What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Hacker]

15 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Uh... it was executed to perfection... well beyond the DLO.  Even the Russian judge gave it an "Excellent".  (BTW, isn't "Fair" a 1?)

In any case, I know these things.  I was a FAIP... and I saw the video.  

So I got that going for me.  

I believe this is the "barrel dive" video @hindsight2020 is referring to:

Which, IMHO, should have been graded "U".

[M2]

Concur, Tex did a much better job of it!

 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, Hacker said:

I believe this is the "barrel dive" video @hindsight2020 is referring to:

Which, IMHO, should have been graded "U".

 

yeah it was tongue in cheek. I was talking about the MC-12, but the barrel dive reference meant to draw a parallel to the Q400 thing. Unsat overall indeed on that one.

[IMUA]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:23 AM, Waingro said:

Toeing. Not towing. 

 

PeRdoNaMe.

Sometimes i can’t shake my accent.

[WheelsOff]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:24 PM, Majestik Møøse said:

People don’t have fun in the MAF because it’s run by Chiefs, wanna-be Chiefs, support officers, and some rated guys that pander to all of the above. Life in garrison is dominated by bureaucrat queep and non-support, so any fun doesn’t start until you’re at least 69 tacans away from the MOB, and only then if you have a good crew.

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

When I was there, the thought of Travis AFB, and by extension its AD flying squadrons, generated a near-Pavlovian wretching action associated with non-stop, no-gain bureaucratic queep churn. There was no squadron morale, and certainly no desire to hang out for any amount of time in the building when the emails slowed down enough to allow it.

The U-2 is a complete 180 from that. The MOB is fun, FOLs even more so, the flying is rewarding and fun, and the work is all to make things actually better.

 

On 12/24/2018 at 1:01 PM, joe1234 said:

What's there to get? You extrapolated your personal bad experiences at Travis into being a MAF-wide problem, and how life is better being in U-2's. Which, I'm sure your new life is a great experience and all, but the problem was never the MAF, it was your priorities. I somehow managed to exist in the same MAF as you, at the same time, and had a much different experience. Because I had different priorities.

It reminds me of the dudes who choose career over family and then bitch and then complain about how the Air Force ruined their marriage and estranged them from their kids. Like, no dude, that's your own damn fault.

Agree with Joe, but my experience was the same at McChord circa 2013-2015. Fortunately I was a copilot upgrading to AC during that timeframe, so I didn’t hold a job “important enough” to be responsible for writing OPRs/bullets/etc. But I did sit at cruise a lot with ACs who were nerding out on OPRs and 1206s on their personal laptops. What a clown show. 

There were some things I enjoyed, but in general I hated the MAF, and I hope to never, ever return before I can punch. 

[dream big]

56 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

 

Agree with Joe, but my experience was the same at McChord circa 2013-2015. Fortunately I was a copilot upgrading to AC during that timeframe, so I didn’t hold a job “important enough” to be responsible for writing OPRs/bullets/etc. But I did sit at cruise a lot with ACs who were nerding out on OPRs and 1206s on their personal laptops. What a clown show. 

There were some things I enjoyed, but in general I hated the MAF, and I hope to never, ever return before I can punch. 

Part of the reason the MAF sucks in a lot of places is: Phoenix Eagle.  Many of the MAF’s leaders are part of this self licking ice cream cone of careerism.  On the other hand, most CCs I’ve met on the CAF side are Weapons Officers.  Kind of shows the difference in priorities and why we rightfully often get shit on by the CAF.  

Fortunately, I’ve seen this trend start to change in the MAF.  Quite a few weapons officers getting picked up for command.  Many other “non-special programs” officers are also getting picked up and some of them didn’t even do in-residence IDE.  

 

[Guest]

Part of the reason the MAF sucks in a lot of places is: Phoenix Eagle.  Many of the MAF’s leaders are part of this self licking ice cream cone of careerism.  On the other hand, most CCs I’ve met on the CAF side are Weapons Officers.  Kind of shows the difference in priorities and why we rightfully often get shit on by the CAF.  
Fortunately, I’ve seen this trend start to change in the MAF.  Quite a few weapons officers getting picked up for command.  Many other “non-special programs” officers are also getting picked up and some of them didn’t even do in-residence IDE.  
 

The very worst people I’ve worked for in AMC have been patches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MooseClub]

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

The very worst people I’ve worked for in AMC have been patches.


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^this

A patch in and of itself doesn’t mean much. I’ve seen idiots get sent to WIC along with incredible folks. It still comes down to the person. 

[Champ Kind]

Part of the reason the MAF sucks in a lot of places is: Phoenix Eagle.  Many of the MAF’s leaders are part of this self licking ice cream cone of careerism.  

I know what you meant, but for clarity, I think the exact program at which you’re (rightfully) spewing hate is Phoenix Reach (ie, MDS crossflow).

Phoenix Eagle is the MAF squadron CC selection board for O-5s and O-5 selects.

[Champ Kind]

It still comes down to the person. 

True in so many ways, regardless of “special” program, school, or even experience.

[Guardian]

^this
A patch in and of itself doesn’t mean much. I’ve seen idiots get sent to WIC along with incredible folks. It still comes down to the person. 

I hope you mean that a patch doesn’t mean much with regards to how good someone will be as a commander. As while the patch may not mean much to you, it does however mean a lot of things to a lot of people.

