The Next President is...

[HeloDude]

3 hours ago, Biff_T said:

We will see real change when people quit picking sides and do what's right.

What half the country thinks is right, the other half thinks is evil, and vice versa.  But don’t worry, our country can be “fixed”.

[Biff_T]

15 hours ago, HeloDude said:

What half the country thinks is right, the other half thinks is evil, and vice versa.  But don’t worry, our country can be “fixed”.

I don't think enough people really want to fix it.  That would require  not being selfish and true compromise.   Nobody wants that.  Not in modern-day America where your likes on the internet matter more than feeding your children.  Neither side.  Enjoy a weaker dollar and more war for the foreseeable future.  

[Biff_T]

Limit Federal Government.   We have individual states for a reason.  Quit making laws that affect the entire country and let the states have more control.   The system is already in place.  Use it.  We dont need as much Federal government.  They have way too much power.  

You dont like abortion?  Dont live in CA.  

You dont like the religious right?  Dont live in Alabama.  

Dont like overreaching government?  Tell the Federal government to fuck off.   We have legal cannabis in a lot of states and yet it is Federally illegal.   

We have 50 states for reason. We don't all like the same shit.   

I don't want some terd from NYC telling me how to live in Cypress CA.  I already have enough terds here to deal with.  

Edit 2:  Turd is the correct spelling.   Burt Reynolds is not a pussy!

Edited October 31, 2023 by Biff_T
Affect vs effect.

[ViperMan]

11 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Limit Federal Government.   We have individual states for a reason.  Quit making laws that affect the entire country and let the states have more control.   The system is already in place.  Use it.  We dont need as much Federal government.  They have way too much power.  

You dont like abortion?  Dont live in CA.  

You dont like the religious right?  Dont live in Alabama.  

Dont like overreaching government?  Tell the Federal government to fuck off.   We have legal cannabis in a lot of states and yet it is Federally illegal.   

We have 50 states for reason. We don't all like the same shit.   

I don't want some terd from NYC telling me how to live in Cypress CA.  I already have enough terds here to deal with.  

Dude, not to be pedantic, but turd is spelled with a 'u'.

[Biff_T]

10 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Dude, not to be pedantic, but turd is spelled with a 'u'.

TERD for life!   U's are for pussies!

Edited October 28, 2023 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[O Face]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:19 AM, Biff_T said:

TERD for life!   U's are for pussies!

Burt Reynolds was no pussy!!

[Biff_T]

31 minutes ago, O Face said:

Bert Reynolds was no pussy!!

 

@jiceThat's a lol! 

[gearhog]

Gotta give credit where due. Biden is great around kids.

Here, he hands out packs of cigarettes to desperate children in this wholesome White house Halloween party.

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1719277970022408411?s=20

[disgruntledemployee]

17 hours ago, gearhog said:

Gotta give credit where due. Biden is great around kids.

Here, he hands out packs of cigarettes to desperate children in this wholesome White house Halloween party.

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1719277970022408411?s=20

All the kids love Kinko for the presents that they will get,

Silly leather clothes to wear and happy cigarettes....  ha heh heh heh hehhh

[uhhello]

On 11/1/2023 at 4:00 AM, gearhog said:

Gotta give credit where due. Biden is great around kids.

Here, he hands out packs of cigarettes to desperate children in this wholesome White house Halloween party.

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1719277970022408411?s=20

The funniest part is I think you actually believe it 🙂

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, uhhello said:

The funniest part is I think you actually believe it 🙂

LOL. No, I think he's terrible with kids. I was being sarcastic.

[brabus]

Just got my mail in ballot for a state I haven't been a resident/legal voter in for over 10 years. Only have contacted the SoS office about this 5 times. Yep, mail in ballot system, totally legit!

[kaputt]

Election 2023: 3 key takeaways on abortion, Trump and Biden | Fox News

A small sample size of elections for sure, but some strong messaging from voters nonetheless. I've said this on here before, but the overturning of Roe v Wade was one of the single dumbest strategic moves by the Republican party in a very long time. Forget about the legal or technical aspects for a second and look at the big picture. One, abortion bans are in general not popular across most of the country. Two, the right essentially went at the heart of the left's version of the second amendment. This galvanized support and basically proved to many voters the Dem's drum beat of "they want to take away abortion!" was correct after all. Looking at the last two years, the overturning of that single measure has led to numerous election losses and looks like it will continue to do so.

Also, the moderate democrat Kentucky governor winning (again) in a deep red state highlights to me the desire in this country for moderation in politics. The far left and far right garbage that dominates the headlines is not what most people want. Personally, I think on the presidential level the republicans have the best candidates that actually could lean center on many issues and also provide genuine leadership. But of course, somehow, someway, Trump is going to be the nominee; nearly ensuring 4 more years of the current garbage we have. 

