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To piggyback on ViperMan, nuance is great and all, but some things are self evident, no nuance required: - The American political system is better than Russia’s. Despite all our flaws, I’ll take a representative democracy over Putin’s kleptocracy every time. - The liberal world order (again, I’ll remind the less educated amongst us that “liberal” does not refer to US domestic politics here) established after WWII is better than an alternative where strong countries simply take what they want. The “establishment” that Putin and his apologists like to rail against has kept the peace for seven decades. Some of us have become so accustomed to that peace that it’s become hard to believe that it’s not just the de facto state of the world. It’s not. It takes a lot of work. - Invading a sovereign nation, no matter what cultural and ethnic ties you think you have, is wrong. That’s it. No need for discussion (or nuance). Respect for sovereignty is a key to peace in the modern world. It should be defended vigorously by anyone who doesn’t want to see the planet flattened by war. I could go on. Point being, there’s no gray area to hang out in here. No we aren’t perfect. Yes, we have our problems, some of them major. Despite all of that, we are objectively better than the alternative, regardless of which party is in power, regardless of our internal differences. Objectively. Better. Full stop. I choose to support OUR institutions, flawed though they may be, because it’s a far better option than operating in the wilderness of thought where the Russian and Chinese fact twisters want us. There are forces in this world that are true existential threats to our way of life. They are NOT your neighbor with the coexist bumper sticker (naive as he may be) or the Trump flag on his truck. They are not even Nancy Pelosi (who I guarantee you is FAR more of a free market advocate than Putin or Xi), or Mitch McConnell. It continuously blows my mind that some of us continue to point fingers at each other when there is no shit, painfully obvious evil rearing it’s head in the world with despots outright stating their desire to destroy western cultural values. It’s time to recognize what’s right in front of our faces, put our differences aside for a bit, and start pulling in the same direction.

Let me clarify for you @BashiChuni. That post was getting long and fairly unwieldy and I didn't want the main point to be lost. I guess it was. One of my other points was to say that there is a log jam of BS making its way through our collective system right now under the cover of "nuance" - in quotes. "Nuanced" positions on who is at fault in the Russia/Ukraine war fall squarely into that category. It's become highly fashionable to stake out a "nuanced" position on some topic in the world. "Look at how smart my opinion is!" "Look ma, both sides of the issue!" All I can say is no shit, there are two sides to an issue - people are fighting, duh. Take the Russian war in Ukraine as an example. "Nuance" has gotten some of us thinking that we are in the wrong on this one. "Nuance" gets us talking about the Gulf of Tonkin, COVID response, the Iran contra affair, Iraq '03, the moon landing, that the Earth is flat (which it is), etc, etc. Not all those topics, of course, but the point is that someone will always point to some instance in history where we probably fucked something up (or there's at least the perception that we did) and use it to score points presently. In short, the purpose of "nuance" is to place hand-cuffs on a given entity - in this case us. "As if" is my only response. Always thinking of the world in terms of "nuance" and "shades of gray" are their own memes. The world is more black and white than most of us now-a-days probably think. Putin has absolutely no moral authority or legitimate reason for his adventure in Ukraine - how incompetent America is at home or abroad doesn't change that one iota. Putin started this war. He drew first blood. It's his war to end. Us backing down or being "fearful" of escalating is going to get us more of the same. He needs to be made to fear for his life. IMO, we don't need "nuanced" opinions coming from soldiers who might be called upon to fight a war that sprouts out of this current conflict. Just ask Putin's troops how their moral is doing. Or how their shit feels when it's moving in the wrong direction. Probably a lot worse than "pretty darn good." "NATO expansion became an excuse post facto..." for Russian militarism and autocracy. "The ability of countries to determine their own foreign policy and their alliances, is written into the UN Charter...written into the 1975 Helsinki act...written into the 1990 charter of Paris for a new Europe...written into the 1997 NATO-Russia founding act...Russia's signature is on every one of those documents. Moscow signed the UN Charter, it signed the Helsinki final act...signed the NATO-Russia founding act that places no limits on NATO expansion..." etc, etc. I've posted this before, but it contains a density of fact that really should be grasped by anyone wearing a uniform who might have a "nuanced" opinion on who is to blame for this current war. I don't want to come across as saying that people shouldn't have nuanced opinions or that all stones shouldn't be overturned, so don't walk away with that message, either. I'm just saying that when you have very strong opinions, which are not based in fact (because in fact you don't know and will never know), there is another - unspoken - reason why you have that opinion, whether or not you admit it to yourself. I MFing guarantee you that no one getting shelled in Ukraine thinks of this as "nuanced".

