What's wrong with the Air Force?

[17D_guy]

CSAF talking to FoxNews about all the issues he's been talking about (people, planes and lack of pilots)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/25/budget-cuts-impact-us-ability-to-fight-enemy-air-force-general-warns/

[Nineline]

From the linked article: "The Air Force has been losing more drone pilots than they can train, which has Gen. Welsh concerned and which has forced him to order a stop-loss."

Is the stop loss now official?

-9-

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[dvlax40]

From the linked article: "The Air Force has been losing more drone pilots than they can train, which has Gen. Welsh concerned and which has forced him to order a stop-loss."

Is the stop loss now official?

-9-

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Where is he loosing drone pilots to? All those commercial drone outfits? Oh wait...

[HU&W]

From the linked article: "The Air Force has been losing more drone pilots than they can train, which has Gen. Welsh concerned and which has forced him to order a stop-loss."

Is the stop loss now official?

-9-

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Less than a year ago, drone pilots were getting almost $100k to VSP.

[Vprdrvr69]

Less than a year ago, drone pilots were getting almost $100k to VSP.

Almost how we made TAMI-21 following the lucrative VSP circa ~2005-6. Great job AFPC- especially you Chang...ya dumb shit.

[Fuzz]

From the linked article: "The Air Force has been losing more drone pilots than they can train, which has Gen. Welsh concerned and which has forced him to order a stop-loss."

Is the stop loss now official?

-9-

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Probably went out on Thursday or Friday at 1700. So everyone won't find out till tomorrow morning.

[guineapigfury]

Probably went out on Thursday or Friday at 1700. So everyone won't find out till tomorrow morning.

I'm actually dreading checking my email tomorrow morning. Fuck my life.

[pawnman]

From the linked article: "The Air Force has been losing more drone pilots than they can train, which has Gen. Welsh concerned and which has forced him to order a stop-loss."

Is the stop loss now official?

-9-

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If only we hadn't paid all those pilots to get out, and forced others out against their wills...

[Breckey]

You and your logic

[MooseAg03]

Less than a year ago, drone pilots were getting almost $100k to VSP.

I'd have to check the eligibility tables, but if I remember correctly 11U and 18X were ineligible just like 11Fs were - based on your core AFSC. I was one who tried desperately twice to escape this sinking ship last year.

I still can't figure why they didn't cross flow more guys to RPAs instead of paying them to leave and waiving UPT ADSC.

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[BCan]

I don't see how the AF is going to get away with this...you guys need to band together and fight this shit in the court / public domain (if it is true). It is one thing to stop-loss in-order to fight a ground war...it is another to use it as a tool to correct your shitty personnel system, to add additional commitments to guys/gals who have already served lengthy commitments. And what war are they implementing this for? Congress hasn't declared war? If this logic holds up, then we can just get rid of any bonus's, ADSCs, just use stop-loss?

I'd round up the bros, get a lawyer(s), talk to JQP...and FENCE-IN...

[FUEL]

I read the new "RPA talking points" the other day and all I saw was 30 "traditional" pilots being extended 1 year. I'm assuming that meant extend from return to manned flying, but I'll try and get them to post tomorrow. It was the cliff notes of "we have a problem"... "its big"... "here's what we're doing in the short term to fix this, but its not a long term solution"... words words words, sounds right, words words, but we don't believe it, word words, stop the paper before we have to talk about what we won't sacrifice (F-35, all desired future war capabilities... let's stop loss instead)

[pawnman]

I don't see how the AF is going to get away with this...you guys need to band together and fight this shit in the court / public domain (if it is true). It is one thing to stop-loss in-order to fight a ground war...it is another to use it as a tool to correct your shitty personnel system, to add additional commitments to guys/gals who have already served lengthy commitments. And what war are they implementing this for? Congress hasn't declared war? If this logic holds up, then we can just get rid of any bonus's, ADSCs, just use stop-loss?

I'd round up the bros, get a lawyer(s), talk to JQP...and FENCE-IN...

Fight in court...based on what, exactly? Last time I checked, stop loss was completely legal. Just ask all the poor bastards in the Army who were stop lossed to serve another tour in Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

I'd have to check the eligibility tables, but if I remember correctly 11U and 18X were ineligible just like 11Fs were - based on your core AFSC. I was one who tried desperately twice to escape this sinking ship last year.

