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2 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

We have camaraderie.  We get our families together for squadron activities and parties all the time.  It's just that Monday-Friday after work I like to go home to, you know, my family and stuff.  Nobody wants to hang out at a bar drinking after work for no good reason.

Not having stupid drinking games in the squadron is definitely not what is wrong with the MAF.

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Never seen a SP naming during my time at Vance, think it may be more of a Laughlin thing.

Had one in both phase 2 and 3 at Vance.

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11 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Besides...how would you schedule something like that since at least 1/3rd of the squadron is gone any given day.

You simply schedule with for the 67% that are there.  Same way we do it in the U-2, where the 99 RS been deployed non-stop to the Arabian Peninsula since Saddam invaded in 1990; Osan for over 40 years; and our other location for over 40 years.  Yes, continually to all three locations, simultaneously.  

If an event like a Naming is well done, people will show up and have a great time.  

 

As alluded to, "namings" may not fit a particular squadron or mission culture.  And one thing to note is that, in my conversations with U-2 pilots older than me, they didn't have callsigns... much less "naming ceremonies"... in earlier years.  This includes guys that came out of pointy-nosed jets in the Vietnam era.  

To digress into a historical context... I went through UPT in '85-'86, there was definitely no naming ceremony at Laughlin back then and very few IP's had a callsign.  I was an exception since "Huggy" had been what people called me since middle school.  One example, the current AF Vice Chief of Staff General Steve 'Seve' Wilson was a young FAIP in the squadron then, and I'm guessing he got his callsign after he went to the B-1.  

I only recall a handful of MWS guys coming back to ATC/AETC with a callsign during my FAIP years (86-89).  One of the few I recall was a guy named "Buc" due to using the BUC Start on an F-16 that lit off at less than 100' AGL.  Cowboy Keck (F-4, F-15) was another... but those that know Cowboy can probably assume he was given that callsign in the womb.  

When I arrived at RAF Alconbury in 1990, there were two A-10 squadrons there and a fair number of those guys had callsigns.  I have no idea if they had big naming ceremonies (I've posed the question to a couple of old A-10 guys I know), but callsigns were certainly established.  

I would guess that actual naming ceremonies in fighter squadrons began to occur a little before my time (circa 1982)... but that's just my impression from talking to old-heads.  The bottom line is that "naming ceremonies" are a relatively recent addition to the USAF pilot culture.  Personally, I think they are a great thing and I've had a great time participating in them during my time.  

There's probably a great story about "the history of namings" that some academic at Air University should write a paper on, using lots of taxpayer dollars to research it.  

Edited by HuggyU2
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I grew up in the Herk and had a nickname I was given at Nav school. Really only used by the guys I played softball with, but carried it thru UPT and beyond. Wasn’t given an official callsign until we switched to MQ-9s and I was a Lt Col. Now everyone knows me by my callsign. It’s all about your community.


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People don’t have fun in the MAF because it’s run by Chiefs, wanna-be Chiefs, support officers, and some rated guys that pander to all of the above. Life in garrison is dominated by bureaucrat queep and non-support, so any fun doesn’t start until you’re at least 69 tacans away from the MOB, and only then if you have a good crew.

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

When I was there, the thought of Travis AFB, and by extension its AD flying squadrons, generated a near-Pavlovian wretching action associated with non-stop, no-gain bureaucratic queep churn. There was no squadron morale, and certainly no desire to hang out for any amount of time in the building when the emails slowed down enough to allow it.

The U-2 is a complete 180 from that. The MOB is fun, FOLs even more so, the flying is rewarding and fun, and the work is all to make things actually better.

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6 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. 

 

Had a sqd cc say something similar to me once. I looked at him like he had a dick growing from his forehead. 

And they wonder why pilots go find other work.   

 

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9 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

People don’t have fun in the MAF because it’s run by Chiefs, wanna-be Chiefs, support officers, and some rated guys that pander to all of the above. Life in garrison is dominated by bureaucrat queep and non-support, so any fun doesn’t start until you’re at least 69 tacans away from the MOB, and only then if you have a good crew.

That wasn't my experience at all. I had tons of epic fun trips with great crews, even more fun experiences at home, and never wrote any bullets or did any of that crap when I was on the road. But then again, you probably got good strats, awards, and PME opportunities. We all make our choices in life, I guess.

 

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6 hours ago, joe1234 said:

That wasn't my experience at all. I had tons of epic fun trips with great crews, even more fun experiences at home, and never wrote any bullets or did any of that crap when I was on the road. But then again, you probably got good strats, awards, and PME opportunities. We all make our choices in life, I guess.

I’m not sure you got the gist of my post.

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23 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

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On 12/21/2018 at 10:59 PM, LiquidSky said:

Seriously?

"The report said an absence of wing leadership contributed to the officer misconduct. It singles out Velino, who took command of the 47th, for being on TDY for 135 days during his first six months, or about 73 percent of the time. That included 128 days at Pilot Instructor Training at Joint Base San Antonio-Randolph, the report said."

Other parts of the report aside it turns out being on a mandatory TDY in order to do your job is wrong. 

What I'm sure the report doesn't mention is that the fired OG/CC banned alcohol from flight rooms for IPs and SPs months ago. Just like with the 69 BS/CC, not like he didn't try to do something. Sounds like there's much more to the firings though.

As for the enlisted perspective on drinking, they probably witnessed mostly drop night shenanigans. Easy to jump to conclusions based on that.

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20 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

If you play into that game it’s your fault.

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1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

This. The SMAFIA has managed to hijack way too much power/influence in the RW world there serious negative effects that go along with it.some of the bros are trying to fix it but they don't even know where to start.

