Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[Prosuper]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:45 AM, HeloDude said:

This doesn’t really sound like much of a “democracy” to me.  
 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/zelensky-suspends-opposition-parties-in-ukraine-with-russia-ties/

Our own history during the Civil War when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus between DC and Philly and he shut down over 300 newspapers. 

[HeloDude]

23 minutes ago, Prosuper said:

Our own history during the Civil War when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus between DC and Philly and he shut down over 300 newspapers. 

Oh don’t get me started on Lincoln…

I grew up in midwest and was basically taught that he was a saint.  He was very tyrannical.  I remember 10 years ago when conservatives said Obama was the most tyrannical president we ever had and then bragged how great Lincoln was.  Likewise progressives will tell you that Trump was literally Hitler and then brag about we need another FDR…who literally put American citizens in prison camps because of their ethnic background.

This whole binary way of thinking is how we keep getting crap—crap politicians, crap policies, you name it.  Don’t excuse bad behavior or bad policy just because X person/party is not as bad as Y person/party.

[brickhistory]

I have GOT to get me a prescription for condescension.  My over-the-counter stuff ain't hacking it here.  Arguments are emotional, silly, false, etc, etc. 

Or so I'm told.

Could be my opinion is just as valid as any other.

Or I could just be lectured by my betters...

 

ENDEX for me:  I hope Ukraine continues to stack Russian corpses deep.  I am sorry for the misery they are enduring as a result.  I hope the rest of the world continues tossing weapons over the border to 'em.

I hope we don't get involved in a shooting war.

Especially one that escalates.

Without a valid reason that is worth the lives of our side - military or civilian.

[MCO]

26 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

I have GOT to get me a prescription for condescension.  My over-the-counter stuff ain't hacking it here.  Arguments are emotional, silly, false, etc, etc. 

Or so I'm told.

Could be my opinion is just as valid as any other.

Or I could just be lectured by my betters...

 

ENDEX for me:  I hope Ukraine continues to stack Russian corpses deep.  I am sorry for the misery they are enduring as a result.  I hope the rest of the world continues tossing weapons over the border to 'em.

I hope we don't get involved in a shooting war.

Especially one that escalates.

Without a valid reason that is worth the lives of our side - military or civilian.

The problem is, and the driving force behind all these arguments, is none of us agree on what makes a reason valid.

[kaputt]

How about some more videos of Ukrainians stacking Russians? 

[DirkDiggler]

11 hours ago, kaputt said:

How about some more videos of Ukrainians stacking Russians? 

As requested.

[FLEA]

Really good thoughts in this article: 

Niall Ferguson: Putin and Biden Misunderstand History in Ukraine War - Bloomberg

Don't 100% agree with everything but there are certainly considerations in here worth holding on to. 

[GrndPndr]

16 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Oh don’t get me started on Lincoln…

<snip>

This whole binary way of thinking is how we keep getting crap—crap politicians, crap policies, you name it.  Don’t excuse bad behavior or bad policy just because X person/party is not as bad as Y person/party.

Yes, but the media has to have drama to survive, it's how they continue to operate.  Are you saying that some of the media (who can't hack it) should go out of business?  Why, that would be a terrible thing indeed, reporters on the street, cats and dogs mating in back alleyways.  Uh, maybe that was reporters and dogs....

[fire4effect]

4 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

As requested.

Crispy Critters. Took me a bit to see the actual track of the missile from the upper right

Edited March 22, 2022 by fire4effect

[Lawman]

Ok…

I think we need to restructure our OPFOR plan.





I can imagine a lot of situations where we’d be scraping together mixed units of national guard weekend warrior types trying to reconstitute stuff in a hurry….

In none of those scenarios do I foresee us breaking into armories full of WWII stocks of small arms and equipment.


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[viper154]

39 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Ok…

I think we need to restructure our OPFOR plan.





I can imagine a lot of situations where we’d be scraping together mixed units of national guard weekend warrior types trying to reconstitute stuff in a hurry….

In none of those scenarios do I foresee us breaking into armories full of WWII stocks of small arms and equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would trade the M9 for a 1911 all day every day. 

[Prosuper]

44 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Ok…

I think we need to restructure our OPFOR plan.





I can imagine a lot of situations where we’d be scraping together mixed units of national guard weekend warrior types trying to reconstitute stuff in a hurry….

In none of those scenarios do I foresee us breaking into armories full of WWII stocks of small arms and equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our old M-1 Garands and M-14's can still lay down some effective cover fire. But with those guys most likely have not spent a bunch of time on the range with those. At the way things are going the Russian Army doesn't seem to have much training and or trigger time; learning everything the hard way.

[McJay Pilot]

Speaking of old equipment:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-sending-soviet-air-defense-systems-it-secretly-acquired-to-ukraine-11647878422
 

Makes sense. I wonder if we’ve tweaked them at all once we got all the testing/data we needed or if they’re still “factory” defaults.

[fire4effect]

Up to 40,000 Russian soldiers killed, wounded, captured or MIA in Ukraine, NATO estimates (msn.com)

Damn. If this is even close to true there's no way Russia can sustain this for long. Eventually word gets back to the families what's happening.

[fire4effect]

10 minutes ago, McJay Pilot said:

Speaking of old equipment:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-sending-soviet-air-defense-systems-it-secretly-acquired-to-ukraine-11647878422
 

 

This so pisses me off. I don't want my opponents to know what or how much I have until it flies up his A$$. Same for the numbers of Javelins etc. Ivan can count them by numbers of vehicles destroyed. Press thinks they can print anything.

