The new airline thread

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

Is BCBS administering the plans, or are they not? Because if they’re not anymore to determine what is in and out of network, that’s a pretty serious change. If APA is not going to have the foresight to anticipate these backhanded efforts, they could at least have the balls to fight them.

BCBS is not the only plan administrator, and they were not contractually selected. They were chosen by AA, just like AA chose to use their network. We could have negotiated for that, but no one really considered that a priority. If AA wanted to pay them to do so, they could have BCBS and UNH create a fully customized network just for the AA plan. We wouldn't be able to do anything about that either, because we didn't negotiate for it. 

Sure, it's a change, but it's an allowed change. There's nothing to fight (other than what is already being fixed). There is only something new to negotiate, assuming the pilots care, which I doubt they will now that the out-of-network component is fixed. 

 

It was always a part of our plan, if desired, to max out the out-of-network caps so that you could go to any doctor at any location at any price and have it fully covered by AA. That's a pretty significant benefit that few Americans have. 

[SurelySerious]

BCBS is not the only plan administrator, and they were not contractually selected. They were chosen by AA, just like AA chose to use their network. We could have negotiated for that, but no one really considered that a priority. If AA wanted to pay them to do so, they could have BCBS and UNH create a fully customized network just for the AA plan. We wouldn't be able to do anything about that either, because we didn't negotiate for it. 
Sure, it's a change, but it's an allowed change. There's nothing to fight (other than what is already being fixed). There is only something new to negotiate, assuming the pilots care, which I doubt they will now that the out-of-network component is fixed. 
 
It was always a part of our plan, if desired, to max out the out-of-network caps so that you could go to any doctor at any location at any price and have it fully covered by AA. That's a pretty significant benefit that few Americans have. 

The company just took tens of thousands of dollars from anyone who needs these surgeries. It’s the same apathetic defeatist response I got from my rep, and and this is indeed the prevailing sentiment of APA that you’re espousing.

Getting beaten by the company and saying “well it could be worse” is the type of Stockholm syndrome I didn’t see at ALPA, to include a having an actual strategic plan for negotiating. Not impressed with the combination of Mark Meyers/whimsical board of 20 equal Bobs that are at odds with the day to day President. It’s a recipe for this disservice to the members.

[xaarman]

So basically, you’re upset that your hypothetical doctor might not be in-network. 

And ALPA would somehow prevent this.

Are you Jeff Manley?

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by xaarman

[SurelySerious]

So basically, you’re upset that your hypothetical doctor might not be in-network. 

And ALPA would somehow prevent this.
Are you Jeff Manley?
 
 

Yeah, it’s a significant risk for anyone requiring those surgeries or an incredible increase in cost, i.e. a pay cut. APA loves to sit there and say how the company can’t do any better or they said “no” instead of fighting for better or figuring out how to improve things for the members. Case in point, two APA cheerleaders apologizing for the company making a unilateral benefits cut as acceptable. Get ed, we deserve better. ALPA.

[xaarman]

The ALPA movement is dead, mostly because their zealousness has turned off the majority they need to attract - as shown.

 

And then you have Captains pressuring new hires for ALPA card drive support, who subsequently turn to APA Pro Standards because they fear a bad Probationary report if they don't agree. Then APA has to defend those Captains when the Chief Pilots find out about it during the Probationary meet ups.

[SurelySerious]

The ALPA movement is dead, mostly because their zealousness has turned off the majority they need to attract - as shown.
 
And then you have Captains pressuring new hires for ALPA card drive support, who subsequently turn to APA Pro Standards because they fear a bad Probationary report if they don't agree. Then APA has to defend those Captains when the Chief Pilots find out about it during the Probationary meet ups.

Non sequitur and deflecting from the fact that your individualistic apathy about this change is one of the inherent problems within APA, all the way up. “Doesn’t affect me, isn’t likely to affect me so why care.” Except the collective bargaining agent is about protecting…the collective. Some of whom will be greatly affected. That’s where APA is not an effective bargaining agent and should be thrown to the side of the road.

[Disregard]

SHED has been making trouble for years—here’s his squadron-wide email that went viral in 2014:

 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Disregard said:

SHED has been making trouble for years—here’s his squadron-wide email that went viral in 2014:

 

That's definitely the email of a person who would threaten an airline pilot if they didn't do what he asked.

[gearhog]

16 minutes ago, pawnman said:

That's definitely the email of a person who would threaten an airline pilot if they didn't do what he asked.

Or pull the plug on someone's Grandma. 😄

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Yeah, it’s a significant risk for anyone requiring those surgeries or an incredible increase in cost, i.e. a pay cut. APA loves to sit there and say how the company can’t do any better or they said “no” instead of fighting for better or figuring out how to improve things for the members. Case in point, two APA cheerleaders apologizing for the company making a unilateral benefits cut as acceptable. Get ed, we deserve better. ALPA.

