Changing/Switching airframes

[LoveDumpster 8]

15 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

Fellas, it's a complete buyers market right now.  Due to every swinging dick Major and their mother punching out, Big Blue is getting desperate to keep dudes in.  I came from the C-130J community, and I've heard from bros that Sq/CCs are telling dudes to put down their wildest dreams on their ADP or whatever the it's called now and they will fight to make it happen.  The chips are in your stack; time to bet big and make them fold.  You're a heavy driver and want to fly bombers?  Ask.  If they say no, give them both fingers as you walk out the door and walk straight into a ANG/AFRC unit of your choice and apply.  Don't want to fly after AD?  You're in luck, because every major is hiring anyone with a pulse right now.  You've never had more power.  Use it wisely.

I love the enthusiasm and the positive attitude, but I haven't really seen this on the tanker side. Unless you're picked up for some special program like Phoenix, you're not being released unless it's to pay UPT bills. I'd love to go fly a strike aircraft or something more tactical, especially after watching those guys rain hate in the sandbox. But from what I understand, if you didn't fly a T-38 in UPT that isn't happening - unless you somehow work a board like said ex-135 driver did. 

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

[SFG 168]

7 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

Why do you think this is the case?  Do you think the ARC is such a second string option that you don't need cred to be a commander?  C'mon man, you can't be that far under a rock?  

I hope he’s giving the ARC the benefit of the doubt, that they would be more open-minded and sensible then active duty.

Some of the best pilots I’ve seen have been mechanical crossflow guys and some of the best commanders I’ve seen have been Phoenix guys. Hard to beat the experience of seeing the world from different perspectives, in aviation or elsewhere. 

I’ve also seen terrible crossflow guys from both avenues, so YMMV. 

Crossflows have the opportunity to be real value added... instead of just reading other aircrafts 3-1s/3s they’ve been there and done that... and they ought to be pretty good sticks. They can make the communities they touch better by sharing lessons-learned and teaching the young guys about the bigger picture.

On the other hand there are always those who manage to stay inside the box and remain narrow in their thinking no matter how many opportunities they’ve been given.

BL is that folks should not be pre-judged and maybe in the ARC they’d get the chance to be looked at as individuals and less as numbers. Or maybe not.

The airlines seems to be the only good place to be just a number.

[12xu2a3x3 63]

7 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

Why do you think this is the case?  Do you think the ARC is such a second string option that you don't need cred to be a commander?  C'mon man, you can't be that far under a rock?  

No, not at all, in fact I think the opposite. To clarify, the ANG/AFRC seem to have a slightly broader aperture for evaluating who they put in leadership positions.To that end, I don’t think having flown a jet outside the one the squadron does is a non-starter, which outside of Phoenix Reach or the like seems to be the case sometimes.

(I came from the guard)

Edited December 28, 2019 by 12xu2a3x3

[EvilEagle 323]

Fair enough.  The way you phrased it sounded like you were saying if you aren't credible in the jet you can just go be a commander in the ARC because it won't matter.  Just caught me funny.  

 

I was a squadron CC in the ANG and looked at the guys that were CC's on AD in my community.  From many conversations with them it's a hell of a lot harder to be a CC in the ANG due to all the additional stuff that doesn't automatically happen (orders, recruiting, OTS, pipeline, etc).  If you don't have cred you won't get jack done for your guys - which is why you are a commander in the first place.  

[herkbum 249]

Fair enough.  The way you phrased it sounded like you were saying if you aren't credible in the jet you can just go be a commander in the ARC because it won't matter.  Just caught me funny.  
 
I was a squadron CC in the ANG and looked at the guys that were CC's on AD in my community.  From many conversations with them it's a hell of a lot harder to be a CC in the ANG due to all the additional stuff that doesn't automatically happen (orders, recruiting, OTS, pipeline, etc).  If you don't have cred you won't get jack done for your guys - which is why you are a commander in the first place.  

Shack


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[12xu2a3x3 63]

44 minutes ago, EvilEagle said:

Fair enough.  The way you phrased it sounded like you were saying if you aren't credible in the jet you can just go be a commander in the ARC because it won't matter.  Just caught me funny.

