What's wrong with the Air Force?

[ElLoco]

Copy, however the underlying tone that I always see on this forum is that SNCO's only job in life are to "Chief" Officers and fellow Enlisted about uniform infractions, which is obviously not true. I do agree that some folks need to be reminded where their place is in a military hierarchy and tact when talking to senior ranking individuals. On the flip side it's very frustrating to tell the A1C Boom Operator to wear their uniform correctly when CGO/FGO's that are in our Sq and fly on our crews don't.

The crews I have flown with, O and E alike, have always been good about policing themselves when it comes to this stuff, if for no other reason at times than to avoid harassment. Yet even so...there's still no way to avoid the fly trap of constant stupidity, no matter how hard you try it seems. The example of Bagram in the winter is a perfect one...and everyone has a handful of stories about dumb crap like that they've been chiefed for. Not your only job sure, but a reputation well, WELL earned after years of going completely off the ranch with this stuff.

[Toro]

Copy, however the underlying tone that I always see on this forum is that SNCO's only job in life are to "Chief" Officers and fellow Enlisted about uniform infractions, which is obviously not true. I do agree that some folks need to be reminded where their place is in a military hierarchy and tact when talking to senior ranking individuals. On the flip side it's very frustrating to tell the A1C Boom Operator to wear their uniform correctly when CGO/FGO's that are in our Sq and fly on our crews don't.

In my opinion, the reason for this is the interaction that most operators have with senior NCOs, and more specifically the interaction that most senior NCOs have with operators. Look at the command structure in most wings - your highest officers are the DOs, deputy commanders, and commanders, and your highest NCOs are generally first shirts, superintendents, and command Chiefs. By the nature of their job, the enlisted leadership do not deal with officers, but unfortunately from my experience until the last couple years it also tends to mean they don't interact with them. My entire flying career the only NCOs I dealt with on a working level were the NCOICs of SARM/HARM and life support. Until I was a major I was addressed directly by E-9s only twice; once for acknowledging but not returning an airmen's salute on the flightline (because it's no salute and my gear was in my right hand), and once for having my flight suit sleeves pushed up.

In my last two assignments that has changed significantly, but I put that more specifically on the senior enlisted personnel in those two assignments. The first shirts and chiefs actually get out among the populace to interact rather than solely being a reactive entity and only dealing with enlisted personnel.

So when someone's only interaction with an E-9 is him acting as a uniform nazi, it is understandable why they have that impression.

[Chuck17]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-investigations-point-to-military-system-that-promotes-abusive-leaders/2014/01/28/3e1be1f0-8799-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html?hpid=z4

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. The GO's are batting a thousand this month! At least cutting those numbers will be easier when you have a list of volunteer slappy's like this line up.

Holy hell.

Chuck

[one1]

While our country is at war, we shit all over a 2 star because he yells at his aides, doesn't have official "feedback" sessions, takes leave without using leave web, and takes an AOA indicator from a military aircraft headed to the boneyard. Isn't getting yelled at on a daily basis a form of feedback? How soft is our military getting?

Edited January 29, 2014 by one1

[17D_guy]

While our country is at war, we shit all over a 2 star because he yells at his aides, doesn't have official "feedback" sessions, takes leave without using leave web, and takes an AOA indicator from a military aircraft headed to the boneyard. Isn't getting yelled at on a daily basis a form of feedback? How soft is our military getting?

Not sure if serious...

[Azimuth]

While our country is at war, we shit all over a 2 star because he yells at his aides, doesn't have official "feedback" sessions, takes leave without using leave web, and takes an AOA indicator from a military aircraft headed to the boneyard. Isn't getting yelled at on a daily basis a form of feedback? How soft is our military getting?

If you have to yell at subordinates and make sure to constantly tell everyone you're in charge, then you aren't. It's almost like people expect professionalism and ethics out of a GO.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Azimuth

[justajob]

there is a difference between blowing up when people screw up and blowing up on an hourly/daily basis. I agree, if you fall into the later category then you aren't in charge.

[one1]

Not sure if serious...

Did you read the report?

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/maj-gen-stephen-d-schmidt-report-of-investigation/775/

It pretty much sounded like an asshole boss taking out frustration on his aides by yelling. He sounds like a shitty boss but the IG complaint can be summed up with, " General Schmidt hurt my feelings". One of the IG complaints was that he didn't give him an initial feedback.

If you have to yell at subordinates and make sure to constantly tell everyone you're in charge, then you aren't. It's almost like people expect professionalism and ethics out of a GO.

I completely agree with you.

I have never had a two star yell at me on a daily basis but I really have a hard time believing that I would file an IG complaint against them for hurting my feelings. Don't you normally volunteer to be an aide? From the investigation, it sounded like he always did this behind closed doors. He used his aides as a punching bag. It isn't right but I am not exactly shocked.

Edited January 29, 2014 by one1

[Azimuth]

Apparently when you're a GO you forget about shutting off your phone during crew rest.

