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Promotion and PRF Information

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Good luck.  That's a pretty good record.  Even if you don't make it this year, it looks like a pretty sure thing for next year's board.

Thanks pawnman.   Same to you amigo.   

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I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

It was held up due to pushback from the SECDEF office if I remember correctly. We had a couple brothers on here effected where their names were pulled from both the “select” and “non-select” lists pending an appeal from the AF on why they should be promoted.


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6 hours ago, Spaceballs said:

I wonder how the promotion board would know that. Maybe it's even a different level somewhere higher that's disagreeing with the 100% policy and trying to sift through records for DUI's, etc? I don't know. It just doesn't make sense that 100% promotion would need to take half a year or more to get approved. On that note though, why would it take months for any board to be approved once the board adjourns?

Ref my post from last year:

On 8/16/2018 at 5:16 PM, Breckey said:

So I was briefed on an interesting tidbit regarding the 09 Majors board today. Apparently there is a new (~5 Jul 18) congressional report that is required to be run by the services IG concerning officer eligibility for promotion. This system was already in place for O-6+, however not for the lower ranks. Anybody that is up for promotion that has had a "public" negative indicator will be reviewed at a later time as was mentioned earlier. The main driver for this may have been some Missileers that were involved in the Malmstrom cheating scandal in 2014. Although their LORs were removed from their UIF in the intervening years, their records are being further scrutinized since they were involved in a very public scandal. Hopefully the process will be further vetted for the later year groups (10-11) that were also heavily involved. This new scrutiny caught many O-6 off guard as well.

 

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6 minutes ago, ExCONS said:

Would this same thing be slowing down the USAFR O-4 results? It’s been sitting with OSD for over a month. 

Yep.  That IG guidance now applies to all officer promotions, even the 100% ones.

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Mypers shows the last update point on their timeline was at the USecAF office in late January.

 

... government efficiency at it's finest.

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17 hours ago, pawnman said:

 

I also advise all the young LTs going through the school house to write a 1206 every quarter.  At the major level, your commander should know you personally, at least in the flying community.  But at the LT level, your commander probably has less interaction with you.  Writing a 1206 every quarter puts your accomplishments in front of the boss four times a year, making it easier for him to write the bottom line on that OPR once a year.

I think that is horrible advice. Not a spear just my opinion. 

Shouldnt LTs going thru a school house focus on their tactical proficiency?

It speaks poorly of how we groom our officers that brand new LTs need to write their own awards every quarter. 

Edited by BashiChuni
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7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I think that is horrible advice. Not a spear just my opinion. 

Shouldnt LTs going thru a school house focus on their tactical proficiency?

It speaks poorly of how we groom our officers that brand new LTs need to write their own awards every quarter. 

Yes.  That 30 minutes every three months will really erode their tactical proficiency.
Again, this is why the support officers outperform flyers on promotion boards.  Because flyers scoff the things that promotion boards value.  Those LTs writing 1206s are 1. getting some form of recognition from their boss every quarter and 2. learning to write 1206s so that when they are the FLT/CC or ADO, they can polish their subordinates' 1206s to a fine glow.  We've already seen one person advocating for submitting others for awards...I don't know about y'all, but I haven't often seen someone submit a 1206 for a person outside their chain of command.
Finally, I'll say it again...you're also screwing over your SQ/CCE, who has to submit these awards to the SQ/CC and the OG/CC by a certain date, by just refusing to write them.  If everyone in the squadron thought the way you guys do, it wouldn't be a refreshing experience for the SQ/CC.  He'd be embarrassed at every OG staff meeting. 

"Not one of your people was good enough to submit for an award this quarter?  Not a single one?  What kind of squadron are you running over there?"

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Yes.  That 30 minutes every three months will really erode their tactical proficiency.
Again, this is why the support officers outperform flyers on promotion boards.  Because flyers scoff the things that promotion boards value.  Those LTs writing 1206s are 1. getting some form of recognition from their boss every quarter and 2. learning to write 1206s so that when they are the FLT/CC or ADO, they can polish their subordinates' 1206s to a fine glow.  We've already seen one person advocating for submitting others for awards...I don't know about y'all, but I haven't often seen someone submit a 1206 for a person outside their chain of command.
Finally, I'll say it again...you're also screwing over your SQ/CCE, who has to submit these awards to the SQ/CC and the OG/CC by a certain date, by just refusing to write them.  If everyone in the squadron thought the way you guys do, it wouldn't be a refreshing experience for the SQ/CC.  He'd be embarrassed at every OG staff meeting. 

"Not one of your people was good enough to submit for an award this quarter?  Not a single one?  What kind of squadron are you running over there?"

I think you make some decent points, but I can't agree with you here. In my last 2 squadrons the commander and the flight commanders sat in a room once a quarter for an hour or less, hashed out who had done what, decided on the best and then tagged that persons flight commander to write a 1206. Never had to explain why the squadron didn't submit a 1206, and no one ever put themselves in for an award. It also gave the commander some insight on what the younger guys were up too.