Yeah, I'm not the most articulate person, sorry.

45 minutes ago, EvilEagle said:

I was a squadron CC in the ANG and looked at the guys that were CC's on AD in my community.  From many conversations with them it's a hell of a lot harder to be a CC in the ANG due to all the additional stuff that doesn't automatically happen (orders, recruiting, OTS, pipeline, etc).  If you don't have cred you won't get jack done for your guys - which is why you are a commander in the first place.  

100% valid. i was a crew chief for an ANG fighter SQ/CC and heard pretty regularly about all those woes. he was a great guy who came from a long-ish active duty career. truly don't know if he could have been a commander in the active duty or not, but ultimately it's irrelevant because he excelled in the guard.

[viper154 311]

4 hours ago, LoveDumpster said:

I love the enthusiasm and the positive attitude, but I haven't really seen this on the tanker side. Unless you're picked up for some special program like Phoenix, you're not being released unless it's to pay UPT bills. I'd love to go fly a strike aircraft or something more tactical, especially after watching those guys rain hate in the sandbox. But from what I understand, if you didn't fly a T-38 in UPT that isn't happening - unless you somehow work a board like said ex-135 driver did. 

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

 I’m currently in a B course after a RPA tour, over the  last 6-9 months I have met probably 6-9 other crossflows dudes, some from RPAs, couple mil to mils, couple dudes just wanted to do something different and asked, couple were voluntold. 

Not saying you can move from C-5s to F-22s (easily) but I would say there are more opportunities to move airframes than 6-9 years ago.  
 

[BADFNZ 344]

5 hours ago, LoveDumpster said:

I love the enthusiasm and the positive attitude, but I haven't really seen this on the tanker side. Unless you're picked up for some special program like Phoenix, you're not being released unless it's to pay UPT bills. I'd love to go fly a strike aircraft or something more tactical, especially after watching those guys rain hate in the sandbox. But from what I understand, if you didn't fly a T-38 in UPT that isn't happening - unless you somehow work a board like said ex-135 driver did. 

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

I left AD this year so I can't give you an up-to-the-minute update on what's happening in any community, but if it were me, and I was a herbivore wanting to fly something that can blow shit up, my conversation would go like this:

Sq/CC:  Hey Maj Snuffy, I know you're coming up on your ADSC.  What are your plans?

Me:  Well sir, I've always wanted to drop bombs and I also love chasing high school girls around the dance floor at country bars, so I'm thinking a B-1 to Dyess would be fun

Sq/CC:  Well, you know I can't get you that.  How about ACSC?  We've run through the primaries, alternates, and the alternates to the alternates, and everyone is declining school.  You'd make a great Sq/CC one day...{checks notes}....Kevin. 

Me:  I'm good sir.  I heard AA is hiring literally 1500 pilots this year and Delta somewhere close to that.  Do they have country bars in Atlanta?

[BashiChuni 1,056]

39 minutes ago, viper154 said:

 I’m currently in a B course after a RPA tour, over the  last 6-9 months I have met probably 6-9 other crossflows dudes, some from RPAs, couple mil to mils, couple dudes just wanted to do something different and asked, couple were voluntold. 

Not saying you can move from C-5s to F-22s (easily) but I would say there are more opportunities to move airframes than 6-9 years ago.  
 

what about 6-9 months ago?

[LookieRookie 248]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

what about 6-9 months ago?

Or 8-7 months ago?

[BashiChuni 1,056]

2 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Or 8-7 months ago?

or 2-5 months ago?

[FLEA 671]

14 hours ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

No, not at all, in fact I think the opposite. To clarify, the ANG/AFRC seem to have a slightly broader aperture for evaluating who they put in leadership positions.To that end, I don’t think having flown a jet outside the one the squadron does is a non-starter, which outside of Phoenix Reach or the like seems to be the case sometimes.