I recently listened to a podcast hosted by the Federalist (right wing), and I was startled by the nonchalance John Davidson was able to claim the US sabotaged the pipeline. He did so without evidence (https://www.spreaker.com/user/10614200/populism-keeps-surging-across-the-west). I posted the link for reference, not as a recommendation to listen to it. Don't. I consider(ed?) the Federalist a legitimate source (albeit right wing), but needless to say, I'll be far more suspect of what else I hear come from them going forward. Why I bring it up is because I see the same thing from some on this message board, and from many others on the right side of the isle (which I am part of). I find this highly incongruent, actually. In my view, this default position has less to do with the goodness or badness of the action per se, and much more to do with the fact that it's being carried out by the Biden administration and is therefore necessarily wrong. Get over it. Putin is the one making threats. Not Europe. Not Biden. Not the USA. Not Trump. Pick your side. Your fear of "risking escalation" strengthens Putin's ability to escalate. Want to see him STFU? Next time he makes a nuclear threat, we indicate we will respond in kind on behalf of Ukraine. Fuck it, let's say we did blow it up: Putin threatens to cut off Europe from gas as strategic leverage, and we blow the pipeline up, thereby taking away his ability to leverage acquiescence from European governments, you know, a "burn the fleet" "shoot the hostage" type of logic. Fairly brilliant if you ask me. Maybe we should blow up NS1 in a couple months. Followed by others as time goes on. Maybe Putin will start to realize that oil flows in one direction, but money flows in the other. Yes, the administration is incompetent, has lost all SA, and seems to be doing its best to drive wedges wherever they can. And yeah, on about 99.9% (repeating of course) of issues, they've made objectively bad decisions. Be that as it may, it doesn't necessarily mean everything they do is wrong by default - all things and decisions should be judged according to their own merit, and in the case of the Russian war in Ukraine, we are doing good things, notwithstanding the likely fact that our spectacle of retreat in Afghanistan probably signaled to Putin (et al) that now would be a good time to get started with those war plans - but that's another discussion. That is what I think is a blind spot on the right - the unwillingness to give any credit even in places where it may be due. Lest we forget, this war started before the current admin was in power. No one on this message board knows - or ever will know - exactly what happened or who sabotaged the pipeline. Unless you're someone special, that is a fact. Another fact is that in each of us there is something that wants the world to be like a Tom Clancy movie - with clear cut lines of conspiracy and wrong doing. That fact is really what drives such strong opinions on matters like this, because in all truth not one of us knows. You don't know because you typed some URL in your interweb browser and read someone else's opinion/analysis. For my part, I strongly, strongly discount the possibility we did it, if for no other reason than the risk/reward ratio is way, way too high. The payoff? Very little. The potential cost if it was discovered that we unilaterally destroyed the pipeline? Well, we just achieved one of Putin's major objectives by getting NATO to act against itself. It's so unlikely, it's crazy and conspiratorial to consider it a possibility, given these realities. Insane even. The chances Putin did it? Nearly 100%. It lets him generate propaganda within and outside his country, and if it is ever discovered for certain that he did blow it up, well there are no political consequences because it belonged to him anyway. So there is a far higher payoff to risk ratio on his side as far as I can tell. All in all, I don't really care. We probably didn't do it, but if we did, I'm fine with it because it ultimately takes away leverage Putin thought he had. Putin is wrong. We are right. He should stop. It's that simple.

With any luck that new RAND corporation look alike whose reports you found so interesting in the Russia-Ukraine thread will publish a paper confirming that the US is indeed responsible. One can further hope that they tie it to whatever the global Monkeypox conspiracy currently is and we can revive that thread over in the Squadron Bar. FWIW, I've read several convincing reports on the dark web claiming that Jurgen Procknow has re-joined the Kriegsmarine and is gunning for one last shot at glory. Lotta people are speculating he hit the pipeline since he's old and doesn't drive so great anymore. It'd be pretty tough to get him down the ladder of the conning tower at his age but let's be real, you just can't replicate that experience level.

