Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Okay, time to end this. I was all excited for a moment. Then, a dud. Of course I haven't, because I'm not an exception. I see. I chose that path and I'd choose it again. You bet. I believe you. Sounds fun. But, this has nothing to do with whether I'm an exception or not. It's about you making ignorant assertions about Air Force aviation. Which are? Flying is flying, whether you're VFR at 500' AGL or IFR at FL430, whether you're doing a low altitude strafing run, or a high altitude intercontinental bombing mission. Flying is flying. Good one. And you said I was making ignorant assertions about Air Force aviation. Your blanket statements about how/why we should perform VFR flight was out of bias towards your specific Air Force experience, but also ignorance for the numerous other missions that exist where VFR flight simply is not stressed or even used. Are there really combat missions where VFR flight is not used? Really? Are you really using a contention that I am unfamiliar with the different missions the flown in the USAF as a basis for your argument? Seriously? C'mon. That's why I called you out. You did? I thought I was asking YOU to clarify YOUR statements. No big deal. I'm happy to acknowledge you called me out if you need it for an OPR bullet or something. You can't defend your statements, and seem to be focusing on this stupid derail by taking my sarcasm literally. All you had to post was "oh yeah, I forgot about that...well what I said applies mostly to tactical aircraft". Ah, the sarcasm defense. FWIW I did not forget about that. I did say it was a skill required for anyone who flew a combat mission, you just missed it. Blinded by anger or shame I guess. Or you can literally just keep arguing something everyone here knows is incorrect. You are wrong. And you are the one who says you're tired of arguing but just cannot seem to stop, even when you are getting trolled hard. Curious. And humorous. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger41 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Nope, I take away your GPS and require you to execute over 400nm. Your INS has inherent errors, can you meet your TOT? It's as simple as that. ^Would probably lead to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You did? I thought I was asking YOU to clarify YOUR statements. No big deal. I'm happy to acknowledge you called me out if you need it for an OPR bullet or something. Finally, something worthwhile. Signature block gold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPStryker Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think the biggest issue is guys being scared of ATC. ATC is not a threat, even though they like to act like it. They will try to tell you what to do but only under the most unusual circumstances can they make you do something when you are VFR, especially if you are proactive and tell them what you intend to do before they get a chance to boss you around. If they tell you to do something you don't want to do you can simply say "unable" or throw a "say reason?" back at them followed by an "unable" when they give you some bullshit reason that is really nothing more than they don't want to put down their cup of coffee. Correctomundo. Especially applicable to KACC (angry controller, anyone? love listening to that guy rip apart the Thais and Malaysians) when they try to pretend they're your clearance authority despite the fact you are VFR/tactical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (angry controller, anyone? love listening to that guy rip apart the Thais and Malaysians) Are you talking about "Angry controller guy" with Kabul? If so that, is the best entertainment going right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Had an angry controller in SC. I am over the field at 11K on RTB and approach control wants to give me vectors from hell to get to initial. I say cancel IFR. Controller says unable and gives me a vector. I tell him I'm cancelling and send 2 to Tower freq. ATC guy explodes saying we can't do that as we switch freq's. I take it out over the edge of the Class B, drop to 500 feet, contact tower, and enter the pattern VFR. I'm not sure if that controller could have spelled VFR so him understanding the rules was certainly too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Nope, I take away your GPS and require you to execute over 400nm. Your INS has inherent errors, can you meet your TOT? It's as simple as that. DBS 2 *shudder* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Seat Driver Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) If your jet never flies VFR because of X,Y, or Z there is a little blurb that says you can do it for training. Flying on an IFR flight plan is easy when it is a vectored departure to jet-routes to vectors ILS. That can get pretty old. There's no harm in going VFR, and it is a great training tool and is a lot more fun than having ATC do the work for you. Plus, we all learned this shit way back in UPT. It wasn't that difficult then and it isn't that difficult now. EDIT: Spelling Edited August 7, 2012 by Right Seat Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 DBS 2 *shudder* What's that? *Sarcasm, kinda...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Møøse Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Poll: "what is the highest you have ever been?". Even if it wasn't legal. To include civilian time. That's easy! Ambien+three beer night after a 12 hour sortie. I was probably dehydrated, too. Coincidentally, 9 of those hours were VFR, both above and below FL230. But not that far below. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescueRandy Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Poll: "what is the highest you have ever been". Even if it wasn't legal. To include civilian time. How about: What is the lowest you have flown (outside of the terminal area)? Outside terminal area? Highest: FL310 (T-6). Lowest: 75-ish AGL (H-60). Fun! BTW, VFR or IFR is a choice that every USAF pilot should be able to make for the needs of the mission at any time. He or she certainly should not be limited by his/her competence in flying in either regime. Period. Edit: Formatting Edited August 14, 2012 by Hella-Copters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Poll: "what is the highest you have ever been?". It was high enough that you could "hear" the Oakland Center controller cock his eyebrow when I said "cancel IFR". 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 It was high enough that you could "hear" the Oakland Center controller cock his eyebrow when I said "cancel IFR". Well played, sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 It was high enough that you could "hear" the Oakland Center controller cock his eyebrow when I said "cancel IFR". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That was Huggy's version of the Brian Schul "groundspeed check" story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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