(I came from the guard)

I was listening to Col Sablan, the ABQ wing commander speak once. One thing that struck me when she talked about command hiring was that in the guard or the reserve they will routinely not pick the best qualified. Unlike AD, the reserve component doesn't see a check list of things you do to be a great commander. Instead she argued, they hire based on who the best fit is. For example, a certain O-5 miggt have particular strengths well suited for some problems a squadron is having. He may not have all the fancy schools or diplomas but if those problems are a real issue for that unit and need addressed that O-5 will get picked up for that unit before someone who may appear better qualified would. 

[LookieRookie 248]

53 minutes ago, FLEA said:

I was listening to Col Sablan, the ABQ wing commander speak once. One thing that struck me when she talked about command hiring was that in the guard or the reserve they will routinely not pick the best qualified. Unlike AD, the reserve component doesn't see a check list of things you do to be a great commander. Instead she argued, they hire based on who the best fit is. For example, a certain O-5 miggt have particular strengths well suited for some problems a squadron is having. He may not have all the fancy schools or diplomas but if those problems are a real issue for that unit and need addressed that O-5 will get picked up for that unit before someone who may appear better qualified would. 

Edit: So is the 150 SOW/CC saying that fancy box checking does not actually make the best qualified? 

I ask because her bio makes it seem like she was a DSG at Moffett.

Edited December 29, 2019 by LookieRookie

[LookieRookie 248]

8 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

or 2-5 months ago?

More of a fan of 7-77 months

[FLEA 671]

8 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Edit: So is the 150 SOW/CC saying that fancy box checking does not actually make the best qualified? 

I ask because her bio makes it seem like she was a DSG at Moffett.

Her story was her SFS commander who she hired a pilot for rather than from the SFS candidates. The squadron had some issues and the pilot was a civilian cop (outside the Air Force) who had the right personality type to address said issues. Her point to the masses was that not getting hired for command doesn't necessarily mean you're incapable of wouldn't be able to do it. It just means you weren't the right person for that squadron at that time. 

[LoveDumpster 8]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/07/07/heres-where-the-air-forces-pilot-shortfall-is-the-worst/

Interesting article out of AF Times. 

"The Air Force has consistently been well over-manned among 11M mobility pilots, such as those who fly the Pegasus. In 2015, mobility pilot manning was at 125 percent. As the KC-46 came online, overmanning declined, hitting 108 percent in 2019. Jacobson said the Air Force has over-produced mobility pilots in the past, and is working on re-directing some of them to other pilot categories."

 

Crossflow opening back up for fat boys to go fly other shit? 

[SurelySerious 988]

1 hour ago, LoveDumpster said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/07/07/heres-where-the-air-forces-pilot-shortfall-is-the-worst/

Interesting article out of AF Times. 

"The Air Force has consistently been well over-manned among 11M mobility pilots, such as those who fly the Pegasus. In 2015, mobility pilot manning was at 125 percent. As the KC-46 came online, overmanning declined, hitting 108 percent in 2019. Jacobson said the Air Force has over-produced mobility pilots in the past, and is working on re-directing some of them to other pilot categories."

 

Crossflow opening back up for fat boys to go fly other shit? 

Weird, because AMC doesn’t think they’re overmanned. Believe they recently said something to the effect of “AFPC pound sand we’re done footing the AETC instructor billets.”

[CharlieHotel47 124]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/07/07/heres-where-the-air-forces-pilot-shortfall-is-the-worst/

Interesting article out of AF Times. 

"The Air Force has consistently been well over-manned among 11M mobility pilots, such as those who fly the Pegasus. In 2015, mobility pilot manning was at 125 percent. As the KC-46 came online, overmanning declined, hitting 108 percent in 2019. Jacobson said the Air Force has over-produced mobility pilots in the past, and is working on re-directing some of them to other pilot categories."
 
Crossflow opening back up for fat boys to go fly other shit? 

Crossflow to what? Helos or drones??? Haha but no. Yawn yawn... nothing to see here.


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[pawnman 1,682]

9 hours ago, LoveDumpster said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/07/07/heres-where-the-air-forces-pilot-shortfall-is-the-worst/

Interesting article out of AF Times. 