[SurelySerious]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

 

I hope you mean that a patch doesn’t mean much with regards to how good someone will be as a commander. As while the patch may not mean much to you, it does however mean a lot of things to a lot of people.

 

No, what he said was right; the patch itself means little, it’s the person wearing it that matters. Believe it or not, WIC output is subject to the normal distribution of talent/ability/knowledge as everything else. Weak instructors have made it through, as have people concerned with their career over tactics. 

[Guardian]

I don’t disagree that weak people have made it through. But that doesn’t mean that the patch means little.

[SurelySerious]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

I don’t disagree that weak people have made it through. But that doesn’t mean that the patch means little.

Is the patch itself humble, credible, and approachable?

[Danger41]

33 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

Is the patch itself humble, credible, and approachable?

A Patch gets you in the door and credibility until you open your mouth. After that, it’s up to you.

[Chuck17]

15 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

The very worst people I’ve worked for in AMC have been patches.


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And the very worst people I’ve worked for have been crossflow dudes. The point?  As was said, Heuristics are bullshit; judge the individual.

*break break*

... and curtail the Phoenix Reach program.

You want to fix shit in AMC then stop the fixation on guys who know little about a lot, and start building expertise. While there’s value in having SOME breadth, save the generalism for the generals.

AMCs obsession with breadth baffles me (and pretty much everyone outside AMC). I’ve watched guys my entire career pursue “broadening” over expertise - and actually tout how little they know about how many things as some kinda strength... THAT is bullshit  (and there are more than a few nauseating general officers out there spewing the same nonsense). Truly oblivious and out of their depth...

When the balloon goes up you don’t call in the generalists. 

Chuck

Edited January 7, 2019 by Chuck17
Sp

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

And the very worst people I’ve worked for have been crossflow dudes. The point?  As was said, Heuristics are bullshit; judge the individual.

*break break*

... and curtail the Phoenix Reach program.

You want to fix shit in AMC then stop the fixation on guys who know little about a lot, and start building expertise. While there’s value in having SOME breadth, save the generalism for the generals.

AMCs obsession with breadth baffles me (and pretty much everyone outside AMC). I’ve watched guys my entire career pursue “broadening” over expertise - and actually tout how little they know about how many things as some kinda strength... THAT is bullshit  (and there are more than a few nauseating general officers out there spewing the same nonsense). Truly oblivious and out of their depth...

When the balloon goes up you don’t call in the generalists. 

Chuck

And to think AFGSC thought cross-flowing people was a great idea.  Even if they have to practically non-vol B-1 guys to fly the BUFF.

[Guardian]

And to think AFGSC thought cross-flowing people was a great idea.  Even if they have to practically non-vol B-1 guys to fly the BUFF.

From what I’ve heard the bottom of the barrel was selected from each community to non vol to the others in the striker vista program. Contrary to the intent.

[pawnman]

45 minutes ago, Guardian said:

From what I’ve heard the bottom of the barrel was selected from each community to non vol to the others in the striker vista program. Contrary to the intent.

People are eager to get to the B-1 from the B-52, so we're getting pretty good folks.  Not many B-1 folks want to fly the B-52, so they're probably getting fewer quality candidates.

Edited January 7, 2019 by pawnman

[HossHarris]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

People are eager to get to the B-1 from the B-52, so we're getting pretty good folks.  Not many B-1 folks want to fly the B-52, so they're probably getting fewer quality candidates.

Make buffs great again and solve the dilemma 

[Lord Ratner]

Breadth should come from a diverse selection of experts working together. The Air Force has instead built a system that produces a homogenous selection of generalists working together.

Small wonder the solutions often look the same, and function poorly.

[viper154]

Instead taking someone out of their primary airframe for 3-4 years and loosing their quals etc why don’t we do short 3-4 month TDYs to other airframes, especially those that have jump seats and extra space? You could be on the tour and get a bunch of right hand seat time and learn about other communities/missions etc. If you are taking a multi day trip/ocean crossing/deployment/combat zone just require another qualified pilot is on bored to swap you out or provide some additional brain power is shit really gets crazy. 

[Orbit]

35 minutes ago, viper154 said:

Instead taking someone out of their primary airframe for 3-4 years and loosing their quals etc why don’t we do short 3-4 month TDYs to other airframes, especially those that have jump seats and extra space? You could be on the tour and get a bunch of right hand seat time and learn about other communities/missions etc. If you are taking a multi day trip/ocean crossing/deployment/combat zone just require another qualified pilot is on bored to swap you out or provide some additional brain power is shit really gets crazy. 

This sounds like a much better idea and use of a Pilot's time.  But the AF will never buy in, we have way too many rules and no leaders willing to accept any amount of additional risk.  So we will continue to clog up PTX courses with dudes that will fly a different MWS for maybe 2 years before they PCS to some other bright and shiny job...

[tac airlifter]

14 hours ago, viper154 said:

Instead taking someone out of their primary airframe for 3-4 years and loosing their quals etc why don’t we do short 3-4 month TDYs to other airframes, especially those that have jump seats and extra space? You could be on the tour and get a bunch of right hand seat time and learn about other communities/missions etc. If you are taking a multi day trip/ocean crossing/deployment/combat zone just require another qualified pilot is on bored to swap you out or provide some additional brain power is shit really gets crazy. 

Awesome idea.

[Clark Griswold]

Related to the topic of this thread (organizational cultural decline & rot) but worth a read:

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/01/28/how-the-air-force-lost-its-way/

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Clark Griswold