The Iran thread

[SHFP]

I agree with brabus...two Mig killer friends (one with 2), I think, would also agree.  But I'll confirm manana.   

[brabus]

Personally I don’t think so. If we’re counting shit that isn’t  capable of shooting back at you, then I know a lot of aces!

Edited April 15 by brabus

[Danger41]

19 minutes ago, SHFP said:

I agree with brabus...two Mig killer friends (one with 2), I think, would also agree.  But I'll confirm manana.   

I will bet a large sum of money that they will agree with that sentiment. I also bet that modern day fighter pilots will have a different interpretation. Seeing as I’m between these two generations, I’ll defer to the voice of the elder millennial, Jeffrey Lebowski.

[tac airlifter]

37 minutes ago, brabus said:

Personally I don’t think so. If we’re counting shit that isn’t  capable of shooting back at you, then I know a lot of aces!

It’s actually a great question I’ve never considered: is there an official definition of a fighter ace?

I found this one from the American Fighter Aces Association (Link):

“An American Fighter Ace is a U.S. citizen who has served honorably as a fighter pilot in a U.S. military service or the service of a nation not at war with the United States (or others who flew as a member of a U.S. military service) who has destroyed five or more enemy aircraft in aerial combat.”

As a non fighter dude, 15Es shooting down enemy attack drones in combat meets the defined criteria, and the organization linked above looks legit.  
 

edited to add: WRT your comment, you know alot of guys who have destroyed 5+ enemy aircraft in aerial combat??  The roster has no additions since 1972.

Edited April 15 by tac airlifter

[LoadmasterIL]

There’s actually a very simple answer to this question.

Iif you shot down 17 drones/baloons/missiles- do you consider yourself an equal to Robin Olds?

[Lawman]

It’s actually a great question I’ve never considered: is there an official definition of a fighter ace?
I found this one from the American Fighter Aces Association (Link):
“An American Fighter Ace is a U.S. citizen who has served honorably as a fighter pilot in a U.S. military service or the service of a nation not at war with the United States (or others who flew as a member of a U.S. military service) who has destroyed five or more enemy aircraft in aerial combat.”
As a non fighter dude, 15Es shooting down enemy attack drones in combat meets the defined criteria, and the organization linked above looks legit.  
 
edited to add: WRT your comment, you know alot of guys who have destroyed 5+ enemy aircraft in aerial combat??  The roster has no additions since 1972.

How many MASCALs do the actions of a Robin Olds or Dick Bong etc prevent?

I know this virtuous knights jousting in gleaming steel amongst the clouds crap people buy into is sexy, but reality is fighters unless they are sweeping the skies to prevent mass devastation by bombers or in this case drones, mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of geopolitical weight.

Now don’t get it wrong, I want them viciously deadly at their job, I just don’t pretend to care it matters more than how many bombs some eod tech defused or how many routes some 19 year old in an MRAP with a roller plow prevented from being effective. We just dont have cool names for that kid.

While you guys are shitting on a bunch of mudhen drivers, they may have just helped in actions that prevented a world war.

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[ClearedHot]

4 hours ago, Lawman said:

While you guys are shitting on a bunch of mudhen drivers, they may have just helped in actions that prevented a world war.

I don't think they are crapping on the Mudhen drivers.  This was decided in the community long ago and interestingly the Mudhens had a large part in setting that tradition.  They have previous experience crushing UAVs and it as I understand, aside from a little bit of coolness factor, it was a non-event int he squadron.  Given events in Israel and obviously Ukraine, that standard may change.  I believe it was discussed in one of @Steve Davies podcasts.

[Vito]

Bottom line, those MudHen drivers went to bed with a smile on their face, knowing they did a great job. Plus they garnered the admiration and Thanks of another nation. They will be honored in the future. Nice Job!

Edited April 15 by Vito

[Standby]

For some reason I have a feeling that this event was bit more frenetic than your run of the mill lost link shoot down. I wasn’t there and have no SA on what it was like in the jet so I’m probably off the mark…

[tac airlifter]

7 hours ago, Lawman said:

While you guys are shitting on a bunch of mudhen drivers, they may have just helped in actions that prevented a world war.

I don’t know if your comment was aimed at me but I think whoever shot down 70+ enemy attack drones within a massive swarm of TBMs and cruise missiles did an amazing job under extremely trying circumstances and definitely earned the title of ace.  Apologies if my post was unclear, I was more exploring what the official definition was versus colloquial use of the term.

I hope they do a detailed hot wash of all lessons learned (especially C2 and ROE where I I imagine there’s room for improvement) and make the info accessible to others who need it.  I’m guessing there will be more of this in the future.  Bravo to the team.

[Lawman]

I don’t know if your comment was aimed at me but I think whoever shot down 70+ enemy attack drones within a massive swarm of TBMs and cruise missiles did an amazing job under extremely trying circumstances and definitely earned the title of ace.  Apologies if my post was unclear, I was more exploring what the official definition was versus colloquial use of the term.
I hope they do a detailed hot wash of all lessons learned (especially C2 and ROE where I I imagine there’s room for improvement) and make the info accessible to others who need it.  I’m guessing there will be more of this in the future.  Bravo to the team.