"The Air Force has consistently been well over-manned among 11M mobility pilots, such as those who fly the Pegasus. In 2015, mobility pilot manning was at 125 percent. As the KC-46 came online, overmanning declined, hitting 108 percent in 2019. Jacobson said the Air Force has over-produced mobility pilots in the past, and is working on re-directing some of them to other pilot categories."

 

Crossflow opening back up for fat boys to go fly other shit? 

Had a few come through the B-1 pipeline.  It's not like there's a magical barrier that prevents a heavy guy from learning to employ weapons.

[YoungnDumb 121]

19 minutes ago, pawnman said:

 It's not like there's a magical barrier that prevents a heavy guy from learning to employ weapons.

Cue the "but they didn't fly T-38's in UPT" discussion/gripe fest...

[pawnman 1,682]

52 minutes ago, YoungnDumb said:

Cue the "but they didn't fly T-38's in UPT" discussion/gripe fest...

Maybe, MAYBE, that's a valid concern for fighters...I don't know, and I don't have a strong opinion about it.

But flying T-1s may actually be better prep for the crew coordination required in a bomber.  None of the bombers are getting into high-g dogfights or flying in fingertip.

[Hawg15 182]

2 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

Cue the "but they didn't fly T-38's in UPT" discussion/gripe fest...

I don’t think people would really care as long as they aren't going to fighters. T-38s don’t teach you how to be tactical, they teach you how to fly a fighter aircraft. I’d be more worried about letting the plethora of AMC Q3 everyone for dumb shit dbags into other communities than what they trained in.

Although I am against letting them in fighters, but its because its a negative return on investment for the fighter squadron. They will be a better pilots from a basic airmanship standpoint than new guys, but not typically in the tactical flying that makes up being a fighter pilot. I’ve seen FAIPs and crosstrain guys (from non fighters) flow through and they are rarely anymore proficient than the LTs at flying outside of the basics. One of the last few classes even had a 1,000hr + FAIP get washed out for tac admin stuff. Then, once they are out in ops, the squadron has a senior capt, in some cases a maj, who is a basic, inexperienced wingman, when I need one that is an IP for all the LTs and junior Capts that will actually remain in ops for the foreseeable future who are waiting for their 2flug, 4flug, FAC, Sandy 4-1, etc. A fighter crosstrain expedites the whole upgrade process significantly and has a much smaller impact.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hawg15

[HuggyU2 2,077]

3 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

Cue the "but they didn't fly T-38's in UPT" discussion/gripe fest...

I can't tell you how many times pilots have told me "I didn't apply to the U-2 because I didn't fly the T-38 in UPT".  

Note: flying the T-38 in UPT is not a pre-req for the U-2.  Off the top of my head, I'd say at least half of the U-2 community went T-1's.  Read the application requirements.  

Edited July 9, 2020 by HuggyU2

[dream big 570]

13 hours ago, LoveDumpster said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/07/07/heres-where-the-air-forces-pilot-shortfall-is-the-worst/

Interesting article out of AF Times. 

"The Air Force has consistently been well over-manned among 11M mobility pilots, such as those who fly the Pegasus. In 2015, mobility pilot manning was at 125 percent. As the KC-46 came online, overmanning declined, hitting 108 percent in 2019. Jacobson said the Air Force has over-produced mobility pilots in the past, and is working on re-directing some of them to other pilot categories."

 

Crossflow opening back up for fat boys to go fly other shit? 

No shit, as a 38 guy who went through during the dark ages, I can only roll my eyes at AFPC’s incompetence at long range planning.  If the Air Force were a business it would be bankrupt. 

[YoungnDumb 121]

20 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I can't tell you how many times pilots have told me "I didn't apply to the U-2 because I didn't fly the T-38 in UPT".  

Note: flying the T-38 in UPT is not a pre-req for the U-2.  Off the top of my head, I'd say at least half of the U-2 community went T-1's.  Read the application requirements.  

That's a shame that they didn't apply, I have several good friends currently flying the U-2, none of which flew 38's.  As a note, I am not saying I agree with the 38 studs should fly X argument, post was more of an eye roll expecting someone to kick off that discussion again.