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Truth We had one crash them into each other, drop one and then step on it.

Let's take all of the assumptions in your first paragraph to be true, then that order wouldn't be a lawful order because it lacks military neccesity. All orders have to have military neccesity, regardless of the context.

All too many threads have become politically charged (guilty myself), so let's have at least one thread to lighten things up.

doesn't matter the vax has been proven to not work. the requirement should be dropped immediately. if other countries have a problem with that then maybe we shouldn't be "deployed" there in the first place

what about CONTINUING to order a vax that is PROVEN to not be effective? the military member is NOT protected by taking this vax. how about that?! this is a pure MONEY GRAB by big pharma....a industry that only a few years ago was the target of the left, but MAGICALLY now is the medical jesus of all leftists and "critical thinkers"

Trustee, FPC Montgomery would be nice.

@Waingro Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

I'll bite. Good. And let's go into this assuming that the effects of the virus are overblown, and that the vaccine was overpromised and underdelivered. And that this isn't in fact a readiness issue. All of that aside, a segment of the population decided to ignore a military order. It shouldn't matter if they were first-term Airmen handing out volleyballs, or AETC instructor pilots. Either way, their actions are not compatible with military service in an all-volunteer force. They should be shown the door, honorably. Not punitively. Absolve all ADSCs and bonus repayments, just a quick date of separation and an honorable discharge. Nobody is forced to be here.

Yup. This covers it. We are talking about removing *basic* flying instruction. The whole reason sims work for planes like the KC-135 and 767 is because the foundation was laid in smaller planes, in the real world. And even then, guys don't go from the sim to the real plane without xx hours of supervision with a CKA. I'm surprised that anyone who actually taught phase 2 would think this was a good idea. Any time there was bad weather or MX issues that kept a student out of the jet for a week, they suffered greatly no matter how many intervening Sims they had. Hell, many were barely capable with the hours they had. Fewer now?

Not a JB guy, but it looks legit.

“Tower, 3 o’clock low, no factor”

That's a pretty high bar to clear. What about off-limits locales in town? Double hearing protection required? Reflective belts? Flu vaccine? Buddy requirements downtown on a TDY? E-4s and below can't drive cars? We have to work on Sundays, my holy day of rest? That's all really subjective. Ordering a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic doesn't break the noise threshold in terms of military necessity. This vaccine for this virus looks like a gross overreaction in hindsight. Sort of like the anthrax vaccine. Or smallpox for that matter. But here we are, and those who chose to disobey what's pretty plainly a lawful order, should get a handshake, a litho, and a DD-214.

but thankfully you've been vaxed/boosted and your symptoms are mild /s

covid is going to go down as one of the largest scams in world history.

Phenomenal shot of a Russian’s joyride cut tragically short.

Pfizer's CEO yesterday: "Google, what is the largest criminal settlement?" https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=largest+criminal+settlement

Indeed. I was (voluntarily) vaccinated with Pfizer on Jun/Jul of last year. Right now I have COVID for the second time, and it's been full COVID, like a bad flu. But this was never about science.

yep:

I heard it was last night for kettles. How this likely played out… 8.0 hrs later and 69 kettles deep: “Fuck you DAK, I’m not paying 10000 WON for a 2 min ride!” (it was actually a 30 min ride, they were just passed out). One guy proceeds to swing at cabbie, who punches him right in the gut, causing him to projectile vomit; his buddy sympathetic vomits. Town patrol walks around the corner at this exact moment…and the rest is history. I need one more week in Korea before I retire, what a place!

I hear this counter argument quite a bit, it’s not an apples to apples comparison. There’s a reason why the FAA changed the minimum hours needs for the ATP, and why a restricted ATP exists. Inexperienced guys were bending metal and killing people and it made the FAA realize that 250 hour first officers was dangerous. Airlines don’t teach guys with ~200 hours, they teach guys with minimum of 750 hours for prior military, or 1,000-1,500 hours for civilians, depending on how they got those hours. That’s potentially ~550-1250 hours more than a dude right out of flight school. That extra flight time makes a huge difference. The airlines sim is more of a top off for an already experienced pilot instead of teaching a brand new pilot how to fly the plane in actual airspace while refining their airmanship.

If king for a day... Outsource initial ME training, give studs about 15 - 20 hours at All ATPs or other school to get initial ME training. Next training is 50 hours in a light biz jet with type training done at Flight Safety, CAE, etc... not a type check just training and the check is passing the AF program. Last phase is in a Twin Otter or other rugged fixed gear ME type for STOL, Off Airport TO/LND, Tac Approaches, etc... figure about 20 hours. Honestly, if you wanna save money on Heavy / Crew bound studs consolidate all Phase 3 for them at one base with good WX, a few airports nearby and some ranges/terrain. SW USA somewhere Don't min run training AF for what will be almost half of your rated officer force, you will regret it in the long run.

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded. Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded. 19AF/CC has already prohibited all TDYs for unvaccinated personnel prior to this new policy. Apparently the "pilot crisis" can't be too bad if they're willing to cut UPT and FTU production by grounding AETC IPs for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as. Edited to add: Unvaxxed AETC IPs have been flying the line with and alongside like their vaxxed counterparts for over 6 months now with absolutely no issues whatsover. There is no logical argument to ground these people from flying while still allowing them to work and sim in close proximity to everyone else. This policy is completely about power and has zero to do with protecting people or making the workplace safer. --Break, break-- How come no one is asking why it's been almost a year since the Comrinaty was approved and we still have no FDA approved vaccine available in the U.S.? Could it be that Pfizer doesn't want to be liable for any lawsuits since they are protected from such under the EUA? If so, why would they be worried about lawsuits if the vaccine is indeed safe and effective? -9-

were getting played by ukraine. how many more BILLIONS are we going to give them?

Having now done all manner of sim- and aircraft-training, there's simply no comparing the two in the early phases of training. Hell, one of the biggest weaknesses in MAF was the lack of raw stick-and-rudder flying ability. That comes from the smaller planes that don't translate well in Sims. We should also dispense with the "modernizing" argument. Today's sim technology has been around for decades, and the AF didn't decide to "modernize" until a manning and resource shortage. This is about cutting costs, and the results will be predictable.

Or maybe that?