Wow, those police have the patience of Job, my hat is off to them for their composure.

Quick sidebar: I wanted to point out that PA or the esteemed editors over at Airforcetimes.com have once again absolutely nailed their reporting.

I’m not sure why you’re catching flak. On record, POTUS says we will end NS2 if Russia invades Ukraine with tanks and troops. Russia invaded, and the pipeline is now inoperative. Why are people implying that the US is incapable of following up on that threat? Furthermore, why are people saying torqued is buying Russian propaganda? Was Biden deep-faked in that press conference?

I don’t understand your point, perhaps you could elaborate on what subjects are and are not off-limits to discuss? Critical thinking and questioning the official narrative and listening to enemy propaganda would have helped our nation slow down the rush to war in Iraq circa 2003, and potentially have prevented that entire useless catastrophe. Of note, the “enemy propaganda” that they had no WMD turned out to be true. And our CIA expert analysis was false. Putin is a dictator, war criminal, and prolific propagandist. But when something strange happens in the world, there’s nothing wrong with asking a few questions. I guess I am a free-speech extremist.

If a person doesn’t blindly and dutifully fall in line with the official government narrative (one that continuously demonstrates it’s ability to screw up), they’re parroting Russian propaganda. Every troublesome domestic issue isn’t a real issue or concern, but the evil machinations of a foreign propaganda arm that permeates every facet of our society, but can’t win a battle in its own backyard or even convince its own citizens to fight the West. sounds reasonable. Those are awfully convenient positions to take as they allow for no critical thinking, no dissent, no questions. A familiar tactic of late. Who is falling into whose trap?

Then maybe consider not re-posting the adversary’s propaganda. You don’t like the current politicians running the country. Fine. You don’t like them so much you’re willing to amplify Russian propaganda (Don’t fool yourself. That’s EXACTLY what you’re doing.)? Not fine. You’re falling into the Russian trap. You know, the one where they amplify our political and cultural differences & try to convince us that the real enemy is the hipster in the pussy hat or the neighbor with the gun collection and not the belligerent dictator seizing land & committing atrocities overseas? Putin’s an ocean away after all. What threat could he possibly be to us when we have so many existential threats right in our own neighborhoods? Standing by for downvotes from the usual suspects…

And what the fuck does this diatribe on pro-American democracy have to do with blowing a pipeline?

When does the statute of limitations for my "ancestors were slaves" run out? I hope our country does not have to listen to this crap for the next 1000 years.

Songtan has that effect.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/how-a-houston-couple-scored-a-dozen-full-auto-m16s/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20220930_FridayDigest_402g&utm_campaign=/digest/how-a-houston-couple-scored-a-dozen-full-auto-m16s/

Just did, three times. Besides momentarily thinking I saw Biggie Smalls in the background, nothing happened.

Ha!! Your original post (before you edited it) might be one of the strangest flexes I've seen on Baseops in a hot minute. So you've been around a while, knew the founder of Baseops, have had lots of conversations, and probably knew BQZip's mom. Cool story Hansel. In regards to "original thoughts" Tucker Carlson's show on 28 Sep and the American Conservative (just to name a few) both drove the narrative that the US did this. I'm sure you thought of it first though. I had no idea that the center of resistance to the global monkeypox conspiracy was right here on Baseops forums. Learn something new everyday. One can only hope that with this experience we'll be better prepared for the next global elite disease conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids (or whatever that one was supposedly about). I'll leave it there with what I think is currently the funniest (but not my favorite) conspiracy theory out there.

It looks like she's hungover.