The only positive light I would take from this for conservatives is that this week's elections were far more local in nature, and the economy, the border, national security, etc... were not exactly what was being run on. Those three things look very bad on the current administration. But again, they're probably going to run against Trump so the issues will go out the window for half the country anyway. 

 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, kaputt said:

Election 2023: 3 key takeaways on abortion, Trump and Biden | Fox News

A small sample size of elections for sure, but some strong messaging from voters nonetheless. I've said this on here before, but the overturning of Roe v Wade was one of the single dumbest strategic moves by the Republican party in a very long time. Forget about the legal or technical aspects for a second and look at the big picture. One, abortion bans are in general not popular across most of the country. Two, the right essentially went at the heart of the left's version of the second amendment. This galvanized support and basically proved to many voters the Dem's drum beat of "they want to take away abortion!" was correct after all. Looking at the last two years, the overturning of that single measure has led to numerous election losses and looks like it will continue to do so.

Also, the moderate democrat Kentucky governor winning (again) in a deep red state highlights to me the desire in this country for moderation in politics. The far left and far right garbage that dominates the headlines is not what most people want. Personally, I think on the presidential level the republicans have the best candidates that actually could lean center on many issues and also provide genuine leadership. But of course, somehow, someway, Trump is going to be the nominee; nearly ensuring 4 more years of the current garbage we have. 

The only positive light I would take from this for conservatives is that this week's elections were far more local in nature, and the economy, the border, national security, etc... were not exactly what was being run on. Those three things look very bad on the current administration. But again, they're probably going to run against Trump so the issues will go out the window for half the country anyway. 

 

Counterpoint, this is exactly how the Roe issue is permanently removed from the conversation. Every state is now deciding what they want, which is going to appease a lot of people who now have choices if this issue is truly that important to them. 

 

The only way Republicans can truly fuck this up is if they try to nationalize the issue again with a federal ban. They will lose their asses in that case, but I don't think that's the strategy for most. A terrible legal decision has been undone, and one of the most contentious issues in modern American politics is being dealt with in the manner of the founders originally intended, locally.

 

I know a lot of Republicans had the ultimate goal of fully banning abortion, but from a purely conservative and legal standpoint, this issue is resolving itself remarkably fast after 50 years of turmoil.

[kaputt]

I get what you’re saying, but think you’re still looking at it mostly from a legal standpoint. That’s why I specifically said strategic. 
 

And I disagree with the fact that moving it to the states will make the issue go away. One, the left is not going to let it go away unless and until it is protected or codified again at the federal level. You may not agree with that, but that’s the only way the dem’s think they win on this. Not to mention, any conservative politician wishing to make a national level campaign will have to answer for their stance on abortion or have their stance used against them, especially if they come from a state with an abortion ban. 
 

Abortion was always a fringe issue out there that got talked about from time to time to get a rise out of people, but it never got the level of electoral attention it’s getting now on a national scale. In the recent elections since the overturn of Roe v Wade it has been a forefront in the decision making of many voters and has not worked in favor of conservative candidates.
 

That’s why I think it was a colossal strategic mistake to shake the hornets nest of Roe v Wade. 

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, kaputt said:

That’s why I think it was a colossal strategic mistake to shake the hornets nest of Roe v Wade. 

Well, now that’s it done, what do you recommend the GOP do going forward?

[bfargin]

Given the choice of saving innocent human life vs losing elections, I'll stand for life every single day. Without life nothing else matters (no rights to protect). I understand losing elections means the democrats get to decide who they allow to be killed, but the principle remains. We just need to do a better job of framing the question/topic and recognize that not every jurisdiction is happy with the exact same restraints (sadly even on the killing of babies).

The 2nd amendment in our republic is/was/always has been law, abortion was a made up right to kill innocents. They are not even in the same ballpark. Comparing those two is like comparing the right to own material possessions with the right to kill someone you don't like.

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

I get what you’re saying, but think you’re still looking at it mostly from a legal standpoint. That’s why I specifically said strategic. 
 

And I disagree with the fact that moving it to the states will make the issue go away. One, the left is not going to let it go away unless and until it is protected or codified again at the federal level. You may not agree with that, but that’s the only way the dem’s think they win on this. Not to mention, any conservative politician wishing to make a national level campaign will have to answer for their stance on abortion or have their stance used against them, especially if they come from a state with an abortion ban. 
 

Abortion was always a fringe issue out there that got talked about from time to time to get a rise out of people, but it never got the level of electoral attention it’s getting now on a national scale. In the recent elections since the overturn of Roe v Wade it has been a forefront in the decision making of many voters and has not worked in favor of conservative candidates.
 