It was more too the room, and given how much I was drinking “shitting on” was probably more strongly worded than intended.
More making the point that while TopGun/Airshow demos and the like sell movies and get kids to look up at jets and agree later to sign on the paper, they aren’t what wins the geopolitical war on their own. And while in the eyes of some the Mudhen is barely a fighter or whatever, what they just accomplished was bad ass.

As this disposable drone warfare and AI synchronized targeting take over the kinetic I think the chances of that fighter on fighter scenario only decrease. What we saw this weekend is probably more in line with the reality of what we need the DCA and Air Defense players to be able to accomplish. I think I’m far more likely to be hit with that than with some random section of SU-24s getting through to the soft, important, vulnerable parts of our order of battle.


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[Boomer6]

11 hours ago, brabus said:

If it doesn’t have an active capacity to kill you, it doesn’t count. That is not at all to take away from the solid work done yesterday.

Does a tail gun count as an "active capacity"?

[wikz]

10 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

 

edited to add: WRT your comment, you know alot of guys who have destroyed 5+ enemy aircraft in aerial combat??  The roster has no additions since 1972.

[brabus]

10 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

WRT your comment, you know alot of guys who have destroyed 5+ enemy aircraft in aerial combat??  

I said I know a lot of guys who have shot down 5x UAVs with no offensive capability. Point is, I could shoot down 5 PRC CMs (or UAVs) tomorrow and save the CSG or Taiwan, and while satisfied with my work, not 0.1% of me would think about ace status. And anyone who said I was I’d tell them to get fucked. And that is how 99% of modern day fighter pilots feel about it. I of course have to account for the 1% super douche who thinks they should stand along side the likes of Dick Bong.

Go kill some J-20s, etc. and you’ve earned it. Again, this line of discussion takes zero away from the massively awesome and well executed actions over the last several months (by the way, US fighters have been shooting shit down in the region for over a year, this occurrence is just notable due to the number).

37 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Does a tail gun count as an "active capacity"?

Sure, that is something that can actually kill you.

[uhhello]

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think any of these guys are running around screaming about them being an ace.  

[Sim]

Quote

Iran informed Turkey in advance of its planned operation against Israel, a Turkish diplomatic source told Reuters on Sunday, adding that Washington had conveyed to Tehran via Ankara that any action it took had to be "within certain limits."

Turkey, which has denounced Israel for its campaign on Gaza, said earlier on Sunday that it did not want a further escalation of tensions in the region.

The Turkish source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan had spoken to both his US and Iranian counterparts in the past week to discuss the planned Iranian operation, adding Ankara had been made aware of possible developments.

Earlier this week, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke to Fidan to make clear that escalation in the Middle East was not in anyone's interest.

"Iran informed us in advance of what would happen. Possible developments also came up during the meeting with Blinken, and they (the US) conveyed to Iran through us that this reaction must be within certain limits," the source said.

 

[fire4effect]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

I said I know a lot of guys who have shot down 5x UAVs with no offensive capability. Point is, I could shoot down 5 PRC CMs (or UAVs) tomorrow and save the CSG or Taiwan, and while satisfied with my work, not 0.1% of me would think about ace status. And anyone who said I was I’d tell them to get fucked. And that is how 99% of modern day fighter pilots feel about it. I of course have to account for the 1% super douche who thinks they should stand along side the likes of Dick Bong.

Go kill some J-20s, etc. and you’ve earned it. Again, this line of discussion takes zero away from the massively awesome and well executed actions over the last several months (by the way, US fighters have been shooting shit down in the region for over a year, this occurrence is just notable due to the number).

Sure, that is something that can actually kill you.

I just finished watching Master's of the Air. Well done series imho . I look at each and every one of them who brought down an enemy plane with a 50 cal as an ace whether in a P-51 or a ball turret. 

[brabus]

I haven’t watched it yet, but definitely want to. Balls of steel, all of them. 

[uhhello]

Biden says 'take the win'.  Despite it taking the weight of the US and other militaries to knock down the great majority prior to the waves reaching Israeli airspace.  

[Smokin]

It'll be an interesting and tough call for Israel.  Do they gracefully accept the help they received and use the short term international good will to free up a hand to do more damage to Hamas or do they strike back at Iran in a significant and public way to show they won't accept this type of thing?  Striking back may be popular and gratifying in Israel but might end up doing more harm than good in the long run.

My bet is nothing happens for a while and then some Iranian leader has 'an accident' or one of Iran's centrifuge facilities suffers a mysterious explosion.  Something that everyone knows was Israel but no one is really able or willing to prove thus decreasing the chance of escalation while showing that they won't sit by while a country launches a horde at them.

[Boomer6]

13 hours ago, brabus said:

Sure, that is something that can actually kill you.

So a Bear counts but not a Badger?

[SHFP]

IMG_8803.HEICIMG_8806.HEIC

[SHFP]

8 minutes ago, SHFP said:

IMG_8803.HEIC 2.51 MB · 7 downloads IMG_8806.HEIC 1.15 MB · 3 downloads

Someone say Bear

[Biff_T]

12 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

So a Bear counts but not a Badger?

[fire4effect]

Couldn't resist. 😎