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17 minutes ago, MCO said:

I think you make some decent points, but I can't agree with you here. In my last 2 squadrons the commander and the flight commanders sat in a room once a quarter for an hour or less, hashed out who had done what, decided on the best and then tagged that persons flight commander to write a 1206. Never had to explain why the squadron didn't submit a 1206, and no one ever put themselves in for an award. It also gave the commander some insight on what the younger guys were up too.

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

Edited by pawnman
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23 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

It may actually be the system working correctly.  Leadership sits down and discusses who deserves awards based on what their people did over the quarter/year, then documents it on paper.  That's got to be better than doling out awards based on who can write the most polished bullets ("you don't get awards, your 1206s get awards").

In units that did that, I usually saw the ADOs draft the 1206s for flt/ccs, and the DO or CC did the FGO 1206s.

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53 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So, instead of using the 1206s to judge award winners, you decided the winners then wrote the 1206.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we complain about in the assignment and promotion system?

I'm also curious... Who wrote the Flt/CC awards if no one wrote their own?

Flight commanders didn’t win too often because they usually didn’t push themselves, so the commander, DO or other flight commanders would push them. If they won then they would help the ADO write it. Helping write your own because you were selected is a lot different than expecting half the squadron the write 1206s on themselves to help the exec.

And everyone has an opinion but I liked the system because of what Raimius said. Winning based on the paper and not what you actually did is a problem in my opinion. Writing the 1206 for the person that kicked ass and deserves it in order to let them compete at the next level is doing it right.

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Do your communities not have a Flt/CC OTQ award along with CGO, FGO, etc?

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11 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

777   :beer:

God damn thank you sir I got a casino trip end of the month 5% of my winnings coming your way

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38 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

God damn thank you sir I got a casino trip end of the month 5% of my winnings coming your way

Down voted for 777 maintenance.

And I started this, btw. You can at least throw a couple percent my way.

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1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

Down voted for 777 maintenance.

And I started this, btw. You can at least throw a couple percent my way.

Agreed. 5% your way as wel!

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2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Agreed. 5% your way as wel!

You're about to be at 777 posts so... what then?

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26 minutes ago, Klepto said:

You're about to be at 777 posts so... what then?

Never walk away from a thread on a heater.

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How does outplacement from school work? Is it based highly on your staff vector or is it based on your performance in school? Once people go to school the whole career process thereafter seems like secret squirrel magic. 

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Thanks @frog, @Duck, and @Breckey on the info about the boards. It’s a whole process up there I have no idea about. 

 

@pawnman / everyone else,

 

I see all the posts talking about strats and awards being so important for promotion. Have you seen people who have gone the breadth of experience compete well with those who have depth? Any example I’ve thought about, the depth just seems much more promotable on paper.

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Spaceballs said:

Thanks @frog, @Duck, and @Breckey on the info about the boards. It’s a whole process up there I have no idea about. 

 

@pawnman / everyone else,

 

I see all the posts talking about strats and awards being so important for promotion. Have you seen people who have gone the breadth of experience compete well with those who have depth? Any example I’ve thought about, the depth just seems much more promotable on paper.

 

 

 

 

My experience is the opposite.  People who stay in the community and become experts in the B-1 usually don't do as well as people who do literally anything else - UPT, ALO, staff, etc.

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

My experience is the opposite.  People who stay in the community and become experts in the B-1 usually don't do as well as people who do literally anything else - UPT, ALO, staff, etc.

It blew my mind when my leadership removed the number of weapon systems I've qualified in from my PRF top line and threw DG in its place. I'm not a Col or Lt Col from the support side, so maybe they know more than we do on the flying side. I thought it was relevant, but I'm just a major. DG was listed on line two for awards, which is standard across all MAJCOMs I believe. And I noticed a "double dip" as well.

Edited by Shazaam

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

My experience is the opposite.  People who stay in the community and become experts in the B-1 usually don't do as well as people who do literally anything else - UPT, ALO, staff, etc.

Funny. In cyber it was different.  Moved on to training (UCT, Academy, SOS, etc.) you're "outside the community" and it was a black mark.

That history has come back to haunt us, that now no one wants to go to our school houses and instruct.  We've got the new program coming out for "priority placement" or whatever where you can opt in/out on MyVector. Across the whole 67 CW...4 officers have opted in. 1 Lt Col, 1 Capt, 2 Lt's.

I opted out immediately.  I don't care what "notes" the CSAF sends the promotion boards, the shoes running them don't care, and I know too many O6's who just do it their way anyway.

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7 hours ago, Klepto said:

You're about to be at 777 posts so... what then?

i wont post again...time to create a SOCK!!!

 

Danger41 you're at 777 posts and 772 rep...the lucky 7's are here!

Edited by BashiChuni
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