Well, I know you won't be doing anything to make ALPA work anymore than you're doing anything to make APA work, so this conversation won't go far.

 

For the outsiders watching in confusion, the majority of pilots have no idea how their contract or benefits work, until they need something from them. The only thing worse is their knowledge of the other Airlines' contracts and benefits, so you get very extreme cases of the grass-is-always-greener effect.

But they get very angry that the people who do the actual work don't provide them a world of limitless pleasure and comfort. 🤷🏻‍♂️

And for the record, I signed a card for ALPA, but the outrage over a normal medical insurance challenge is absurd.

[SurelySerious]

Well, I know you won't be doing anything to make ALPA work anymore than you're doing anything to make APA work, so this conversation won't go far.
 
For the outsiders watching in confusion, the majority of pilots have no idea how their contract or benefits work, until they need something from them. The only thing worse is their knowledge of the other Airlines' contracts and benefits, so you get very extreme cases of the grass-is-always-greener effect.
But they get very angry that the people who do the actual work don't provide them a world of limitless pleasure and comfort. 🤷🏻‍♂️
And for the record, I signed a card for ALPA, but the outrage over a normal medical insurance challenge is absurd.

The fact that you don’t understand or don’t care that a cut in benefits just happened highlights that you shouldn’t be involved in any union activities. Turn in your card and go join management, you’re well on track.

[JS]

2 hours ago, Disregard said:

SHED has been making trouble for years—here’s his squadron-wide email that went viral in 2014:

 

Was that email real? Seems to bad to be real. 

[mcbush]

Not to distract from FFDO and APA shenanigans, but word on the street is that a certain purple cargo carrier has offered its suddenly-overstaffed pilot group the "opportunity" to transition into a direct entry CA job at PSA (and then supposedly flow to AA from there) in exchange for $250k...?

True? If so, am I missing something? Outside of a guy who's 64.9 years old, who would take that?

Edit - Found the answer to my first question:

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by mcbush

[SurelySerious]

APA did make the announcement today that the company is not implementing the healthcare cut that I was against, so their shenanigans are slightly less today than normal. However, my angst with the general apathy and ineptitude usually shown by APA still stands. Not the right culture or representation structure for airline union representation.

[Lord Ratner]

46 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

APA did make the announcement today that the company is not implementing the healthcare cut that I was against, so their shenanigans are slightly less today than normal. However, my angst with the general apathy and ineptitude usually shown by APA still stands. Not the right culture or representation structure for airline union representation.

I was wrong, but actually I'm still right.

 

Nicely done.

[SurelySerious]

I was wrong, but actually I'm still right.
 
Nicely done.

It’s my best quality.

[Pooter]

Very confused AD crewdog here.. regardless of what union I eventually join, will I still get paid more and not have to write OPRs?

[viperdriver1313]

Lord ratner I think was the one everyone despised at Columbus. I wouldn’t listen to him either 

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, viperdriver1313 said:

Lord ratner I think was the one everyone despised at Columbus. I wouldn’t listen to him either 

"The one?" You're going to have to be a little more specific. I was good, but I know plenty others in the FAIP Mafia who would not let me have that title without a fight 🤣😂.

 

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Very confused AD crewdog here.. regardless of what union I eventually join, will I still get paid more and not have to write OPRs?

Yup.. Coming from an AD perspective there is absolutely no discernible difference between the unions.

[artvandelay43201]

UPS now joins purple 

 

[FourFans]

That fine print you can't read: 

"Please know that none of the content in the attached document was produced or validated by UPS. UPS is not, in any way, advising or encouraging any retired employee to contact PSA about this opportunity - nor are we suggesting that you take a new job. UPS has no knowledge of the actual terms and conditions of employment at PSA. Any employment decision between you and PSA must be determined solely by you and PSA."

This is targeting the UPS dudes that just took early retirement.  Not sure how it'd work for a junior dude who quits UPS to jump ship.  My gut says:

[HuggyU2]

[StoleIt]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:45 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

UPS now joins purple 

 

If those UPS pilots who took the early retirement still get their full benefits and there isn't any fine print traps...this seems like an easy way to get an extra $250k + whatever PSA's CA pay rate is + their full UPS retirement.

But, I'd guess it would work out to being only slightly more than what they made as a 15 year UPS CA and then you'd have to deal with being the most junior pilot at a regional...which would probably be very painful at 60+ years old.

[Waingro]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:50 PM, Disregard said:

SHED has been making trouble for years—here’s his squadron-wide email that went viral in 2014:

 

We're doing old emails now? Here's an email the APA Vice President sent to a cadet while on active duty. 

 

https://www.afforums.com/index.php?threads/cadet-request-for-an-f-15-ride.4933/

[brabus]

What a classic email. Although to be fair, I’m not sure a cadet in the back of a strike would actually make any difference in their performance! 
 

(I’m just giving you shit strike bros, if it wasn’t apparent already)