I still can't figure why they didn't cross flow more guys to RPAs instead of paying them to leave and waiving UPT ADSC.

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My understanding is that the biggest hurdle is capacity for training. It doesn't help that much if you have 100 guys cross-flowed, but can only train 10 at a time (numbers are completely made up).

[Prozac]

I would hope Big Blue would have some serious explaining to do in Congress if they implemented stop loss now. It is a program meant for use in extreme national emergencies. It was not intended as a tool to cover for this organization's complete ineptitude when it comes to managing personnel. While it may technically be legal, you'd better believe I'd be on the phone with my representatives raising holy hell if I found out I was being Stop Loss'd.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Prozac

[Jaded]

Anybody have the stop loss statute handy? I'd like to see if it states reasons that stop loss may be implemented.

[mp5g]

Title 10, United States Code, Section 12305(a)

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/pdf/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleE-partII-chap1209-sec12305.pdf

[BCan]

Fight in court...based on what, exactly? Last time I checked, stop loss was completely legal. Just ask all the poor bastards in the Army who were stop lossed to serve another tour in Afghanistan and/or Iraq.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40121.pdf

I'd say a good set of lawyers could pick-apart this law when utilized to retain CONUS based UAS operators...but then again...I'm not a lawyer. The link is an interesting read on how the stop-loss program unfolded since DS1.

Edited May 26, 2015 by BCan

[Bergman]

While it may technically be legal, you'd better believe I'd be on the phone with my representatives raising holy hell if I found out I was being Stop Loss'd.

Wait, isn't that akin to treason??

[Nineline]

Wait, isn't that akin to treason??

Yes, but only if you're a stop lossed A-10 pilot.

-9-

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[HU&W]

Yes, but only if you're a stop lossed A-10 pilot.

-9-

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Why would they stop loss A-10 pilots? I thought we didn't need those anymore.

[BFM this]

I read the new "RPA talking points" the other day and all I saw was 30 "traditional" pilots being extended 1 year. I'm assuming that meant extend from return to manned flying, but I'll try and get them to post tomorrow. It was the cliff notes of "we have a problem"... "its big"... "here's what we're doing in the short term to fix this, but its not a long term solution"... words words words, sounds right, words words, but we don't believe it, word words, stop the paper before we have to talk about what we won't sacrifice (F-35, all desired future war capabilities... let's stop loss instead)

There were several initiatives outlined in those "RPA talking points" that had me scratching my head. If you noticed, it also said they were exploring the idea of UPT direct… Again.

Learning is hard.

[Karl Hungus]

Learning is hard.

Leading is hard. Hence, we have managers.

[Sim]

I'm actually dreading checking my email tomorrow morning. ###### my life.

ing eh! I just got out of that shit-hole. While leaving, they promised that they will recall dudes that left if something comes up. Is there any more info?

[guineapigfury]

Fucking eh! I just got out of that shit-hole. While leaving, they promised that they will recall dudes that left if something comes up. Is there any more info?

Nothing yet. I think if i'm going to get stop-lossed, then I deserve the courtesy of there being a declared war.

[Bender]

Nothing yet. I think if i'm going to get stop-lossed, then I deserve the courtesy of there being a declared war.

That's cute; maybe if things worked they way they should. The "must move" suck is in full effect, I believe stop loss is not here, yet.

We're forced into sending our good guys to RPAs, but they "spare" the "stratified" guys/gals for the other assignments. Who's going to fix this? We've sent top people, well AFPC has, but we spared our leaders at all opportunity.

Who's going to fix this? Me? I volunteered to go to this shit at a point in my career where this should be fun (mostly). [i'm a major now, believe that shit?] I'll take it on, but as a DO or SQ/CC, you aren't doing anything beyond mitigation here with the authority I've seen to date. Whose is going to fix this? If I try, will I just end up fired?

I've seen #1/150 go to RPAs without a notice or a complaint...

I've seen a guy get "protected" because we happened to send him to the wing...

I've seen us take a "as #1/731" and give them a bomber...

#1/731...young captain too...if that person shouldn't lead our UAV core, who should? Me?

I'll do my best. The deck is stack against us...by us.

Weird,

Bendy

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bender