate use of it is so important to maintaining modern society.  Rioting is a bad idea, vigilantism is a bad idea.  People flabbergasted that this is possible in America is amazingly naive.

If you're seriously curious about self defense law, read: "The Law of Self Defense" by Andrew Branca