[Fuzz]

Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has speculated that the military valued competence over character during wartime, and that it needs to place a higher priority on personal rectitude.

Yeah valuing competence of box checking over leadership and character.

[Liquid]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-investigations-point-to-military-system-that-promotes-abusive-leaders/2014/01/28/3e1be1f0-8799-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html?hpid=z4

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. The GO's are batting a thousand this month! At least cutting those numbers will be easier when you have a list of volunteer slappy's like this line up.

Holy hell.

Chuck

I read the report. All allegations substantiated. This GO sounds like a complete asshole. DoD will show they are serious about fixing this unacceptable culture of toxic, entitled and morally bankrupt GOFOs only when they start firing their bosses for not knowing how shitty they really are. 360 degree feedback can't start soon enough.

[WABoom]

That was a painful read. It does sound like someones feelings were hurt, but it also sounds like this was another out of touch GO. For him to say he didn't know rules concerning leave, that it was his execs duty to bring it to his attention, is retarded.

[pawnman]

I read the report. All allegations substantiated. This GO sounds like a complete asshole. DoD will show they are serious about fixing this unacceptable culture of toxic, entitled and morally bankrupt GOFOs only when they start firing their bosses for not knowing how shitty they really are. 360 degree feedback can't start soon enough.

Can't wait. In the mean time, we'll crack down on CGOs, because we know that's the root of the problem.

[ThreeHoler]

Wow. I flew with Schmidt in the T-1 when he was the Wg/CC at CBM. It was a good out and back...although, the RAPCON/tower guys were a little flustered when Blaze 01 showed up VFR back at the field.

He was down to earth and pretty humble back then in my limited experience. I wonder what changed?

[Bender]

Do we have so many GO billets that we can't find individuals with both competence and character? While I think there are too many billets, it may be more of an issue in how GOs are selected in the first place. I'm sure focusing more on "character" will break the problem out into a nice neat measureable metric that will nip this quick.

Clearly expectations need to be set, it's unfair to change expectation midstream. If it is clear that the exec must remind the general to wipe his ass when he finishes pooping, then the exec should remind the general to wipe his ass when he walks out of the office stating he's on his way to take a massive dook. If he doesn't, well...he's not really a very good exec.

I kid, kind of...regardless, no one deserves to be treated poorly. Especially by someone that is about as vetted by the military system as they can be. This (and the numerous other examples) are a horrendous disgrace and direct reflection on huge systemic issues that need to be addressed (even if at the expense of short-term morale moves).

Bendy

EDIT: Never mind...This person did not complete IDE or SDE in-residence. Clearly an outlier here, an especially strange occurrence as well, since the SOS DG really should have help pull through all of these troubles. Seriously though: "B-52 co-pilot, standardization and evaluation instructor copilot"...come on now....is that a real thing? A B-52 Stand/Eval Instructor Co-pilot? Is someone fucking pullin' my leg and shitting in my cheerios at the same time right now? That is a wicked cool ass duty title, I would have known right then this one was destined for the stars.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Bender

[Breckey]

It was a good out and back...although, the RAPCON/tower guys were a little flustered when Blaze 01 showed up VFR back at the field.

Stupidest motto/callsign ever. A UPT class made a Friday patch saying that they "BLAZEd every day" Some of them must have gone on to be missileers.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Breckey

[Rusty Pipes]

Wow. I flew with Schmidt in the T-1 when he was the Wg/CC at CBM. It was a good out and back...although, the RAPCON/tower guys were a little flustered when Blaze 01 showed up VFR back at the field.

He was down to earth and pretty humble back then in my limited experience. I wonder what changed?

This guy spoke for about 20 mins at our Graduation Dinner at CBM as the Wing CC and used the term "ultimate sacrifice" at least a half dozen times. It was 2002 and the audience is filled with parents, grandparents, wives, girlfriends, young children... and this ass clown is talking about how he's sending us off to war and how some of us will likely give the "ultimate sacrifice"... over and over and over again! There were a few people actually crying! My brother was sitting next no me and we were laughing our asses off just because it was so ridiculous; my brother (who is not military) says, "Is this guy fucking serious saying this shit to everyone's wives and parents?" I don't ever remember hearing anything bad about him at the time, but that was pretty bad for Graduation Dinner comments.

[BitteEinBit]

Do we have so many GO billets that we can't find individuals with both competence and character? While I think there are too many billets, it may be more of an issue in how GOs are selected in the first place. I'm sure focusing more on "character" will break the problem out into a nice neat measureable metric that will nip this quick.

I kid, kind of...regardless, no one deserves to be treated poorly. Especially by someone that is about as vetted by the military system as they can be. This (and the numerous other examples) are a horrendous disgrace and direct reflection on huge systemic issues that need to be addressed (even if at the expense of short-term morale moves).