[Lord Ratner]

Sam Harris, who I often disagree with, had a good podcast about why this all matters to the West.

 

The economic repercussions that will follow a regression in the world order, one where every country has to dedicate huge amounts of money to defense instead of social programs, healthcare, research, education, production, etc, will be devastating. Considering the millennial and gen z generations will already have to pay the bill for the ridiculous Keynesian spending of the Boomers and the financial-markets-fuckery of Gen X, it'll be a pretty hard hit to also have to fund the next world-wide rearmament.

 

 

[Guardian]

Good. We could use some cuts in some programs.

[ecugringo]

NATO estimates Russian casualties at 40k with 7k-15k KIA.  Crazy!  Thats more losses than the US suffered at IWO Jima.

[waveshaper]

Ukraine Strikes Russia’s Alligator Class LST With Ballistic Missile

The Ballistic missile/s used by the Ukrainian forces in this attack is possibly the OTR-21 Tochka A.K.A. SS-21 Scarab model A, B, or C -TBD. The Video (long video) shows one Russian Navy ship on fire with numerous secondary explosions, shore depot on fire, and two other Russian navy ships bugging out of the port and they both appear to be on fire.

Ukraine strikes Russia's Alligator class LST with ballistic missile - Naval News

 

[hindsight2020]

Well, that's two big expensive pieces of hardware now sitting in the bottom of the black sea, for Putin's little 72 hour field trip he had planned. When keepin' it real...goes wrong.

*Gleefully whistles Randy Dandy Oh! under breath* 😆

Slava Ukraini.

[ClearedHot]

US, allies consider providing anti-ship missiles to Ukraine

This won't escalate things...

[fire4effect]

24 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

US, allies consider providing anti-ship missiles to Ukraine

This won't escalate things...

Nope, not at all.😲 As long as he has troops all over Ukraine I'm slightly less worried about WMD use. When/if he starts a large scale "pullout" sts there's no telling if he's really throwing in the towel or planning on smoking the place. Pay attention to the weather forecast for days the wind is blowing away from Russia.

Edited March 24, 2022 by fire4effect

[hockeydork]

23 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

US, allies consider providing anti-ship missiles to Ukraine

This won't escalate things...

Will it? Putin won't leave without leveling the place in a temper tantrum to save his ego anyways. The West will be the ones who end up footing the bill and donating money to help rebuild the place. Small price to pay for the Ukrainians shedding blood to fend off the Russians. As sad as it is, the US spent years and trillions on weapons preparing to fight the Russians, and now somebody else is doing it for us. 

Least we can do is let them try and send the Black Sea fleet to the sea floor. Tragic, but I have seen enough of cruise missiles smashing into random apartment complexes. I'm sure we have some dusty harpoons that we're gunna be scrapped anyways. Light em up. 

[ClearedHot]

He needs an off ramp, I don't think he will accept a complete defeat and his situation in Ukraine is looking more dire by the day.  While the newly delivered S300s won't given the Ukrainians Air Superiority, it will make it more difficult to conduct combined arms operations.  The Anti-ship missiles will complicate some of his resupply to southern forces.  The artillery and rocket attacks have leveled some Ukrainian cities but he has used up a LOT of weapons.  While the loss of five Russian general officers is not profound there are other reports indicating high losses at the O-6 level.  In one notable case a Russian Colonel commanding an Armored brigade was knifed to death by his own troops after refusing to call off an attack.  His unit lost had already lost 30% of its force and the younger soldiers confronted and ultimately attacked him.

I want the Ukrainians to win, but I fear if this starts to go way south for Russia he will escalate to a tactical nuke or chemical weapons because he has no other choice to avoid complete defeat.

Given that he has started to purge commanders and folks closer to his circle I would say the chances of someone internal to Russia taking him out have also increased. 

[hockeydork]

17 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

He needs an off ramp, 

My understanding is we're calling and they aren't picking up the phone? Not sure how accurate that is. Unfortunately he doubled down, and this exactly what happens when you double down, you can double lose. 

19 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

but I fear if this starts to go way south for Russia he will escalate to a tactical nuke or chemical weapons because he has no other choice to avoid complete defeat.

Given that he has started to purge commanders and folks closer to his circle I would say the chances of someone internal to Russia taking him out have also increased. 

I guess that ship sailed for me. He is going to be completely defeated at least in terms of what he actually wanted to achieve, he is going to be humiliated, he is going to be shamed and shunned, and he is likely to get offed by his own. Minus a couple people on here who think that the West should keep trading with Russia because "its in the economic interests of the US", the vast majority want nothing to do with Russia unless the government is changed. Trust = blown. It's done, no going back. 

I have accepted that we should be looking into mitigating the use tac nukes or chemical weapons via force we can transfer to the Ukrainian's, and be prepared for their employment. If he is considering using them, nothing is going to change that now. Let's hope that units says "no thanks" when the order is given. 

29 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

 a Russian Colonel commanding an Armored brigade was knifed to death by his own troops after refusing to call off an attack.  His unit lost had already lost 30% of its force and the younger soldiers confronted and ultimately attacked him.

 

Good for them. That's what happens when you send young Russian kids to die for nothing. The Ukrainian's have Mel on their side, the Russians, do not.