That’s why I think it was a colossal strategic mistake to shake the hornets nest of Roe v Wade. 

I agree that it's having short-term negative consequences for Republicans, but strategic considerations are generally long-term, not short-term. Strategically, this issue has been removed from the national conversation, *if* the Republicans can get it through their big fat stupid heads to keep it a states rights issue.

 

You say that the dems aren't going to let it go, but then you also say that it's a fringe issue. It's either one of the other. It doesn't matter what the activists scream about, what matters is what actually impacts the average person. The average person now has a much greater ability to live somewhere that agrees with their abortion views, if they consider those views so important as to move to another state.

 

This experiment has been run already in Europe, where the various countries have various laws, and it's just not a part of their normal political discourse.

 

If the Democrats want to make this a national issue, that's all well and good, but they will suffer the same short-term consequences the Republicans are suffering now. Change is seldom good for those doing the changing.

 

The alternative was to have this issue hanging over the heads of Republicans for all time, forced to accept a world of completely unrestricted abortions for all time. That's not a moral proposition that many conservatives can accept, but at least now they can redirect their moral concerns to the local level, as it has been meant to be.

 

I can't speak to the forecast of the Republicans who pushed this, but if they expected no fallout, or even crazier, the adulation of the masses from killing Roe, then they were idiots. But I think many knew that there would be short-term consequences, and those consequences are more than acceptable for completely solving the legal problem, and partially solving the ethical problem.

 

But I think this will be the last presidential election cycle where abortion is a headline issue. The abortion advocates will absolutely hate that reality, as will the pro-life absolutists, but the rest of us will be better off.

[kaputt]

3 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Well, now that’s it done, what do you recommend the GOP do going forward?

In a perfect world (imo) the Republicans and Democrats would work together to come to a bipartisan federal law that codifies abortion rights for women that meets a middle ground of avoiding the extreme lefts desire for late term abortion availability but also gives a woman a chance to know she’s pregnant before making a choice to go through with it or not. I realize some of you aren’t going to like that, but that’s my personal opinion. 
 

Since that has a snowballs chance in hell I’d at least like the GOP to put pressure on states that outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and incest to change those provisions. That really just looks bad from any way you slice it. 
 

Beyond that every GOP candidate for Congress, senate, and president is going to have to either moderate their stance on abortion or consistently promise potential constituents that they aren’t going to push for a federal abortion ban, because the left is going to use that as a rallying cry otherwise. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by kaputt
Typos

[uhhello]

Preach

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, uhhello said:

Preach

It's crazy who the RNC picks to moderate the debates. It goes to show you that establishment Republicans are more concerned with being accepted in the political sphere by their peers than they are with being conservative and pushing conservative policy. And even after Trump they haven't learned.

 

Being conservative in temperament and disposition is mutually exclusive from being someone who seeks the media spotlight, so it seems.

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, kaputt said:

In a perfect world (imo) the Republicans and Democrats would work together to come to a bipartisan federal law that codifies abortion rights for women that meets a middle ground of avoiding the extreme lefts desire for late term abortion availability but also gives a woman a chance to know she’s pregnant before making a choice to go through with it or not. I realize some of you aren’t going to like that, but that’s my personal opinion. 

You’re dreaming man.  And not just on the Republican side, but I’d say mostly on the Democrat side—the left could easily pass a bill in the Senate that says federal law protects abortion up until 4 months but then it’s against the law to do it afterwards.  But that’s not what the left wants—their entire argument is “it should be left up to a woman and her (abortion) doctor”…which means zero bans.

So sure, could the GOP play politics and vote for the 4 month ban as I suggested?  Sure…though of course they’ll never do it for obvious reasons.  And the left would also not vote for it since they don’t want any restrictions.

So politically I don’t know where this goes from here on out.  I do know that the majority of the country is not for abortion on demand.  But they’re also not for a complete ban.  In the end, the state issue makes since, both Constitutionally and politically.  But I agree, if the GOP pushes for federal ban, not only will they not get it, but that it doesn’t help them at all politically.

In the end, as much as I think abortion is morally unacceptable, we’ve got much bigger problems going on.  It’s a distraction compared to massive fiscal shitshow brewing.

[kaputt]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

we’ve got much bigger problems going on.  It’s a distraction compared to massive fiscal shitshow brewing.

Well that’s kind of my point. The country is a dumpster fire right now and instead of being the party of solutions, a large amount of conservative political and legal capital was spent on overturning Roe v Wade, all the while losing elections and letting the truly serious challenges facing this country go unaddressed.  
 