How is it some of you still cannot distinguish between a criticism of an entire country and a tiny portion of it's leadership? That's a bad question, because I know you can, and you are intentionally being disingenuous by conflating the two. It's similar to how real propaganda actually works. If someone were to be "amplifying" Russian propaganda, then Russia would have been the originator of said propaganda. After reading your post, I honestly went looking for Russia's claims the the US had sabotaged the pipeline. I found two things: - A Russian official said that any claim they had sabotaged their own pipeline was "stupid". - Russia asked Biden to clarify who actually destroyed the Nordstream 2. Maybe you can find something more propagandaish. Aside from my initial sarcasm, my other posts regarding this topic were just factual reports by Western media. Put them side by side, and it doesn't take any logical gymnastics to form a reasonable hypothesis that maybe it wasn't Russia. Do you honestly think what we're experiencing is "great international tension" and not a war? What did we just spend another $12 Billion United States Dollars on yet again today? Diplomacy? Consider that I, and others, are giving you a mere hypothesis substantiated with factual information from Western sources, but yet you're not able to provide anything other than effectively crossing your arms, shaking your head, and saying "Nuh-uhh, you just hate your country."

That is probably my favorite music video of all time…thanks for the smile dude.

I believe you should always question things. as you said gulf war 2 and wmd’s, gulf of Tonkin etc…I can’t understand how 1 party can question conflict then blindly follow domestic orders. (Covid) and vice versa. also….don’t forget a few years ago russia hacked the colonial pipeline and shut it down. That line is the main artery for fuel on the east coast. A lot more damage could have been done.

Yeah, must be a real idiot. Your litmus test is legit.

Dude it’s because you’re blaming your own country based on theory and conjecture. You’ve come up with a hypothesis based on news articles. Were it an airplane accident, the cultural mantra of “wait until the investigation is complete” would’ve stopped you from publicly drawing conclusions. Yet in this case, you’re willing to do so and throw your own country under the bus. For nothing. That’s why people hate conspiracy theorists.

Fantastic video from Grass Valley Tanker Base this season, features two (maybe 3) AF vets..

I bet the majority of dudes stay in the same airframe, except for maybe a stint at UPT. That should be the expectation. Switching of course happens, but don’t expect it/plan on it.

Dillon Vakoff -a former 1C for the 96th BS at Barksdale- was something that was right in the AF, and a good person that the Red Devils enjoyed on their team. https://kdvr.com/news/local/officer-vakoff-heart-of-gold-always-smiling/

Problem is, neither of these groups know what they’re talking about. LTs are as dumb as a container of rocks, and Lt Cols are far too removed from these types of programs to know any better either (especially if they’re teaching at the zoo). Go find the Capts out there who can give you the real scoop.

Ultimate slap in the face to your opponent is when you put meme's directly on your aircraft

Seriously? It starts with a reading room in the library, it evolves into a CBT and culminates with a new policy requiring the same in every squadron. Slow erosion of common sense often goes unnoticed or unchallenged until you wake up in a dystopian world where the laws of physics no longer make sense.

On a serious note, you should check out the financials and board members for CSIS. Try to look in the mirror and say "There is no bias or conflict of interest here" with a straight face.

Free speech is great. You can say whatever you like. It’s a two way street though so don’t get all butthurt when someone calls you out on your bullshit. I stand by my assertion that amplifying enemy propaganda is not something that someone who loves their country generally does. I personally do not consider baseless accusations of one’s own country committing an act of war during a time of great international tension to be just “asking a few questions”.

That wasn't interesting to you? I agree it was likely fake and I made no claims to it's authenticity. I just said it was making the rounds in German media and thought it contained some interesting concepts. Because I knew it couldn't be verified, I immediately followed it up with an actual RAND report to similar effect from the RAND website which you conveniently forgot to mention. Monkeypox? Oh, yeah... I remember that. Thanks, you just gave me a thought: Isn't it incredibly fascinating how the entire thing simply vanished into thin air, with a day or two, after the official narrative was called into question and subsequently ridiculed and mocked by countless people across social media and forums like this? Obviously, all those people hated America. I'm going to go ahead and take a little bit of credit for that. You're welcome. I take it you somehow escaped infection. As for the rest of your attempted insult, I have no idea what you're wasting keystrokes on. Quick question: would you mind pointing me in the direction of an original thought you've had here that isn't just repeating an official narrative? No? Then don't forget to tilt your head back and relax your throat for the next WH press briefing. 😄 Please don't take this post personally. I just had a couple beers with dinner and I think you're hilarious. All in fun.