This is the shit we talk about all the time. The shit the AF thinks is important for a future leader (I won't spell them out...again) only gets you so far...eventually you have to learn to connect with people to REALLY lead them! That means more than just managing spreadsheets and virtual commanders calls via e-mail. Connect with your people so that you don't have to yell at them to motivate them to work for you. I think this is only the beginning...we have 10 years of promoting douchebags with no character or personality, and they keep continuing to rise through the ranks. I don't know the guy, but I know his type. These kinds of guys are power hungry and just don't know how to use it once they get there. They have no character so they lead by fear knowing that most everyone will at least respect their rank if not the person. How do we keep promoting these guys?

On the other hand, we are bringing in a new batch of "Generation ME" people who don't respect rank as much, so now not only do they not respect the person or the rank, they are also sensitive and easily offended. This means future leaders are going to have to be charismatic, have personalities, and actually connect with their people beyond the spreadsheet. MOST GOs I've met are very charismatic and are generally easy to talk to, especially while they're playing politics to get that next star....but somehow we sometimes let douchebags with no personality get through.

I'll say it again, there are some great managers out there who are smart and know how to work politics and get things to help the organization. We need those people in senior positions...we just need to keep them behind the scenes and don't let the attempt to lead or interact with people. All my opinion of course...with a little malt beverage spin...

[17D_guy]

I'll say it again, there are some great managers out there who are smart and know how to work politics and get things to help the organization. We need those people in senior positions...we just need to keep them behind the scenes and don't let the attempt to lead or interact with people. All my opinion of course...with a little malt beverage spin...

Like a Chief of Staff, or Deputy/Vice? I agree with most everything you said, but wonder where we would hide those people behind the "leaders" and not undermine the leaders in today's military. I think you could have done something like this in the past with the army of aides that a leader could have. But today that doesn't seem feasible to me with the lust for power many of those types have/promote.

[addict]

Stupidest motto/callsign ever. A UPT class made a Friday patch saying that they "BLAZEd every day" Some of them must have gone on to be missileers.

ummmm thumbnails?

Edited January 31, 2014 by addict

[raimius]

I'll say it again, there are some great managers out there who are smart and know how to work politics and get things to help the organization. We need those people in senior positions...we just need to keep them behind the scenes and don't let the attempt to lead or interact with people. All my opinion of course...with a little malt beverage spin...

Yeah, it'd be nice if we could fit the administrators and managers into those positions, and find leaders for leadership. Not an easy thing though.

The AF has a real desire to groom everyone for CSAF until they don't make the cut or check the right boxes, for some reason.

[Skitzo]

Good leadership can fix management problems. Good management can fix management problems. Good management cannot fix leadership problems.

Sadly, I cannot think of many aspects of this job where leadership is at play. I can think of a few, maybe two commanders that I have worked for have been true leaders and managers. They managed efficiently enough to make time to lead. I would follow these guys anywhere.

The other commanders I've seen don't truly have a chance to lead, they are too busy managing the shit that is rolling down hill. Heck, for half the time I've been in AFSOC either the CC or the DO have been deployed at the same time with 50% of the squadron home, and 50% gone. I'm not saying that all of these guys wouldn't be excellent leaders, they just aren't set up for success.

If World War III kicked off tomorrow no one would care what ADLS course you didn't complete. No one would care that you missed your semi annual training by one ILS and those going overdue would get a waiver instead of paperwork. The commander and others would actually lead and manage the fighting force. The mission and not the queep would take priority. I know of a guy who went overdue on the chamber while deployed. The solution was rapid airlift to the nearest chamber to complete training. You have to be kidding me; what is the intent behind the time limit? It's to make sure that we all get that training within a predetermined timeframe because symptoms of hypoxia change over time. It's not to cause the situation I just described.

Queep: When the time/resources/difficulty of accomplishing a given task is disproportionate to the value gained. I don't care if it is congressionally mandated training, if it is queep and congressionally mandated it is probably CYA reactionary BS.

I guess my point if any of all of this rambling diatribe it would be this: there is way to much bull to manage to even identify who is an effective leader for the average officer. So we continue with the system we have. We have awesome leaders and we have shitty leaders. We don't place a premium on leadership in the active duty operational world. The proof of that is flushing every bit of doctrine we learn in PME when it is convenient to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I love my job and I love the things I have done, I still have more love for it than to leave it, but that's just me. What can I say, I grew up in a dysfunctional family, so the Air Force fits me like a glove.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Skitzo

[C-21.Pilot]

I think the "Blazed and Confused" patch is pretty phuckin clever….

That is, unless you have no idea to the origins.

[HossHarris]

I was at CBM when blaze was unveiled. That coont was awful.

[pbar]

I was reading the Best Defense blog and a guy on there had a brillant idea to fix all of the general officer issues the military has been having. Simply this- if a flag gets fired for crimminal acts such as fraud, sexual harassment, etc. then not only does the flag get fired, the service also loses that flag officer billet. That simple fix would finally motivate the services to do a much better job at screening and oversight.