So instead of being a party of leadership, fiscal responsibility, national security, etc…, the GOPs crowning achievement in recent history is overturning a Supreme Court ruling that in the grand scheme has turned a distraction into a rallying cry for low information and low participation voters; and made them actually come out to the polls. 
 

Again, a strategic disaster for the party and honestly it’s less about the abortion issue itself and more about the Republican party’s complete inability to come up with a comprehensive vision for this country that will lead it out of the problems it’s currently facing. 
 

Edit: Just watched the Ramaswamy clip above. Not the biggest fan of him, but those comments in many ways are spot on. The current Republican Party is a bunch of losers. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by kaputt

[Negatory]

8 hours ago, HeloDude said:

You’re dreaming man.  And not just on the Republican side, but I’d say mostly on the Democrat side—the left could easily pass a bill in the Senate that says federal law protects abortion up until 4 months but then it’s against the law to do it afterwards.  But that’s not what the left wants—their entire argument is “it should be left up to a woman and her (abortion) doctor”…which means zero bans.

Oh, a brain dead take on political issues on base ops. Who would have guessed.

You (specifically) can’t help but make false equivalencies and invalid broad generalizations, which you demonstrate literally every single day you post here.

The truth is that Americans support way more nuance in this discussion than your backwards reductionist views. The majority of Americans do not support abortion past 24 weeks. Only 19% of Americans believe abortion should be legal with no strings attached. Oh that’s against the narrative you’re stating?

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/

A lot of people think that it should be allowed in extreme cases beyond an arbitrary time stamp (guaranteed non viability, extremely high risk of death, fetus is almost guaranteed dead). This is not the same as when you try to insinuate democrats support anyone - for any reason as flippant as they just don’t feel like it - should be able to get a third trimester abortion. THATS AN EXTREME VIEW DEMOCRATS DONT EVEN SUPPORT. But it’s in talk radio. You’ve been propagandized. You have to know this, right? But I guess you couldn’t win this argument without bending reality or convincing yourself of some slightly flawed logic.

Finally, you guys are wrong about the potential of this to be perceived as just a states rights issue. This is a big deal. To the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, this was a fundamental attack on Women’s and men’s rights to plan their families. That’s how the majority of Americans (and a supermajority of Democrats) feel, and the longer you try to pretend it’s just a legal battle or was justified via some federalist debate, the longer you lose. Just telling you the truth. Here’s a graph showing how republicans are actively losing the support of independents across the country. 57 to 41, that’s not even close.

 

Now that we’ve had a good time debunking the logical basis of your arguments, let’s go to the emotional way you’re losing this debate (and with it, the American people’s support):

Go ahead and explain why does it affect your poor Christian family if another family that you have never interacted with gets an abortion 2 cities over? Get out of people’s lives. Also, are you suddenly okay with it if it’s just across state borders? Choose a side. If you’re gonna play the pathos argument and then go straight to a legal logos you just sound disingenuous. Which you are. But you sound like it, too.

Oh, and is it really a states right thing? Or is it an overreaching control over everyone thing? Why is Texas trying to inhibit the ability for federal citizens to go to states that align with their views to enjoy the freedoms of those states?

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/west-texas-county-bans-travel-roads-seeking-abortion-104256476

Shit like that is what Republicans laugh about. It’s what the rest of Americans are terrified of. That’s a disadvantage for y’all, sorry.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Negatory

[lloyd christmas]

2 hours ago, Negatory said:

Go ahead and explain why does it affect your poor Christian family if another family that you have never interacted with gets an abortion 2 cities over? Get out of people’s lives. Also, are you suddenly okay with it if it’s just across state borders? Choose a side. If you’re gonna play the pathos argument and then go straight to a legal logos you just sound disingenuous. Which you are. But you sound like it, too.

Disingenuous?  This argument would stand a much better chance of being solved if the pro-abortion side was honest about their intent.  The truth is, people who are pro-abortion are scared of ruining their careers, commitment, finances and scared of the changes to their body should they have a child.  Can’t have stretch marks in this social media crazed day and age.  

Instead we get to argue over some arbitrary number of weeks.  It’s all the same in the end, you’re ending your own child’s life.  Or, we get to talk about things that are statistically irrelevant like rape and incest.  Or, we get to talk about the life of the mother which is getting harder and harder to argue with the advances in medicine.  

The left will never agree to something firm in this argument.  As stated by many above, it’s a political football that consistently produces winners and losers.  It’s too valuable of a political commodity to put to bed.  Meanwhile, millions of children are being murdered in the name of politics, selfishness and irresponsibility.  

It’s all disgusting.  

Edited November 9, 2023 by lloyd christmas
Added