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5 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

I’m not sure you got the gist of my post.

What's there to get? You extrapolated your personal bad experiences at Travis into being a MAF-wide problem, and how life is better being in U-2's. Which, I'm sure your new life is a great experience and all, but the problem was never the MAF, it was your priorities. I somehow managed to exist in the same MAF as you, at the same time, and had a much different experience. Because I had different priorities.

It reminds me of the dudes who choose career over family and then bitch and then complain about how the Air Force ruined their marriage and estranged them from their kids. Like, no dude, that's your own damn fault.

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21 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

People don’t have fun in the MAF because it’s run by Chiefs, wanna-be Chiefs, support officers, and some rated guys that pander to all of the above. Life in garrison is dominated by bureaucrat queep and non-support, so any fun doesn’t start until you’re at least 69 tacans away from the MOB, and only then if you have a good crew.

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

When I was there, the thought of Travis AFB, and by extension its AD flying squadrons, generated a near-Pavlovian wretching action associated with non-stop, no-gain bureaucratic queep churn. There was no squadron morale, and certainly no desire to hang out for any amount of time in the building when the emails slowed down enough to allow it.

The U-2 is a complete 180 from that. The MOB is fun, FOLs even more so, the flying is rewarding and fun, and the work is all to make things actually better.

 

9 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

What's there to get? You extrapolated your personal bad experiences at Travis into being a MAF-wide problem, and how life is better being in U-2's. Which, I'm sure your new life is a great experience and all, but the problem was never the MAF, it was your priorities. I somehow managed to exist in the same MAF as you, at the same time, and had a much different experience. Because I had different priorities.

It reminds me of the dudes who choose career over family and then bitch and then complain about how the Air Force ruined their marriage and estranged them from their kids. Like, no dude, that's your own damn fault.

 

1 hour ago, Standby said:

If you play into that game it’s your fault.

This is a good discussion and worth highlighting for any youngins reading.  

First off:  it is douchey for a boss to expect crew members TDY to work their queep while on the road.  To expect that is an admission that you either can't manage suspenses or you've placed too much responsibility on one individual. 

If you find yourself in a situation where you're expected to work office stuff while TDY, you have a choice.  Like Standby and Joe have said, if you agree to do so, you do so willingly.  You have a choice.  You're not going to receive paperwork or something for being TDY and not working an awards package/OPR/etc.  But choosing to do so could mean "punishment" in the form of your douche boss (that we can all agree shouldn't be asking in the first place) not "pushing" you for jobs/strats/awards, etc.  Nothing you can do to stop that, and it will have effects down the road if you're interesting in making a career out of the AD AF.  On the other hand, if you're trying to advance in rank/position for whatever reason, and you have a douche boss that asks you to work office stuff while on the road, you'll probably keep yourself in the running by doing so.  Again, as Standby and Joe said, you do forfeit any reasonable right to complain when you knowingly participate.

The good news is that crew dogs are in a buyers' market right now.  You are all but guaranteed to make O-4 these days as long as you have no derogatory info in your records, and that should take you to your UPT ADSC.  You can fly the shit out of your aircraft and push this stuff off and not have much to worry about, especially if you plan to get out anyway.  

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Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.


Was it not an enlisted SARM troop that effectively caused the cleansing of every flying squadron several years ago?
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33 minutes ago, Champ Kind said:


Was it not an enlisted SARM troop that effectively caused the cleansing of every flying squadron the entire USAF several years ago?

 

FIFY.

FWIW, I wouldn't say that Jennifer Smith "caused" any of the shenanigans.  She has whatever right to complain about whatever she wants to complain about.

It is the spineless senior AF leadership that capitulated to the demands of the PC warriors that caused The Purge.  They could have just as easily responded to TSgt Smith's Congressional complaint differently (although it would have required a warrior fortitude to over-ride the political pressures), and it wouldn't have happened at all.

That same group fails to understand that they, even today, hold all the power to fix the trajectory of the AF toward the ditch.

But, hey, if Mark Welsh says that his dad never sang dirty songs, and that means there's no historical tradition of it, then I guess we can just disregard these 50 years worth of songbooks I have copies of and flush heritage down the toilet at the altar of social justice.

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1 hour ago, Champ Kind said:

 


Was it not an enlisted SARM troop that effectively caused the cleansing of every flying squadron several years ago?

 

Enlisted Aircrew have about as much in common with a SARM troop as a fighter pilot does with a Force Support Officer.

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4 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

Same thing could be said of having enlisted patches. But now we have them in multiple communities. I don’t see namings happening in the MAF for other reasons besides enlisted aircrew, primarily it’s not part of the culture or heritage of them.  

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Enlisted Aircrew have about as much in common with a SARM troop as a fighter pilot does with a Force Support Officer.

 

You missed my point. Or maybe I missed his. Merry Christmas.

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3 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Why’s that?

A good one would break more fraternization rules than are in the book.  A bad naming nobody would go to, figure it out, it isn’t that hard.

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Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

Senior enlisted aircrew is a big problem in a lot of communities.

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4 hours ago, cragspider said:

Same thing could be said of having enlisted patches. But now we have them in multiple communities. I don’t see namings happening in the MAF for other reasons besides enlisted aircrew, primarily it’s not part of the culture or heritage of them.  

Big Blue does not care about heritage. Unless it involves a new uniform. Then they will be All In

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4 hours ago, Guardian said:


Senior enlisted aircrew is a big problem in a lot of communities.

I flew the MC-12 for 13 months... and the rampant enlisted aircrew that felt they were in change (and leadership that didn't fix it) helped make that a shitty assignment.   Of course, there was plenty of other things in the MC-12 that were FUBAR.  

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